incident at local pistol range.

[tristar viper]

I just would like to post about this, cause I can't believe it happened.
Last Saturday I went to my local range just like I do every week. Got in there and signed my name and Stu (the guy working) says "OK. We got some new rules now." I asked him since when? He says "since last night."
He proceeded to tell me that a woman who had never shot before in her life came in, rented some 9mm pistol, and she had a guy along who had a CCW and seemingly acted like he knew how to properly instruct this woman. There is a camera and a monitor but the guys can't sit and watch people shoot 24/7 cause this place gets very busy. All of a sudden they heard dreadful screaming in the lane, and someone ran and looked at the monitor to see what was going on. They saw big spots all over the floor and the woman wrything in pain and holding her arm. Here she had shot herself in the arm and it had gone completely through and left a huge hole in the wall after it exited her arm. They called the squad, she's now fine, but lost a whole bunch of blood.
Upon watching the complete video of what happened, they discovered that the guy teaching was a complete disaster of unsafe practices and methods, and at one point he was holding a gun pointed downrange while talking to the woman who was behind him, when all of a sudden the gun went off twice, apparently something he didn't mean to happen. Then at another point the video shows the woman pointing this loaded and chambered weapon at the partition between the 2 lanes, and there were 2 other people in that other lane!! This guy was watching and said nothing!!!
It was a mess, and I've never known this to happen someplace, but luckily no one was killed by these two people who obviously have no understanding of pistol safety or anything else.
Now I'll forever be wary of who is beside me in the next lane, because to be honest I never thought much about it before.

[NoSecondBest]

She'll sue, and probably win. No RO on the line? Range has a lot of liability on this one. There's no excuse. If you don't have an RO no one should be shooting.

[Hoss Fly]

Another reason i thank goodness I dont have to use public ranges

[tristar viper]

Range Officer?? Nope, none. When you're in these small lanes, it's just you and whoever you got with you. They occasionally glance at the monitor when they get time but that's it. I go to another range too and it doesn't have one either. I had no idea it was a requirement (if it is). I thought the paper you sign before you shoot releases their liability for any "accidents".

[WhyteP38]

Every range I've been to has had an RO watching the line, but I don't know if that is a legal requirement or not.

That being said, sometimes the RO gets distracted. I've seen plenty of times when an RO has to stop someone who is ready to shoot and has a thumb sticking up behind the slide. The RO is doing his job, but his attention is at least momentarily diverted.

For reasons like that, plus the fact that I may need to react faster than the RO to save myself or someone else from harm, my head is on a swivel whenever there are others at the range. I have had to stop careless shooters who were about to muzzle-sweep me while checking their guns or reloading.

Never assume that you are safe because you are doing everything correctly. 9 years and 65,000 accident-free miles of motorcycling taught me that if I get hit by a car while I'm doing everything correctly, I'm still the one who gets screwed, not the careless car driver.

[tristar viper]

Your motorcycle analogy rings true to me, as a biker of about 30,000 accident free miles in my life. But yeah...I'll definitely be paying more attention to who is beside me now.

[KC9LDB]

We are laid back at the range I work at, we have cameras, but is a small place, cant watch them all the time. Whenever I rent out a gun, I always ask if the user is familiar with the operation, and if they arent, i go out on he range for a bit with them. I just really use discretion, we have our regulars, we have new shooters, just have to shake them out from the others and just give hem a face to face safety talk, the point goes across just fine.

[BerettaBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Hoss Fly

Another reason i thank goodness I dont have to use public ranges

I hear that. I let my membership expire at the local indoor because of the clueless, unsupervised shooters.

[troy_mclure]

last indoor range i shot at some chick had some how shot off the tip of her pinkie finger with a g17.

and aside from the army, i have never shot at a range with a ro before.

[Webleymkv]

So what are the new rules at your range as a result of this incident?

[tristar viper]

The rules are now that there is to be NO rapid fire to begin with....1 shot every 3 seconds is the rule now. Also, only 2 people per lane permitted at once. Before there could be 3 or 4 people sharing. And the form you sign is going to change, it'll require more questioning about experience and knowledge of gun safety. Bottom line is that if you're a regular shooter OK, but new people will be highly scrutized.

[ATW525]

When I lived in the southern part of my state, the local indoor shooting range was setup like the one you describe. No dedicated RO, just cameras so the guys behind the counter could see what was going on out on the firing line, if they were so inclined. There were times when I ended my shooting early because I just didn't feel safe with the behavior that was going on in neighboring lanes.

Thankfully nobody ever got shot when I was there, though. However, it was hard not to noticed the fact that there were bullet holes where there shouldn't be, and there always seemed to be at least one lane out of order with a downed target carrier.

I'd never shoot in that kind of range again if I could help it.

[ClayInTx]

tristar,
Still not good enough. There should be a full time RO.

Answering a question as YES that you are experienced doesn’t get it. Anyone can answer yes and believe they are experienced but still not be.

A local range ran into some legal BS and had to upgrade plus put on a full time RO. He had to raise his range fees but all the regulars understand and those who complain shouldn’t be there, anyway.

[AK103K]

The rules are now that there is to be NO rapid fire to begin with....1 shot every 3 seconds is the rule now.

Does that mean you can only shoot yourself (or someone else) "slowly" now?

Another reason i thank goodness I dont have to use public ranges

Me too. I dont like the private ranges that are controlled either. More often than not, the RO's are as much a danger (due to constant interfering/distractions) as the whack jobs.

[Tom Servo]

Still not good enough. There should be a full time RO.

Even an RO with a constant presence is not enough. I've seen one similar injury incurred while the RO was ten feet away. In another case, a shooter held the gun to his head and fired less than two seconds after the RO walked past.

The RO can act as a deterrent to unsafe practices, but he's not a panacea. The presence of one can help, but things can (and do) happen in the blink of an eye.

As far as legal liability, it would depend on range policies. Most have pretty airtight waivers against such things. In the end, the true responsibility lies with the "instructor" and the shooter.

[NavyLT]

I hope they charge the guy for the hole they put in the wall...

[NoSecondBest]

As far as legal liability, it would depend on range policies. Most have pretty airtight waivers against such things. In the end, the true responsibility lies with the "instructor" and the shooter.

Don't count on that. Anyone familiar with the legal system in our country knows how those pieces of paper are valued in court. If you're the owner, you're liable. I've seen happen. A good lawyer will find "neglience" in this case. As far as how valuable or worthwhile it is to have an RO present, I'd rather have one than not. It's going to do more good in the long run than harm. I've seen RO's do a lot of good safety enforcement and had they not been there, accidents would have happened. To argue otherwise is pretty foolish.

[old bear]

The range I shoot at requires a written 16-question test be taken before they will issue anyone a range card. Then a new member must be able to identify the various parts of an auto-loader and a revolver, i.e. muzzle, sights, trigger. The range does not have a range officer on the line but they do have a large double pane glass window between the range and sales area. I have noticed that all new shooters no matter the experience level are assigned a lane that in direct line of sight with the window and are closely watched.

Last but no least, the actions of the two involved in the incident are the reason I shoot mid-day mid-week. I’m really so old I would prefer not to have to tell some fool to pick up his gear and move it on.

[Terry A]

I've never shot in a public range and after stories like this, I'm glad. So many idiots and morons disrespect weapons.

[FreakGasolineFight]

That's why I like my range. It's in the middle of a national forest and very few people know where it is.

[Charles Ellis]

At the range where I shoot the RO was up on the line working on his personal 45 auto.He neglected to unload it and shot his left index finger off,and NO he doesn't work there any more.

[dla888]

Oh my god...
This is why people are so paranoid about guns. Because people who don't know how to use them can buy and mess around with them. Besides there is the golden rule. NEVER point a gun at something you don't intend to destroy. Kinda a no brainer... I love my gravel pit range.

[JohnKSa]

Still not good enough. There should be a full time RO.

Every indoor range I've attended has video surveillance but none has an R.O. on the line.

That includes at least 4 indoor ranges in the DFW area, one in the Norfolk, VA area and one in the Irvine, CA area.

I've also been to at least 3 outdoor ranges that had no R.O. on the line.

[jhenry]

Thank God I have my own range here at the house. Not very fancy though (not yet). There is also a state range about 30 minutes max. south of here. Closed on Mondays for clean up. Pistol. shotgun, rifle, and even an archery area. Nice outhouses, clean and well maintained, free targets, and good parking. Covered concrete benches with swivel seats. Those boys did a fine job designing and constructing it. I feel very blessed to have always had good ranges wherever I have lived. Good ranges, and good friends within the shooting community.

[JayCee]

I won't shoot at a public range, because I don't know anything about the skill level or safety practices of the person shooting next to me. I won't shoot at a range in a national forest or other public land because I don't know who might be prowling around in the vicinity with bad intentions. I only shoot at my private club or on private land with limited access.