Oklahoma Researchers Test Drones That Can Detect Guns

FoghornLeghorn · April 9, 2013, 12:42 PM

I just read this article. I realize that since much of this research is taking place in Oklahoma, it stands to reason that's where the testing will take place.

But I don't like it. 4473s, registration, ad infinitum. When did we accept the notion that government has a greater right to our personal information than we have a right to privacy? I enjoy walking around my father-in-law's farm armed to the teeth looking for ninja squirrels. Now I gotta worry about somebody spying on me?

http://www.news9.com/story/21913188/...an-detect-guns

Quote:

A government report reveals testing in Oklahoma of drones with sensors that can find people and even tell if you are carrying a weapon. It's happening at a remote site near Fort Sill.

The publication Homeland Security Today says the testing is taking place at the Oklahoma Training Center for Unmanned Systems operated by Oklahoma State University. The group doing the work is "a trusted agent" of the federal government.

Nah, this could never become more than it was intended to be.

Dr Big Bird PhD · April 9, 2013, 12:57 PM

Quote:

"a trusted agent" of the federal government.

Yeah... about that.

MLeake · April 9, 2013, 01:06 PM

I have been warning people about drone tech and potential abuses in other threads, and have been bewildered by the percentage of people who think if you are doing nothing wrong, you just should not sweat it.

They don't seem to recognize the symptoms of a developing police state.

Glenn E. Meyer · April 9, 2013, 01:38 PM

There has been a similar argument a few years ago about handheld X-ray devices similar to the airport scanners. Police could drive around and aim it at you. There was a Tenn. Law Review article (could be wrong on the details of the name) that was something like Superman's X-Ray Vision and the 4th Amend.

Two concerns would be discriminatory scanning of minorities or looking at pretty women. Obviously there was more to the argument.

TXAZ · April 9, 2013, 01:42 PM

This really isn't that hard to do. They disclose the technology is detecting an exposed weapon. You can do that by many ways in particular using the cruddy little camera (and flying close) that comes on the $200 quadracopter from eBay, or spend the $$$$$$$ and optically grab the serial number on the same weapon from 2 miles away.

Not rocket science: We are identifying non-cooperative people by iris scan now from 100's of yards away now.
As for mounting a back scatter passive sensor on a drone, I'd be surprised if that is easily done now.
Conversely, I believe there is at least 1 facility in DC that currently detects concealed weapons on people approaching that building from a distance without using optics or a magnetic field. Miniaturizing that is just a matter of time.

Hello technology.

Glenn E. Meyer · April 9, 2013, 02:27 PM

Not to divert but a military site I read said the mini drones that fire good old bullets are being developed so instead of using a Hellfire, you can just zap up and shoot the bad guys having a Starbucks.

FoghornLeghorn · April 9, 2013, 02:31 PM

It's Dunkin Donuts for me from now on.

Glenn E. Meyer · April 9, 2013, 03:15 PM

Do you want your Latte with or without Lapua?

Sorry - other mods. Indulge this bit of humor.

orangello · April 9, 2013, 03:16 PM

I guess i'll have to get one of those undetectable Glock 17's then.

**Tom Servo** · April 9, 2013, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Sorry - other mods. Indulge this bit of humor.

If it gets to this, I'm closing it

We recently had a long thread in L&CR on the legal and ethical implications of this very issue, which is worth checking out.

lcpiper · April 9, 2013, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:
"a trusted agent" of the federal government.
Yeah... about that.

It just means it's a Defense Contractor like Boeing or General Dynamics. Trusted usually means their employees have US Government Security Clearances.

Drones are just another tool. Yes they can be misused just like anything else but there is more drone development going on then a lot of folks realize. Every Service has their own Drones so every service has their own training facilities and maintenance facilities. That also means every Contractor that wins a Contract to build a drone is busy flying them and so are all the Companies who were loosing competitors are flying them. You have other companies specializing in just the software but in the end they have to load it up and test it in the real thing as well. Then you have the non-military non-intelligence gathering types, the "safe" ones.

All this development adds up to a whole bunch of funny flying toys in the air in many locations. And really with the way cops have to use helicopters to chase down car jackers I am not sure I don't like the drone idea better, specially the small ones they can hand launch on site if the perps bail and start running through back yards and alleys.

Remember those drones are being flown by someone, it takes a team of controllers for the larger ones, then the sensor operators. No one is just going to fly them around for the heck of it "trolling for suspects". They will want a solid target first.

lol, I just started really reading this, see it's all there. Fort Sill, OK is the Army's Field Artillery Training Center. It is a TRADOC Post, (Training and Doctrine Command).

alex0535 · April 9, 2013, 04:29 PM

If you think that is scary, think about what happens when they start watching entire cities with a single drone that records everything going on in a medium sized city.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGxNyaXfJsA

Ruger480 · April 9, 2013, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Do you want your Latte with or without Lapua?

I about broke a rib laughin at that one!!!

curt.45 · April 9, 2013, 05:04 PM

oh, I'm so gonna need more tin foil.

tygarys · April 10, 2013, 09:44 AM

Time to start lobbying your state for a new hunting season: Drone Season!

You know Texas will likely be the first to do it!

lcpiper · April 10, 2013, 10:23 AM

Quote:

If you think that is scary, think about what happens when they start watching entire cities with a single drone that records everything going on in a medium sized city.

This is not scarey to me because since I used to work Intel I know the laws they are restricted to. There are no dark shady rooms with government geeks working in them tracking and recording your every move. This is Hollywood, not real life. The guys who work in this business take this Executive Order very serious cause they don't want to go to jail for breaking it and they know they will if they do. I know this first hand.

Now if you are a terrorist or wanted by the FBI, you're in trouble, but that is nothing new.

You guys should become familiar with Executive Order 12333.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...der/12333.html

dajowi · April 10, 2013, 03:30 PM

"The provisions of Executive Order 12333 of Dec. 4, 1981."

A lot has changed in 32 years.

We've got a government which passes a 2700 page bill without even reading it. Look at the surprises just now coming to light.

The one thing that the government wants is more control of the population not less.

Stevie-Ray · April 11, 2013, 06:30 PM

Quote:

I guess i'll have to get one of those undetectable Glock 17's then.

You mean a Glock 7? It costs more than you make in a month.

lcpiper · April 12, 2013, 12:55 PM

dajowi. I do understand what you are saying.

But I am saying I continue to work with these kinds of agencies today. I am a currently defense contractor who works with the Intel guys on many different jobs. I switch employers and contracts every one or two years, it's such a pain.

I can tell you that every year, every Employee, Government and Civilian who is involved in collection activities must undergo training on this EO and what they can and can't do in regards to collecting on US Persons. This covers every Intelligence Discipline from HUMINT to SIGINT. Look them up if you want to know what they are.

Now local cops, State agencies and such, the Law Enforcement guys, this might have some wiggle room in it. But they can still be caught, they can still be shown to have illegally violated privacy rights. But that is for the courts if your charged with something. There is a system of protection in place for this.

What I am saying is just because we have the capability to use these drones against us doesn't mean we are doing it. If you are going to fear every capability the Government and Military has you will never get another nights sleep.

globemaster3 · April 13, 2013, 10:10 AM

As for the rifle/drone combo, it's sorely needed in AFG. I can't tell you the number of times we fire a Hellfire at 1-2 individuals, at something like $60K a pop, when a simple $1-3 rifle round could have done it just as well, with a lot less collateral damage concerns.

And knowing for certain if they are/are not armed helps with the escalation of force/use of force ROE as well as PID in some cases.

But I say this with a pure military employment optic, since that hits home to me. If we see this begin to be employed in the US against US citizens, that would be a whole different bag of donuts.... With Lapua

April 9, 2013, 01:38 PM	#4
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	There has been a similar argument a few years ago about handheld X-ray devices similar to the airport scanners. Police could drive around and aim it at you. There was a Tenn. Law Review article (could be wrong on the details of the name) that was something like Superman's X-Ray Vision and the 4th Amend. Two concerns would be discriminatory scanning of minorities or looking at pretty women. Obviously there was more to the argument. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

April 9, 2013, 01:42 PM	#5
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	This really isn't that hard to do. They disclose the technology is detecting an exposed weapon. You can do that by many ways in particular using the cruddy little camera (and flying close) that comes on the $200 quadracopter from eBay, or spend the $$$$$$$ and optically grab the serial number on the same weapon from 2 miles away. Not rocket science: We are identifying non-cooperative people by iris scan now from 100's of yards away now. As for mounting a back scatter passive sensor on a drone, I'd be surprised if that is easily done now. Conversely, I believe there is at least 1 facility in DC that currently detects concealed weapons on people approaching that building from a distance without using optics or a magnetic field. Miniaturizing that is just a matter of time. Hello technology. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes Last edited by TXAZ; April 9, 2013 at 01:53 PM.

April 9, 2013, 02:27 PM	#6
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Not to divert but a military site I read said the mini drones that fire good old bullets are being developed so instead of using a Hellfire, you can just zap up and shoot the bad guys having a Starbucks. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

April 9, 2013, 03:15 PM	#8
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Do you want your Latte with or without Lapua? Sorry - other mods. Indulge this bit of humor. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

April 12, 2013, 12:55 PM	#19
lcpiper Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2011 Posts: 1,405	dajowi. I do understand what you are saying. But I am saying I continue to work with these kinds of agencies today. I am a currently defense contractor who works with the Intel guys on many different jobs. I switch employers and contracts every one or two years, it's such a pain. I can tell you that every year, every Employee, Government and Civilian who is involved in collection activities must undergo training on this EO and what they can and can't do in regards to collecting on US Persons. This covers every Intelligence Discipline from HUMINT to SIGINT. Look them up if you want to know what they are. Now local cops, State agencies and such, the Law Enforcement guys, this might have some wiggle room in it. But they can still be caught, they can still be shown to have illegally violated privacy rights. But that is for the courts if your charged with something. There is a system of protection in place for this. What I am saying is just because we have the capability to use these drones against us doesn't mean we are doing it. If you are going to fear every capability the Government and Military has you will never get another nights sleep. __________________ Colt M1911, AR-15 \| S&W Model 19, Model 27\| SIG P238 \| Berreta 85B Cheetah \| Ruger Blackhawk .357MAG, Bearcat "Shopkeeper" .22LR\| Remington Marine Magnum SP 12GA., Model 700 SPS .223

April 9, 2013, 01:06 PM	#3
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	I have been warning people about drone tech and potential abuses in other threads, and have been bewildered by the percentage of people who think if you are doing nothing wrong, you just should not sweat it. They don't seem to recognize the symptoms of a developing police state.

April 9, 2013, 02:31 PM	#7
FoghornLeghorn Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2011 Posts: 961	It's Dunkin Donuts for me from now on.

April 9, 2013, 03:16 PM	#9
orangello Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 566	I guess i'll have to get one of those undetectable Glock 17's then.

April 9, 2013, 04:29 PM	#12
alex0535 Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2012 Location: Georgia Posts: 908	If you think that is scary, think about what happens when they start watching entire cities with a single drone that records everything going on in a medium sized city. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGxNyaXfJsA

April 9, 2013, 05:04 PM	#14
curt.45 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2008 Location: Fort Wayne Ind. Posts: 866	oh, I'm so gonna need more tin foil.

April 10, 2013, 09:44 AM	#15
tygarys Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Posts: 20	Time to start lobbying your state for a new hunting season: Drone Season! You know Texas will likely be the first to do it!

April 10, 2013, 03:30 PM	#17
dajowi Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Posts: 1,196	"The provisions of Executive Order 12333 of Dec. 4, 1981." A lot has changed in 32 years. We've got a government which passes a 2700 page bill without even reading it. Look at the surprises just now coming to light. The one thing that the government wants is more control of the population not less.

April 13, 2013, 10:10 AM	#20
globemaster3 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Posts: 1,482	As for the rifle/drone combo, it's sorely needed in AFG. I can't tell you the number of times we fire a Hellfire at 1-2 individuals, at something like $60K a pop, when a simple $1-3 rifle round could have done it just as well, with a lot less collateral damage concerns. And knowing for certain if they are/are not armed helps with the escalation of force/use of force ROE as well as PID in some cases. But I say this with a pure military employment optic, since that hits home to me. If we see this begin to be employed in the US against US citizens, that would be a whole different bag of donuts.... With Lapua __________________ NRA Life Member "We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot control."