Carrying different weapons - Page 2

armedandsafe · February 5, 2005, 03:59 PM

I switch off between the Dan Wesson and the P85. Both DA. I worked over the grips on each of them until they both shoot to same POI at 21' with the grip I get drawing from IWB. It works for me.

Pops

Walter · February 9, 2005, 11:20 PM

Quote:
"OK, you guys who have never trained force on force or been in a violent encounter, or have studied and train people for violent encounters know better than those who have."

I've been in a few "violent encounter"s. Back in January and February of
1969, it seemed like a "violent encounter" came along about every fifteen minutes. But that was I CORPS, RVN, and the 26th Marines.

Life is a little slower these days, not nearly so many firefights. But I did
learn a lot about weapons-handling back then. I don't think I have
forgotten ALL I learned "on-the-job". If I can't grab a gun I own, and
readily adjust to where the safety is, and how the sights work, I should
get rid of that gun, or, get rid of all my guns.

I feel pretty confident in my gun-handling ability. I am extremely comfortable
with the "carry" guns I use. I believe I'll keep on carrying whatever gun I decide fits my need for the day, and not worry too much about whether or not I can find the safety.

Walter

BillCA · February 9, 2005, 11:56 PM

There are a lot of good opinions here and that, in and of itself, is pleasing. What this boils down to is "If it works for you, great. If not, stick with one type of MOA".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mannlicher

You don't get proficient by reading books, or going to the range once a month. You get proficient by constant practice, and by attending training with good instructors.

Mannlicher is right on about that. There's no substitute for practice except perfect practice!

To those of you who don't worry about a different manual of arms and carry different guns, try thinking about this. When you are confronted and need to engage with deadly force, what happens when you are verging on exhausted? Or simply very tired? One person wrote about his reaching for the column shifter in a car with a console mount. Been there, done that, especially when tired.

When you are at less than 100% your body will react to what the brain remembers as it's #1 choice. Thus if you carry strong side 95% of the time and happen to be carrying crossdraw or small of the back that day, your first reaction is to reach for the strong side hip. With a SOB holster you can keep reaching, however your draw is slower now as your brain re-engages with your body.

Remember, the BG chooses when and where you'll be the victim.

Bullrock · February 10, 2005, 12:08 PM

Quote:

I feel pretty confident in my gun-handling ability. I am extremely comfortable
with the "carry" guns I use. I believe I'll keep on carrying whatever gun I decide fits my need for the day, and not worry too much about whether or not I can find the safety.

This is right on! While over the years I have migrated to mostly cocked & locked I still contiue to use all of my guns as often as I can, and like walter, I don't worry about finding the safety.

Besides, when is the last time all you gunfighters lost a gunfight because you forgot to flick down the safety?

huum? (not including Glockies, of course)

Wraith · February 10, 2005, 12:30 PM

This is not set in stone. Some people have a stronger muscle memory and others have no problem with different MOAs. It's really that simple.

Do what works best for you.

Unique 5.7 · February 10, 2005, 01:34 PM

txinvestigator - I think you have a valid point, but not the only point. There are situations where it would not be practical to carry a Beretta 92FS, but a Beretta Tomcat will do quite nicely. Then again, there are situations I wouldn't go into with less of a gun/round than the 92FS. So, having a similar manual of arms amongst one's guns is a valid factor, but not the only one and often not a very important or practical one. Having the proper tool for the job can be much more important.

weldonjr2001 · February 12, 2005, 06:58 PM

I can pull my (in alphabetical order) Beretta 92FSC, CZ 75 BD, Glock 23, Kahr K40, Ruger SP101, S&W 457, and Walther P99, and pull the trigger. Never, EVER, would or do I use any so-called safety on the Beretta or S&W. To me they're just decockers, then right back up. Just as I never have to rely on a loaded chamber indicator to tell me the pistols are loaded, because they're ALWAYS loaded. So to me, because I know ME, it's not an issue. If I wasn't so familiar with my weapons, I'd probably consider carrying only 1. I DON'T carry my Kimber 1911 or Browning HP much in urban settings, because they now introduce a real safety, and the technique differs. I can't just pull them and pull the trigger. Well, I could, but that's the problem

Multi-G · February 12, 2005, 07:32 PM

The old saying........."Beware of the man who has only one gun, for he probably knows how to use it." I think we have all heard that one.

I have never heard, "Beware of the man who has a big gun collection."

I think it is best to carry one gun, and carry it often. I am equally at home with a Glock, Sig, or a Kahr. Notice no safety to mess with. Different guns, yes, but they are all basically point and press guns. 99% of the time I am with a Glock, keep in mind the grip angle affects your natural pointability for different firearms. I have 5+ years of pointing a Glock, so that is my choice.

I do "play with" others, like the venerable 1911, but right now I do not carry one, nor even shoot one often. I have no need to mix safety positions, etc in my Carry Setups.

hotntot12 · February 13, 2005, 12:16 AM

(For what it's worth)....after 40 years of experience I would coach the same by teaching skills through repitition.Certainly we all don't all learn the same or are at the same intelligence level but when the game is on the line and I have done my job properly my teams will beat you most of the time because they learned and will react from repitition of concepts, correctly taught,under stress.

Jeff22 · February 13, 2005, 12:54 AM

You always hear the old saying "Beware the man with only one gun, for he probably knows how to use it . . . ."

A very logical thought, on the face of it. And true. But in my experience, the "man who only has one gun" usually only has one gun because he doesn't particularly LIKE guns, and he doesn't shoot that one very often EITHER.

That's not always the case, just usually the case. If you are restricted by policy to one particular weapon as a service weapon, by all means make that your primary and focus your training on it. And it's probably best for most people not to spread themselves too thin by trying to maintain familiarity with LOTS of different operating systems.

And it makes no sense for a GI who has to carry an M9 on duty, or a cop who carries a Glock 22 on the job to do all their practice with a Kimber Warrior SA auto that they only shoot in pistol matches. Train the way you want to play.

Karaya1 · February 13, 2005, 04:57 PM

I say find a platform you like and stick with it.
Sigs, Glocks, 1911's, ect all come in different flavors to satisfy your carrying needs. Personally i am a SIG guy. Therefore i probably won't buy anything but SIG's for at least a while.

shy_man · February 14, 2005, 12:26 AM

I have only two handguns due to the high price of FA in my country.My M1991A1 stainless and my DP51 Daewoo. Both has almost the same operation it it comes to the manual safety. The only significant difference is the trigger pull. My 1911 has a short trigger pull whereas my DP51 is too long that you need to press the trigger along the way to go bang.

With these two firearms, there is no internal modifications made. About familiarity to each gun, I would say, I am very much familiar to the operation and it will not affect which ever I will carry.

I think it would be better to have carry guns switching everyday that has the same operations, you just don't know what may happen when you are in a situation where you really need to make the first fire. If you are used to 1911 and that that day you are in need to shoot for self defense and carrying a beretta, then you migth be confused when to remove off the safety. This is shallow reason anyway but it might happen.

seb5 · February 14, 2005, 08:59 AM

I think it's a good idea for those of you who are not comfortable with different manuals of arms to not carry more than one. I also think it's a poor idea for those who are competent with several types to limit themselves to one because of someone elses ideas of what works for them. Sometimes it's easier to agree to disagree.

abelew · February 18, 2005, 06:56 PM

Carry an auto for primary, carry a DA revo for backup (easiest manual of arms-just pull trigger)

VirgilCaine · February 22, 2005, 07:45 PM

Murphy is a big fan of combat situations. Unless you are crazy or stupid, you will revert deep down into instinct and training. I really believe that a person does not actually "think" in combat. It is not how you imagine it. Your reaction must be rote and automatic, without hesitation. Toss in an unfamiliar weapon and you up the percentage of something going wrong, and that will compound an already anxious moment. You up the chances that you will be the one springing a leak.

You just gotta believe that there are some new/young CCW holders out there, standing in front of the bathroom mirror, saying with their toughest voice, "you talkin' to me?", and calling it training. Confidence is a good thing, but it won't remind you which pistol you have that day/night.

I suppose i've used up my .02 cents

Rojoe67 · February 22, 2005, 08:15 PM

another vote for the wheel gun

ya I got a 9mm too......but the wheel gun is so darned easy and lighter too....

Robert Allison · February 23, 2005, 05:38 PM

As alluded to by most, I carry a variety of different guns depending on the circumstances. And while I feel pretty confident in my abilities with respect to each, I have experienced the momentary confusion with regard to controls that can occur in a sudden emergency. We all think we're real smart and well trained, but I'd venture to say that when there's about a gallon of adrenalin coursing through your system it could be a different story.

So.....anymore I almost invariably carry either a cocked and locked 1911, or a revolver or semi-auto with a double-action first shot. In the case of the semi, I never use the safety, keep one in the chamber and rely on the DA feature.

Bullrock · February 23, 2005, 06:35 PM

Quote:

(For what it's worth)....after 40 years of experience I would coach the same by teaching skills through repitition.Certainly we all don't all learn the same or are at the same intelligence level but when the game is on the line and I have done my job properly my teams will beat you most of the time because they learned and will react from repitition of concepts, correctly taught,under stress.

I really hate to say this hotntot12, but so will my pup.

What in hell are you guys training for, WWlll?

Man, I'm old and my wife will tell you kinda senile, but I always know which gun I'm carrying, how to use it, and I don't lose any sleep over it. Having said that, I probably will begin to sweat it if a rifle team decends upon me and opens fire..

February 5, 2005, 03:59 PM	#26
armedandsafe Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: Moses Lake WA Posts: 1,001	I switch off between the Dan Wesson and the P85. Both DA. I worked over the grips on each of them until they both shoot to same POI at 21' with the grip I get drawing from IWB. It works for me. Pops __________________ Armed and Safe: Not just a theory If it time to bury them, it is time to dig them up. Remember, "Behind every blade of grass."

February 10, 2005, 12:30 PM	#30
Wraith Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2004 Location: The Free State Posts: 498	This is not set in stone. Some people have a stronger muscle memory and others have no problem with different MOAs. It's really that simple. Do what works best for you. __________________ June 23, 2003 GRATZ et al. v. BOLLINGER et al. The day America died. Never Forget 9/11. Cold dead hands...

February 10, 2005, 01:34 PM	#31
Unique 5.7 Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2005 Location: The Heartland Posts: 214	txinvestigator - I think you have a valid point, but not the only point. There are situations where it would not be practical to carry a Beretta 92FS, but a Beretta Tomcat will do quite nicely. Then again, there are situations I wouldn't go into with less of a gun/round than the 92FS. So, having a similar manual of arms amongst one's guns is a valid factor, but not the only one and often not a very important or practical one. Having the proper tool for the job can be much more important. __________________ "Never underestimate the power of a guilty conscience." - Det. Alexandra Eames, "Law & Order: Criminal Intent"

February 13, 2005, 12:16 AM	#34
hotntot12 Member Join Date: May 26, 2004 Posts: 17	Coaching-teaching others.... (For what it's worth)....after 40 years of experience I would coach the same by teaching skills through repitition.Certainly we all don't all learn the same or are at the same intelligence level but when the game is on the line and I have done my job properly my teams will beat you most of the time because they learned and will react from repitition of concepts, correctly taught,under stress.

February 13, 2005, 12:54 AM	#35
Jeff22 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2004 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 715	the man with only one gun You always hear the old saying "Beware the man with only one gun, for he probably knows how to use it . . . ." A very logical thought, on the face of it. And true. But in my experience, the "man who only has one gun" usually only has one gun because he doesn't particularly LIKE guns, and he doesn't shoot that one very often EITHER. That's not always the case, just usually the case. If you are restricted by policy to one particular weapon as a service weapon, by all means make that your primary and focus your training on it. And it's probably best for most people not to spread themselves too thin by trying to maintain familiarity with LOTS of different operating systems. And it makes no sense for a GI who has to carry an M9 on duty, or a cop who carries a Glock 22 on the job to do all their practice with a Kimber Warrior SA auto that they only shoot in pistol matches. Train the way you want to play. __________________ You can only learn from experience if you pay attention!

February 9, 2005, 11:20 PM	#27
Walter Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Location: North Texas Posts: 641	Quote: "OK, you guys who have never trained force on force or been in a violent encounter, or have studied and train people for violent encounters know better than those who have." I've been in a few "violent encounter"s. Back in January and February of 1969, it seemed like a "violent encounter" came along about every fifteen minutes. But that was I CORPS, RVN, and the 26th Marines. Life is a little slower these days, not nearly so many firefights. But I did learn a lot about weapons-handling back then. I don't think I have forgotten ALL I learned "on-the-job". If I can't grab a gun I own, and readily adjust to where the safety is, and how the sights work, I should get rid of that gun, or, get rid of all my guns. I feel pretty confident in my gun-handling ability. I am extremely comfortable with the "carry" guns I use. I believe I'll keep on carrying whatever gun I decide fits my need for the day, and not worry too much about whether or not I can find the safety. Walter

February 12, 2005, 06:58 PM	#32
weldonjr2001 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2001 Location: San Antonio, Tx. Posts: 462	I can pull my (in alphabetical order) Beretta 92FSC, CZ 75 BD, Glock 23, Kahr K40, Ruger SP101, S&W 457, and Walther P99, and pull the trigger. Never, EVER, would or do I use any so-called safety on the Beretta or S&W. To me they're just decockers, then right back up. Just as I never have to rely on a loaded chamber indicator to tell me the pistols are loaded, because they're ALWAYS loaded. So to me, because I know ME, it's not an issue. If I wasn't so familiar with my weapons, I'd probably consider carrying only 1. I DON'T carry my Kimber 1911 or Browning HP much in urban settings, because they now introduce a real safety, and the technique differs. I can't just pull them and pull the trigger. Well, I could, but that's the problem

February 12, 2005, 07:32 PM	#33
Multi-G Member Join Date: November 3, 2001 Location: Ohio Posts: 15	The old saying........."Beware of the man who has only one gun, for he probably knows how to use it." I think we have all heard that one. I have never heard, "Beware of the man who has a big gun collection." I think it is best to carry one gun, and carry it often. I am equally at home with a Glock, Sig, or a Kahr. Notice no safety to mess with. Different guns, yes, but they are all basically point and press guns. 99% of the time I am with a Glock, keep in mind the grip angle affects your natural pointability for different firearms. I have 5+ years of pointing a Glock, so that is my choice. I do "play with" others, like the venerable 1911, but right now I do not carry one, nor even shoot one often. I have no need to mix safety positions, etc in my Carry Setups.

February 13, 2005, 04:57 PM	#36
Karaya1 Junior Member Join Date: December 12, 2004 Posts: 14	I say find a platform you like and stick with it. Sigs, Glocks, 1911's, ect all come in different flavors to satisfy your carrying needs. Personally i am a SIG guy. Therefore i probably won't buy anything but SIG's for at least a while.

February 14, 2005, 12:26 AM	#37
shy_man Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Valenzuela City, Metro Manila, Philippines Posts: 366	I have only two handguns due to the high price of FA in my country.My M1991A1 stainless and my DP51 Daewoo. Both has almost the same operation it it comes to the manual safety. The only significant difference is the trigger pull. My 1911 has a short trigger pull whereas my DP51 is too long that you need to press the trigger along the way to go bang. With these two firearms, there is no internal modifications made. About familiarity to each gun, I would say, I am very much familiar to the operation and it will not affect which ever I will carry. I think it would be better to have carry guns switching everyday that has the same operations, you just don't know what may happen when you are in a situation where you really need to make the first fire. If you are used to 1911 and that that day you are in need to shoot for self defense and carrying a beretta, then you migth be confused when to remove off the safety. This is shallow reason anyway but it might happen. Last edited by shy_man; February 14, 2005 at 07:34 PM.

February 14, 2005, 08:59 AM	#38
seb5 Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 477	I think it's a good idea for those of you who are not comfortable with different manuals of arms to not carry more than one. I also think it's a poor idea for those who are competent with several types to limit themselves to one because of someone elses ideas of what works for them. Sometimes it's easier to agree to disagree. __________________ Home is where you dig it

February 18, 2005, 06:56 PM	#39
abelew Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 778	Carry an auto for primary, carry a DA revo for backup (easiest manual of arms-just pull trigger) __________________ "Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence." ~ Mohatma Gandhi

February 22, 2005, 07:45 PM	#40
VirgilCaine Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 2004 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 419	Murphy is a big fan of combat situations. Unless you are crazy or stupid, you will revert deep down into instinct and training. I really believe that a person does not actually "think" in combat. It is not how you imagine it. Your reaction must be rote and automatic, without hesitation. Toss in an unfamiliar weapon and you up the percentage of something going wrong, and that will compound an already anxious moment. You up the chances that you will be the one springing a leak. You just gotta believe that there are some new/young CCW holders out there, standing in front of the bathroom mirror, saying with their toughest voice, "you talkin' to me?", and calling it training. Confidence is a good thing, but it won't remind you which pistol you have that day/night. I suppose i've used up my .02 cents __________________ "Danger Itself Is The Best Remedy For Danger"

February 22, 2005, 08:15 PM	#41
Rojoe67 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: Wolverine State Posts: 767	another vote for the wheel gun ya I got a 9mm too......but the wheel gun is so darned easy and lighter too....

February 23, 2005, 05:38 PM	#42
Robert Allison Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: NW Montana Posts: 146	As alluded to by most, I carry a variety of different guns depending on the circumstances. And while I feel pretty confident in my abilities with respect to each, I have experienced the momentary confusion with regard to controls that can occur in a sudden emergency. We all think we're real smart and well trained, but I'd venture to say that when there's about a gallon of adrenalin coursing through your system it could be a different story. So.....anymore I almost invariably carry either a cocked and locked 1911, or a revolver or semi-auto with a double-action first shot. In the case of the semi, I never use the safety, keep one in the chamber and rely on the DA feature.