Bullet seating inconsistency

ncrypt · January 13, 2014, 05:57 AM

I have a Lee Classic Turret which I really like, but one thing that drives me crazy is the inconsistent bullet seating depths. I seat my bullets to the middle of the cannelure so it's easy to see when there is change. It ranges from .005 -010 of an inch.

I took the die apart and cleaned it, but it's a pretty simple design. I will say that Lee could certainly do a better job on machining for sure, but you get what you pay for. The die is adjusted 1/4 turn or so past hitting the shell holder so it takes up any play in the turret.

I did measure many bullets using the seating pin (fits over the bullet tip) and they all are within a couple thousandths of an inch of each other. Pretty consistent.

I do use mixed headstamps but all case lengths are to specs.

Does anyone else have this problem? If so what can be done?

4runnerman · January 13, 2014, 07:12 AM

When you say case lengths are to specs. Does that mean all are trimmed to the same length or just within specs?.

Bart B. · January 13, 2014, 07:17 AM

Your situation is often the issue when the bullet making company's cannelure machine doesn't put that in exactly the same place for each bullet. Depending on the quality of the machine and how repeatable each bullet gets positioned and held as it spins under the knurling head, that cannelure will be a few to several thousandths distance from the base or some point on the bullet's ogive. Such is life with cannelured bullets. Cannelured bullets were never intended to be "match grade" perfect across a given production lot.

As 4runnerman says, case length spreads will also have an effect as to where the case mouth edge is relative to the cannelure. As will tiny differences in the bullet's ogive shape from bullet to bullet.

Real Gun · January 13, 2014, 07:29 AM

See if the seating plug shape is compatible with the bullet nose shape. Check your alternatives for seater plugs.

steve4102 · January 13, 2014, 07:39 AM

What cartridge are you loading for?

What are you case lengths?

What bullet are you loading?

What Lee Seating die do you have, they make two different models?

Jeff2131 · January 13, 2014, 12:59 PM

Just out of curiousity, has anyone ever attempted modifiying the press arm with a "stop" of some type to limit the stroke? I use a single stage so i dont know if this would be useful for a turret or progressive.

Sevens · January 13, 2014, 01:37 PM

Without more information, there's a definite possibility that there is genuinely nothing wrong here and nothing to be fixed except your perception of what's happening.

If we're talking a bottle neck rifle round, and you happen to be loading soft-point lead-tipped rifle bullets, those tips all on their own can vary the seating depth you are witnessing. That's why folks buy bullet comparators. And this assuming that you've not only trimmed all your bottle neck rifle brass, but that you've done it consistently and AFTER you've sized that brass.

If we're talking about a handgun round here then there's almost NO CHANCE that you don't simply have varying case lengths unless you happen to be one of the very small percentage of folks who are trimming their handgun brass. (to be sure, if you are attempting to build the very best revolver rounds you can make, trimming your revolver brass is a key part of it... but for the "average" use and typical moderate to high volume handgun shooter, it's a low-reward activity with a lot of time and work invested for little tangible payoff)

So let's get some more information about what you are seeing, how you are measuring this inconsistency and what may be causing it and whether or not this is a problem that needs to be fixed.

ncrypt · January 13, 2014, 07:09 PM

thanks for the responses.

I'm reloading 308
Case Lengths are 2 .015
Hornady 150 BTFMJ
The die is the Dead Length Bullet Seating Die

The case length was the first thing I looked at and that does make the cannelure noticeably different, but that's not the issue here.

When the cases are the same length and I notice a difference in the cannelure, I measure the overal length and it's typically longer or shorter.

I know the bullets are not always exact and it sounds like the cannelure is sometimes off. Maybe that's the answer.

When I get a chance, I think I'll take out the plug and put it on the end of each loaded round and measure overall length. This should be more precise since its basically using the ogive.

REALGUN - The plug is compatible, but it's poorly machined on the inside. You can see ridges from the bit when it was machined. I could put the plug in my drill press and go to town with light sandpaper and steel wool.

thanks again

Here is a pic:

Looking at the design, The plug basically slides up inside the adjuster until it hits the top. The inside of the adjuster is poorly machined and not polished as well.

cdoc42 · January 13, 2014, 09:04 PM

I see subtle changes in seating depth when I have resized cases with various reloaded history The case neck/mouth might be slightly thicker due to brass flow despite trimming to length, chamfer and deburring. I can virtually predict which cartridge will be longer by the feel when I seat the bullet in what I suspect was a thicker case (after seating it).

How full is the case with powder? If up to the base of the neck in one case and slightly higher in the next just due to variability of delivery in the drop tube, that bit of powder resistance to bullet seating can give you a longer bullet.

Re: cannelure: I had Hornady .270 bullets in 150gr some years ago that were replaced by a newer version with the cannelure CLEARLY in a different position. I wrote to Hornady and suggested they note this on the box in the future just in case there are reloaders who do not seat using a comparator but use the cannelure as their seat target. I assume they got the message but I never received a reply.

January 13, 2014, 05:57 AM	#1
ncrypt Member Join Date: December 3, 2013 Posts: 72	Bullet seating inconsistency I have a Lee Classic Turret which I really like, but one thing that drives me crazy is the inconsistent bullet seating depths. I seat my bullets to the middle of the cannelure so it's easy to see when there is change. It ranges from .005 -010 of an inch. I took the die apart and cleaned it, but it's a pretty simple design. I will say that Lee could certainly do a better job on machining for sure, but you get what you pay for. The die is adjusted 1/4 turn or so past hitting the shell holder so it takes up any play in the turret. I did measure many bullets using the seating pin (fits over the bullet tip) and they all are within a couple thousandths of an inch of each other. Pretty consistent. I do use mixed headstamps but all case lengths are to specs. Does anyone else have this problem? If so what can be done? Last edited by ncrypt; January 13, 2014 at 06:06 AM.

January 13, 2014, 07:12 AM	#2
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	When you say case lengths are to specs. Does that mean all are trimmed to the same length or just within specs?. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

January 13, 2014, 12:59 PM	#6
Jeff2131 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Spring City, PA Posts: 497	Just out of curiousity, has anyone ever attempted modifiying the press arm with a "stop" of some type to limit the stroke? I use a single stage so i dont know if this would be useful for a turret or progressive. __________________ ---I DON'T DIAL 911---

January 13, 2014, 01:37 PM	#7
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Without more information, there's a definite possibility that there is genuinely nothing wrong here and nothing to be fixed except your perception of what's happening. If we're talking a bottle neck rifle round, and you happen to be loading soft-point lead-tipped rifle bullets, those tips all on their own can vary the seating depth you are witnessing. That's why folks buy bullet comparators. And this assuming that you've not only trimmed all your bottle neck rifle brass, but that you've done it consistently and AFTER you've sized that brass. If we're talking about a handgun round here then there's almost NO CHANCE that you don't simply have varying case lengths unless you happen to be one of the very small percentage of folks who are trimming their handgun brass. (to be sure, if you are attempting to build the very best revolver rounds you can make, trimming your revolver brass is a key part of it... but for the "average" use and typical moderate to high volume handgun shooter, it's a low-reward activity with a lot of time and work invested for little tangible payoff) So let's get some more information about what you are seeing, how you are measuring this inconsistency and what may be causing it and whether or not this is a problem that needs to be fixed. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 13, 2014, 07:09 PM	#8
ncrypt Member Join Date: December 3, 2013 Posts: 72	thanks for the responses. I'm reloading 308 Case Lengths are 2 .015 Hornady 150 BTFMJ The die is the Dead Length Bullet Seating Die The case length was the first thing I looked at and that does make the cannelure noticeably different, but that's not the issue here. When the cases are the same length and I notice a difference in the cannelure, I measure the overal length and it's typically longer or shorter. I know the bullets are not always exact and it sounds like the cannelure is sometimes off. Maybe that's the answer. When I get a chance, I think I'll take out the plug and put it on the end of each loaded round and measure overall length. This should be more precise since its basically using the ogive. REALGUN - The plug is compatible, but it's poorly machined on the inside. You can see ridges from the bit when it was machined. I could put the plug in my drill press and go to town with light sandpaper and steel wool. thanks again Here is a pic: Looking at the design, The plug basically slides up inside the adjuster until it hits the top. The inside of the adjuster is poorly machined and not polished as well. Last edited by ncrypt; January 13, 2014 at 07:57 PM.

January 13, 2014, 07:17 AM	#3
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Your situation is often the issue when the bullet making company's cannelure machine doesn't put that in exactly the same place for each bullet. Depending on the quality of the machine and how repeatable each bullet gets positioned and held as it spins under the knurling head, that cannelure will be a few to several thousandths distance from the base or some point on the bullet's ogive. Such is life with cannelured bullets. Cannelured bullets were never intended to be "match grade" perfect across a given production lot. As 4runnerman says, case length spreads will also have an effect as to where the case mouth edge is relative to the cannelure. As will tiny differences in the bullet's ogive shape from bullet to bullet.

January 13, 2014, 07:29 AM	#4
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	See if the seating plug shape is compatible with the bullet nose shape. Check your alternatives for seater plugs.

January 13, 2014, 07:39 AM	#5
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,952	What cartridge are you loading for? What are you case lengths? What bullet are you loading? What Lee Seating die do you have, they make two different models?

January 13, 2014, 09:04 PM	#9
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	I see subtle changes in seating depth when I have resized cases with various reloaded history The case neck/mouth might be slightly thicker due to brass flow despite trimming to length, chamfer and deburring. I can virtually predict which cartridge will be longer by the feel when I seat the bullet in what I suspect was a thicker case (after seating it). How full is the case with powder? If up to the base of the neck in one case and slightly higher in the next just due to variability of delivery in the drop tube, that bit of powder resistance to bullet seating can give you a longer bullet. Re: cannelure: I had Hornady .270 bullets in 150gr some years ago that were replaced by a newer version with the cannelure CLEARLY in a different position. I wrote to Hornady and suggested they note this on the box in the future just in case there are reloaders who do not seat using a comparator but use the cannelure as their seat target. I assume they got the message but I never received a reply.