Focus on that front sight boy!

[grey.ghost]

I grew up in Western Montana, and my father was my instructor. Never did he tell me to focus on the front sight. I started shooting when I was about eight, and had my own handgun by twelve. I am not the very best "one ragged hole" shot on the planet, but I do just fine and am extremely confident in my abilities. Fast forward forty years. I started reading shooting forums and was intrigued by some of the technique threads I've been reading.

In several of these threads I've read that one could magically shoot like a Navy Seal in seconds by focusing in the front sight. I had been thinking about that a lot, and wondered if that's how I shoot. I'm certain I could hold my own against most shooters, even Navy Seals, so that must be how I do it. Let's go check.

You're wondering at this point why I wouldn't just know whether I focus on the front sight of the top of my head. Yeah, me too.

Grabbed a couple revolvers, a couple autos, a bunch of ammo and some targets today and hit the woods.

Short answer is no, I do not focus on the front sight. I focus on my target and bring my gun to bear where the sights enter my field of vision, out of focus, and I fire... By instinct. I was disappointed in myself for "not doing it right" all these years. So I set out to fix that. What I found was the exact opposite of fixing it. Focusing on my front sight had me shooting everywhere, and I mean everywhere. I worked on this serious flaw in my shooting technique for hours and hundreds and hundreds of rounds of ammo today. Mostly .22 mind you.

My result?

I gave up and went back to instinct shooting. Point and shoot. That's how I learned and that's how I shoot best. Focusing on the front sight only helped me make a lot of very expensive noise.

Full disclosure, I grew up on single action revolvers and was as a kid, obsessed with the wild wild west. So much of my shooting early was from the hip and I became rather accurate with no sights at all. I also shoot all of my bows with no pins.

This post has no direction. I really have no need at all to "fix" my technique. My wife didn't care to hear my story, so I thought I'd post it on a forum.

Cheers!

[4EVERM-14]

There is nothing wrong with instinctive shooting. Obviously it's working for you. If you're doing well stay with it.
For serious precision shooting ,particularly iron sight rifle, the front sight is where the game begins. When shooting at distance the alignment of the sights is critical. That's why focusing on the front sight is stressed.

[jmhyer]

I enjoyed your story, GG. Thanks.

[SC4006]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I don't think there really is a right technique that is universal to everyone; what may work for one person may not for another. I focus on the front sight, and both the rear sight, and target are blurry. I don't shoot that way because the internet told me it's the right way, I shoot that way because it's the best way I shoot.

[psalm7]

The way you shoot is how a contractor showed me how to shoot combat pistol craft . This was in the early 1980's before they were called contractors . I taught the long range rifle . He had a time teaching me to shoot a hand gun , but it works . Since I joined this forum I have started shooting with the front site focus it works too so I train both for different type shooting . Focus on target for snap shooting and front site for slow fire .

[bandaid1]

Back in the mid 1980's the Marine's had a class in point shooting. They called the class "quick skill" or something like that. It was all based on point shooting. Some Marines got real good at it, others struggled with it.

I think some firearms also lend themselves more to point shooting than others. I've only tried it with a 22lr browning semi auto rifle. It takes a lot of practice to get good at it and frequently the first shot is used as a spotter round. I can see its value at shorter distances thou. It's quick.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by grey.ghost

...I gave up and went back to instinct shooting. Point and shoot. That's how I learned and that's how I shoot best. Focusing on the front sight only helped me make a lot of very expensive noise....

A lot depends on how well you're shooting, what sorts of hits on target are you getting, at what distances, and does that serve your needs.

Some folks might use a particular technique and be fully satisfied with their performance. They might, of course, be able to do better trying something else; but if they want to do that, they need to commit the time and effort to learn to master something new.

In the days when my wife and I were helping coach our youth trapshooting team, we got a lot of experience helping someone change to a technique which offered the potential for better performance. Often one of our shooters would reach a plateau and just couldn't seem to improve beyond a certain point. And often the problem was that he was doing something that he thought "worked for him", but it only worked to a point.

So we'd work on showing him a different, more generally accepted way. Initially, his performance would deteriorate, and he'd become frustrated. But with continued training and work, he start to get the hang of the new technique and his scores would improve beyond where he had been stuck.

That is the common "natural history" of making any change that offers the potential for improvement. Breaking old habits can be hard, and something new might initially seem not to work too well. But sometimes the new way can offer greater "up-side" if one sticks with it.

I'm part of a group of instructors putting on regular NRA Basic Handgun classes at a local range. We teach beginners starting with a front sight focus. We've found that a front sight focus also facilitates developing good trigger control. As a training approach it works, and works well.

Myself and my fellow instructors all learned that way, and we all have fairly long and extensive shooting and training resumes. And although we have all trained with the front sight focus, that's not the only tool in our tool boxes.

Building on the core fundamental of good trigger control, we have all experience point shooting from the retention position at very near targets, and we use the flash sight picture for speed at near targets. And when we require some precision we have our front sight focus.

Different tools, and different techniques, can serve different purposes under different circumstance. Having only one tool can be very limiting.

[grey.ghost]

Good info, thank you all for the comments

[Flapjack23]

I find that the "focus on the front site" method works well for me. Although I am not sure if I am correctly using the method. I tend to concentrate on the target, place the front site where I want the bullet to go, not really noticing the rear site much and squeeze the trigger. I'm far from an expert marksman, but it works well for me. I tend to shoot better than most of the people I shoot with FWIW

[MrBorland]

Originally Posted by grey.ghost

I'm certain I could hold my own against most shooters, even Navy Seals, so that must be how I do it.

And why are you certain of this? Ever shot against really good shooters? Not trying to be a wise guy, but it'd be hard to support or refute your position without seeing you shoot. As Frank mentioned, a lot depends on the targets, distance, what your yardstick for "good shooting" is, and whether you're happy with the result.

Some high-speed shooters do use a target focus, but it's not instinctive point shooting - they're looking at the target through the sights. They let their subconscious pick up & confirm a sight picture and to break the shot if it's ok. As 4EVERM-14 mentioned, though, for precision shooting, a front sight focus is the way to go.

Point shooting works better for you because that's what you're used to. Someone trained for a front sight focus would likely have similarly poor results when they tried point shooting the first time.

[grey.ghost]

Originally Posted by MrBorland

And why are you certain of this? Ever shot against really good shooters?

Yes Sir. I've never shot against a Navy Seal, but I've shot against some incredible shooters. I'm never upset with my performance.

[pete2]

You can put them all in the 10 ring at 50yds???

[MarkGlazer]

This subject arose last year and I posted this link:
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/def...th-aging-eyes/

The answer lies in the individuals' physical restrictions and what they find works best for them. In my own case I'm terribly near-sighted and wear bifocals. The rear site of any weapon throws off my depth perception. I've removed the rear sites on two 9mm pistols and my Hi-point rifle, now solely focused on the target through the front site. I've also glo-painted the front site green on the pistols. The result is "not too bad but still needs work." However, my placement is definitely better without the distraction of the rear site.

Again, it is about what does work for the individual and the physical restrictions that may need to be dealt with.

[aarondhgraham]

An Air Force small arms instructor explained it to me,,,
After his explanation it makes perfect sense.

When they say "Focus on the front sight",,,
They actually mean:

"Put your mental focus on aligning the front sight with the target."

Most new shooters spend too much mental focus trying to align the front/rear/target,,,
The trick is to put your mental focus on aligning the front/target.

If you do this consistently,,,
The rear sight alignment naturally (eventually) follows.

I have introduced many new shooters to handguns,,,
This teaching technique seems to work very well.

I told this to one of the NRA certified instructors I know,,,
He started to use this phrase instead of "focus on the front sight",,,
He said it did make a very noticeable difference in how his students perceived this statement.

It's not that it's wrong information,,,
It simply isn't clear to your student what to do.

it's like when someone at batting practice keeps repeating,,,
"Keep your eyes on the ball."

What they really mean is:
"Follow the path of the ball with your eyes"

You should be able to tell your coach how you missed every pitch.
Did you swing early, swing late, swing high, or swing low.

Our beloved teaching statements are meaningless,,,
Without some context to understand them in.

Before you naysayers get all up in arms,,,
I am not and probably will never be a Certified NRA Instructor,,,
I'm simply not interested in turning my favorite pastime into another vocation.

But I was a Certified USAF Technical Trainer for 6 years,,,
And I have a BS and a MS in Occupational Education,,,
I design and conduct training seminars for a living.

I understand the difference a few words can make.

Try it with your next student.

Aarond

.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by grey.ghost

...Some high-speed shooters do use a target focus, but it's not instinctive point shooting...

And here's how the flash sight picture works (Morrison, Gregory, The Modern Technique of the Pistol, Gunsite Press, 1991, pp 87 - 88, emphasis added):

...The flash sight-picture involves a glimpse of the sight-picture sufficient to confirm alignment....The target shooter’s gaze at the front sight has proven inappropriate for the bulk of pistol fighting. However, the practical shooter must start at this level and work up to the flash, which becomes reflexive as motor skills are refined. With practice, a consistent firing platform and firing stroke align the sights effortlessly. This index to the target eventually becomes an instantaneous confirmation of the sight-picture.

...Using the flash sight-picture programs the reflex of aligning the weapon’s sights with the target instantly....There is good reason for sights: one needs them to align the barrel with the target reliably....

The Modern Technique wasn't just "plucked from thin air." It evolved from competitions held in in Big Bear Lake, California by the Southwest Combat Pistol League. The competitions were based on courses of fire which attempted to represent real life situations and thus test methods of effectively using a pistol for self defense. Leaders in the competitions included Jeff Cooper, Jack Weaver, Ray Chapman, Elden Carl, Thell Reed, John Plähn, Bruce Nelson (designer of the "Summer Special" holster) and Michael Harries (who developed the the Harries Technique of using a flashlight with a gun).

While Thell Reed was noted for point shooting "fast draw" exhibitions, he was thoroughly grounded in the Modern Technique as well. He did a lot of gun coaching for the movies. Here he's training actor Michael Rooker with a 1911. Note that he tell Rooker (at about 0.13), "Focus on the front sight...."

[g.willikers]

grey.ghost,
Your method is the way I do it, too, sort of.
I use the sights for a reference.
If the sights, both of them, aren't automatically aligned on the target as I'm taking the shot, that says something is amiss.
Front sight focus probably developed for teaching new shooters to be somewhat sure where they are shooting.
And plenty useful for close in shooting that doesn't require precise high and low accuracy.
Beats the heck out of just shooting in the general direction of the target.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by g.willikers

...Front sight focus probably developed for teaching new shooters to be somewhat sure where they are shooting.
And plenty useful for close in shooting that doesn't require precise high and low accuracy....

Nope. It's actually the "gold standard" for marksmanship.

From The Army Marksmanship Unit Pistol Marksmanship Unit Training Guide (pg 18):

...Correct sight alignment must be thoroughly understood and practiced. It appears on the surface as a simple thing - this lining up of two objects, front and rear sights. The problem lies in the difficulty in maintaining these two sights in precise alignment while the shooter is maintaining a minimum arc of movement and pressing the trigger to cause the hammer to fall without disturbing sight alignment.

The solution is partly in focusing the eye on the front sight during the delivery of the shot.....

and on pg 19:

...It is imperative to maintain 'front slight point of focus" throughout the sighting and aiming of the pistol. The shooter must concentrate on maintaining the correct relationship between front and rear sight, and the point of focus must be on the front sight during the short period required to deliver the shot. If the focus is displaced forward, and the target is momentarily in clear focus, the ability of shooter to achieve correct sight alignment is jeopardized for that moment. Frequently, this is the moment that the pistol fires. A controlled, accurate shot is impossible under these conditions.....

[grey.ghost]

Very interesting information

[4EVERM-14]

pete2's question about putting shots into a 50 yard 10 ring is probably the key to the OP's situation. What level of accuracy is desired? For the competition target shooter there is a specific size area that is the goal. The 10 ring is a little over 3 ". For the rifle shooter the X ring at 600 yards is 6". That level of precision requires fastidious attention to sight alignment and sight picture. For the action pistol shooter the goal is speed and modest accuracy. That accepted level sacrifices precision for accelerated target acquisition. The differences in the requirements between essentially hitting a target versus placing a shot in a specific spot on the target are where the two aiming methods differ.

[Hunter Customs]

Back in the mid 1980's the Marine's had a class in point shooting. They called the class "quick skill" or something like that. It was all based on point shooting. Some Marines got real good at it, others struggled with it.

In 1968 the Army taught me the point shooting method to be used in close quarter battle, they called it "Quick Kill".
We went to the "Quick Kill" ranges on a regular basis to develop the skill required in using it.

We used the technique with handgun, rifle and shotgun.
With the rifle and shotgun we were taught not to shoulder the weapon, instead you slapped the stock under your arm pit pinching the stock between your arm and the side of your chest.

You focused on your target and the weapon was in your focal cone but you were not focused on it.

For longer distance shooting I do focus on the front sight.

[bamaranger]

I've been around some point shooters, all "old hands" , and they did pretty well on our qualification course, which had most of its shooting (90%?) done at 3-7-15 yds.

But when presented with odd targets, at odd angles unknown distances, and improvised positions, their shooting suffered. I suspect they had shot the qual course so many times they had developed a sort of muscle memory to get hits and passing scores at the given distances and the agency target.

There was a time when I did a fair amount of handgunning for groundhogs. Shots ranged out to about 50 yds, using a 6" M27. I don't think one would hit many groundhogs point shooting.

Finally, there was at one time a YouTube video supposedly showing Navy Seals on their handgun qual course. ONe might be able to find that video and use it as a yardstick for handgun proficiency.

[bamaranger]

I'd add that for me the experience was similar, but results reversed.

As a kid, my dad taught me to shoot also, and I never heard about "focus on the front sight", handgun or rifle either. When I got a bit of training, and started applying focus, my shooting improved, markedly.

Also, when coaching bamaboy, and observing him shoot now for about a decade, its pretty apparent by hits and scores as to when he's on his front sight,and when he's not.

One phrase I've heard used is that your front sight is a "bullet strike indicator", or words to that effect.