Sierra MK Bullets - Revisited

sricciardelli · November 22, 2002, 04:45 PM

Please don't tell the deer this bullet is no good for hunting!

First shot was at a white tail doe. Distance was about 475 yards. One shot, one kill. The animal dropped like a ton of bricks. Didn't move an inch after the bullet hit (bullet? bullet? 7mm mag, 168 Sierra HPBT MK, doing around 2992 fps.)

Second shot was at a white tail buck. Distance was around 300 yards. Again, one shot, one kill. And this animal dropped just like the first one! Same load.

Now tell me that Sierra MK bullets aren't worth a damn for hunting!

ruda · November 22, 2002, 06:57 PM

You really asked for it now! I posted similar results 1 year ago and everyone jumped all over me. This disrupts everyone's "expert" knowledge. It seems that somewhere in the death of these deer our SMK's have failed. SMK's work just fine on deer and that includes expanding well.

RemVssf · November 22, 2002, 07:22 PM

It's not that they won't work BUT they aren't designed for hunting !!!
If you like the 168 .. never mind you are using something other than 30 cal (308) cause the 165 HPBT GK is as accurate and more deadly than the 168 MK.

This time you made the kill. What happens if next time you are off on the wind or distance guesstimation and instead of a CNS shot you hit the paunch ?? How long will you track ? Will you curse then the bullet for not expanding OR will you smack the shooter for having his head up his "4th point of contact" for using something it isn't made for ?

You'd never hunt with my crew ... we work too hard and respect the game we hunt too much to brag or try to "legitimise" what you did.

HSMITH · November 22, 2002, 07:47 PM

With the right placement bullet construction/expansion is very low on the list of things that need to happen for a clean kill provided the bullet does not blow up. On poor placement the very best of bullets are still not going to kill cleanly, if at all, and the bullet that blows up might just give you your best chance of recovering the animal.

Use PLENTY of gun, and hit 'em right. Everything after that is subject to opinions.

I would be rather nervous that I might get a 40 yard shot and have a magazine full of matchkings. I am not betting on their performance out of a 7 mag loaded stout up close. Have you shot anything up close with them?

sricciardelli · November 22, 2002, 11:17 PM

I have taken white tail, mule deer and antelope, in calibers from .224 to .308, using Sierra MK bullets, at ranges of 35 feet to 725 yards.

Have never had an animal complain, or require a second shot.

Johnny Guest · November 23, 2002, 01:31 AM

If you use a heavy barrel rifle, very steady rest, very high power scope, all conditions correct - - -I had rather attribute such successes to exactly the right conditions and exactly right gear, combined with a high degree of practice and skill with a particular rig . . . than just dumb luck. What does it prove, in the long run?

Many white tail deer have been killed with FMJ .223 from Mini 14s, not to mention .22 rimfire. Some of 'em were recovered, too.

I've read that hundreds--probably thousands -- of elephant have been killed with FMJ 7.62X51 fired from FAL and G3 rifles. I might do the same, if I was hungry.

I believe, though, that all sportsmen owe game animals the respect of as clean and quick a demise as possible. This includes both making only shots pretty certain to make a sure kill, with appropriate ammunition. Extreme precision and experience can accomplish a great deal, barring bad luck.

Johnny

moredes · November 23, 2002, 03:09 AM

Some @sshole at our club was talking last week about his 'adventures' some months ago with his favorite Rem 700 using 168 SMK's. Seems he shot a deer, or elk at 150yd after running about 200yd to make the shot. This is a guy in his late 50's and way out of shape--6 feet tall, maybe 300lb. As he said himself, "(he) couldn't keep the scope steady, but the animal was so big in that scope, I shot at her anyways. It took two to get her down. I asked my buddies twice, should I send another? They said 'no'. By this time, his heart has steadied, and he's gotten his cross-sticks, but they decide not to shoot it again, though it is clearly visible, and down. So (they) all trudged back the 200yd to the truck and drove around to the other side of the fence, but they couldn't find the 'cow'. One of the others in better physical shape tracked her for 6 miles (or so he claims

) but never saw her again. We gave up on her; besides, the wives were waiting and dinner was gettin' cold."

@ssholes.

ruda · November 23, 2002, 12:33 PM

See what I mean.

RemVssf, guess what, hit a deer in the paunch with any bullet and you are gonna have trouble. Even with gamekings, or bearclaws, whatever.

Another thing I can't figure out is how some people pretend to know the way a hunter feels or how hard he works for his game, just because his experience doesn't mesh with theirs, especially from a post on the internet.

Placement is the key. But I don't think it really matters if you have all the "right gear." Heavy barrels and huge scopes, etc aren't required for it.

I don't see the correlation between the idiot at the gun club and the use of SMK's. Just as with a hit to the paunch, if that idiot can't shoot or hunt for that matter, it doesn't matter what he's shooting.

Gewehr98 · November 23, 2002, 10:05 PM

There's plenty of cheap steel-core stuff out there, just waiting for deer and elk season!

I took the bolt out of my friend's 6.5mm-06, and kept it from him for several months. He'd gone to Texas with the rifle, and a couple boxes of 120gr Sierra MatchKing handloads. His first deer was a frontal quartering shot. The bullet went in, and came somewhere out the back. Not much of a blood trail, the 3200fps round just zipped through. They tracked until sundown, and tried again in the morning. They never did find the deer. I came so close to throwing that rifle's bolt in the Sacramento River...

Target loads are for just that - targets. SMK's got the nod for military sniper use, the Judge Advocate's Group deemed them suitable under the rules of the Hague Convention. They made it, even with that little hollowpoint, because they're not designed to expand on impact. So now that they're suitable for eliminating enemy combatants, they're the cat's meow for putting venison on the table?

What's the point? Was it an in-your-face "What If" moment, proving that it could be done? I know poachers use rimfires to take their deer quietly, too. Can't wait for that test to come up here at TFL.

I fired an aluminum arrow out of a .410 shotgun a few times. Guess I'll have to post about how effective those would be on deer, seeing that it was never the intended purpose of either the arrow or the shotgun. But it could be done, damn the gamesmanship...

Poodleshooter · November 23, 2002, 11:11 PM

Once while visiting LL Bean, I saw a mounted cougar that was killed with a .22 magnum. Apparently this worked quite well, as the cat seemed rather stuffed. I still wouldn't recommend the .22 magnum, as it wasn't designed for the task.
Perhaps we should just recommend that all new posters use SMK's and aim for the head, out to, oh, say 700yds? Or we could try a fancy idea such as recommending a soft point for the majority of posters who will never see a deer past 300yds.

November 22, 2002, 04:45 PM	#1
sricciardelli Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: Montana Posts: 489	Sierra MK Bullets - Revisited Please don't tell the deer this bullet is no good for hunting! First shot was at a white tail doe. Distance was about 475 yards. One shot, one kill. The animal dropped like a ton of bricks. Didn't move an inch after the bullet hit (bullet? bullet? 7mm mag, 168 Sierra HPBT MK, doing around 2992 fps.) Second shot was at a white tail buck. Distance was around 300 yards. Again, one shot, one kill. And this animal dropped just like the first one! Same load. Now tell me that Sierra MK bullets aren't worth a damn for hunting! __________________ http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

November 22, 2002, 07:22 PM	#3
RemVssf Member Join Date: August 21, 2002 Location: AUBURN,(the UNIV. in) Alabama Posts: 21	It's not that they won't work BUT they aren't designed for hunting !!! If you like the 168 .. never mind you are using something other than 30 cal (308) cause the 165 HPBT GK is as accurate and more deadly than the 168 MK. This time you made the kill. What happens if next time you are off on the wind or distance guesstimation and instead of a CNS shot you hit the paunch ?? How long will you track ? Will you curse then the bullet for not expanding OR will you smack the shooter for having his head up his "4th point of contact" for using something it isn't made for ? You'd never hunt with my crew ... we work too hard and respect the game we hunt too much to brag or try to "legitimise" what you did. __________________ Later, Will No good deed ever goes un-punished. This just goes to prove that, " A thousand Atta-boys can and will be wiped out by one, AW- Crap !"

November 22, 2002, 11:17 PM	#5
sricciardelli Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: Montana Posts: 489	I have taken white tail, mule deer and antelope, in calibers from .224 to .308, using Sierra MK bullets, at ranges of 35 feet to 725 yards. Have never had an animal complain, or require a second shot. __________________ http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

November 23, 2002, 01:31 AM	#6
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Sure, it CAN be done - - - - If you use a heavy barrel rifle, very steady rest, very high power scope, all conditions correct - - -I had rather attribute such successes to exactly the right conditions and exactly right gear, combined with a high degree of practice and skill with a particular rig . . . than just dumb luck. What does it prove, in the long run? Many white tail deer have been killed with FMJ .223 from Mini 14s, not to mention .22 rimfire. Some of 'em were recovered, too. I've read that hundreds--probably thousands -- of elephant have been killed with FMJ 7.62X51 fired from FAL and G3 rifles. I might do the same, if I was hungry. I believe, though, that all sportsmen owe game animals the respect of as clean and quick a demise as possible. This includes both making only shots pretty certain to make a sure kill, with appropriate ammunition. Extreme precision and experience can accomplish a great deal, barring bad luck. Johnny

November 23, 2002, 10:05 PM	#9
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	Hell, what's next, deer hunting with 7.62 NATO black-tip AP? There's plenty of cheap steel-core stuff out there, just waiting for deer and elk season! I took the bolt out of my friend's 6.5mm-06, and kept it from him for several months. He'd gone to Texas with the rifle, and a couple boxes of 120gr Sierra MatchKing handloads. His first deer was a frontal quartering shot. The bullet went in, and came somewhere out the back. Not much of a blood trail, the 3200fps round just zipped through. They tracked until sundown, and tried again in the morning. They never did find the deer. I came so close to throwing that rifle's bolt in the Sacramento River... Target loads are for just that - targets. SMK's got the nod for military sniper use, the Judge Advocate's Group deemed them suitable under the rules of the Hague Convention. They made it, even with that little hollowpoint, because they're not designed to expand on impact. So now that they're suitable for eliminating enemy combatants, they're the cat's meow for putting venison on the table? What's the point? Was it an in-your-face "What If" moment, proving that it could be done? I know poachers use rimfires to take their deer quietly, too. Can't wait for that test to come up here at TFL. I fired an aluminum arrow out of a .410 shotgun a few times. Guess I'll have to post about how effective those would be on deer, seeing that it was never the intended purpose of either the arrow or the shotgun. But it could be done, damn the gamesmanship... __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

November 22, 2002, 06:57 PM	#2
ruda Member Join Date: January 29, 2001 Posts: 23	You really asked for it now! I posted similar results 1 year ago and everyone jumped all over me. This disrupts everyone's "expert" knowledge. It seems that somewhere in the death of these deer our SMK's have failed. SMK's work just fine on deer and that includes expanding well.

November 22, 2002, 07:47 PM	#4
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	With the right placement bullet construction/expansion is very low on the list of things that need to happen for a clean kill provided the bullet does not blow up. On poor placement the very best of bullets are still not going to kill cleanly, if at all, and the bullet that blows up might just give you your best chance of recovering the animal. Use PLENTY of gun, and hit 'em right. Everything after that is subject to opinions. I would be rather nervous that I might get a 40 yard shot and have a magazine full of matchkings. I am not betting on their performance out of a 7 mag loaded stout up close. Have you shot anything up close with them?

November 23, 2002, 03:09 AM	#7
moredes Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Posts: 325	Some @sshole at our club was talking last week about his 'adventures' some months ago with his favorite Rem 700 using 168 SMK's. Seems he shot a deer, or elk at 150yd after running about 200yd to make the shot. This is a guy in his late 50's and way out of shape--6 feet tall, maybe 300lb. As he said himself, "(he) couldn't keep the scope steady, but the animal was so big in that scope, I shot at her anyways. It took two to get her down. I asked my buddies twice, should I send another? They said 'no'. By this time, his heart has steadied, and he's gotten his cross-sticks, but they decide not to shoot it again, though it is clearly visible, and down. So (they) all trudged back the 200yd to the truck and drove around to the other side of the fence, but they couldn't find the 'cow'. One of the others in better physical shape tracked her for 6 miles (or so he claims ) but never saw her again. We gave up on her; besides, the wives were waiting and dinner was gettin' cold." @ssholes.

November 23, 2002, 12:33 PM	#8
ruda Member Join Date: January 29, 2001 Posts: 23	See what I mean. RemVssf, guess what, hit a deer in the paunch with any bullet and you are gonna have trouble. Even with gamekings, or bearclaws, whatever. Another thing I can't figure out is how some people pretend to know the way a hunter feels or how hard he works for his game, just because his experience doesn't mesh with theirs, especially from a post on the internet. Placement is the key. But I don't think it really matters if you have all the "right gear." Heavy barrels and huge scopes, etc aren't required for it. I don't see the correlation between the idiot at the gun club and the use of SMK's. Just as with a hit to the paunch, if that idiot can't shoot or hunt for that matter, it doesn't matter what he's shooting.

November 23, 2002, 11:11 PM	#10
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	Once while visiting LL Bean, I saw a mounted cougar that was killed with a .22 magnum. Apparently this worked quite well, as the cat seemed rather stuffed. I still wouldn't recommend the .22 magnum, as it wasn't designed for the task. Perhaps we should just recommend that all new posters use SMK's and aim for the head, out to, oh, say 700yds? Or we could try a fancy idea such as recommending a soft point for the majority of posters who will never see a deer past 300yds.