Cowboy action rifle and shotgun?

JarYetz · May 16, 2009, 03:23 PM

Hey guys, I am looking to get into some actual cowboy action shooting now that I have 2 1858 Remingtons, but I have some questions about the rifle and shotgun.

I have an 94 Winchester 30-30, lever action. That a viable rifle?

I just grabbed this shotgun today to fix up from a family member, but I don't know anything about it. Here are some pics, any info would be appreciated, especially concerning whether or not I can use it in CAS.

Thanks!

JarYetz · May 16, 2009, 03:39 PM

Just found the SN on the shotgun: 465210

B.L.E. · May 16, 2009, 04:19 PM

The rifle has to be a "pistol caliber" for CAS I believe. No jacketed bullets are allowed. What you want is a lever action rifle in .44-40, .38-40, or whatever caliber your revolvers shoot. That way you don't have to mess with different types of ammo. You also want a magazine capacity of at least 10 shots in the rifle, most stages call for a rifle loaded with 10 rounds.

The shotgun is legal if it has extractors, not if it has ejectors. If the empty shells pop out of the chambers when you break it open, it has ejectors and the ejector springs will have to be removed or unhooked to be legal.

Fingers McGee · May 16, 2009, 11:09 PM

What B.L.E. said.

Rifle must be pistol caliber lever or pump action firing lead bullets only. Most popular calibers are 38/357, 44-40 and 45 Colt.

The shotgun you have is perfectly legal.

Best advice I can give is for you to attend a couple local matches ato see what everyone is using and to ask as many questions as you can. You will find that most CAS shooters are friendly willing to answer any questions you have, and will let you try their firearms.

Hawg · May 17, 2009, 02:17 PM

What B.L.E and Fingers said. The shotgun is fine but if it has ejectors they have to be disconnected. The safety can also be disconnected.

JarYetz · May 18, 2009, 03:08 PM

Hey, does anyone happen to know what chamber length that shotgun might have?

Hawg · May 18, 2009, 04:31 PM

I think it's new enough to have 2 3/4 but might want to measure to be sure.

JarYetz · May 18, 2009, 07:56 PM

I'm actually newb enough that I didn't realize it was measurable.

It is indeed 2.75 inches. Thanks for the info, Hawg.

mrappe · May 19, 2009, 02:25 PM

FYI Stay away from the Win 1894 rifles in 45LC. That was the first one that I had when I started CAS. They would jam and a round would fall under the elevator. I knew several people that had them break. I think that is was because the '94 was never designed for 45LC. In fact I would not buy a lever rifle in .45LC since none of them were designed originally for them. I would suggest a Marlin Cowboy, Win 66, Win 73, Win 92 or Henry (Clones included)for pistol caliber rifles. the 1894 Win was desined for the 30-30 and that works well but you cannot use in in regular CAS matches since it is a rifle cartridge. I have a Rossi 92 clone an old Winchester 73 and a old Winchester 92 and they all wok fine but the Rossi 92 are very stiff at first and need to be slicked up.

JarYetz · May 21, 2009, 07:47 AM

Looks like the only thing I need is a rifle.

Thanks for some info there, Mrappe.

I'm gonna ask if anyone can make any economical suggestions for a rifle to buy on a budget? Anything I can get for less than 400, 500 tops to get me into CAS?

Hawg · May 21, 2009, 08:00 AM

I've heard the newer Rossi's are pretty slick and the Puma(no longer Rossi)is pretty slick but the old Rossi's can be slicked up pretty good with white lithium grease and working the action a couple of hours. Some of the levers handle .45's just fine but the 94 isn't generally one of them. The 94 was designed for a rifle round.

Dingoboyx · May 21, 2009, 08:14 AM

Good idea to stay well clear of the Winchester '94 rifle for CAS. I started shooting CAS with a Win '94 Little Big Horn in 44-40, it was brand new, never fired when I got it, but the action is terribly clunky (as all Win '94's evidently are).... JAM-a-Matic! nothing but jam, jam, jam.....

The reason being, the action on the 94 brings the round up at about a 45 degree angle from the mag to the breach.... when you try to cycle fast, the bullet often stands straight up, or crashes into the breech, or the spent case falls back in the ejector port causing a jam.... was awfull and very embarrassing

I now have a '94 Marlin, 23" cowboy in 44 mag.... not slicked or anything, but super smooth and fast

The earlier Winchesters are ok, coz the bullets come up from the tube mag flat and feed much better.

Correct, 30-30 is not useable in CAS.

That shotgun looks fine, most folk I know shoot coachguns, but a few use longer barrels.... so no probs.

Fingers.... 44 magnum is a good CAS caliber for rifle too

I shoot 2 x Vaquaro's, 5 1/2" (old west mottly case hardening) in .44mag & the Marlin in 44mag & have a Rossi hammered coachgun (hammers are a bit slow, I wouldnt reccommend it to a noob)

mrappe · May 22, 2009, 10:19 AM

If you shoot 44 mag should'nt you load your own since the factory ammo may be to hot for CAS shooting?

Hawg · May 22, 2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

If you shoot 44 mag should'nt you load your own since the factory ammo may be to hot for CAS shooting?

Yes or use .44 SPCL. CAS has a max limit of 1000 fps for pistols and without looking it up I think 1400 fps for rifles. No jacketed bullets are allowed.

May 16, 2009, 11:09 PM	#4
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	What B.L.E. said. Rifle must be pistol caliber lever or pump action firing lead bullets only. Most popular calibers are 38/357, 44-40 and 45 Colt. The shotgun you have is perfectly legal. Best advice I can give is for you to attend a couple local matches ato see what everyone is using and to ask as many questions as you can. You will find that most CAS shooters are friendly willing to answer any questions you have, and will let you try their firearms. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

May 21, 2009, 08:14 AM	#12
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	+1 mrappe Good idea to stay well clear of the Winchester '94 rifle for CAS. I started shooting CAS with a Win '94 Little Big Horn in 44-40, it was brand new, never fired when I got it, but the action is terribly clunky (as all Win '94's evidently are).... JAM-a-Matic! nothing but jam, jam, jam..... The reason being, the action on the 94 brings the round up at about a 45 degree angle from the mag to the breach.... when you try to cycle fast, the bullet often stands straight up, or crashes into the breech, or the spent case falls back in the ejector port causing a jam.... was awfull and very embarrassing I now have a '94 Marlin, 23" cowboy in 44 mag.... not slicked or anything, but super smooth and fast The earlier Winchesters are ok, coz the bullets come up from the tube mag flat and feed much better. Correct, 30-30 is not useable in CAS. That shotgun looks fine, most folk I know shoot coachguns, but a few use longer barrels.... so no probs. Fingers.... 44 magnum is a good CAS caliber for rifle too I shoot 2 x Vaquaro's, 5 1/2" (old west mottly case hardening) in .44mag & the Marlin in 44mag & have a Rossi hammered coachgun (hammers are a bit slow, I wouldnt reccommend it to a noob) __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

May 16, 2009, 03:39 PM	#2
JarYetz Member Join Date: April 26, 2009 Location: Mohnton, PA Posts: 73	Just found the SN on the shotgun: 465210

May 16, 2009, 04:19 PM	#3
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	The rifle has to be a "pistol caliber" for CAS I believe. No jacketed bullets are allowed. What you want is a lever action rifle in .44-40, .38-40, or whatever caliber your revolvers shoot. That way you don't have to mess with different types of ammo. You also want a magazine capacity of at least 10 shots in the rifle, most stages call for a rifle loaded with 10 rounds. The shotgun is legal if it has extractors, not if it has ejectors. If the empty shells pop out of the chambers when you break it open, it has ejectors and the ejector springs will have to be removed or unhooked to be legal.

May 17, 2009, 02:17 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	What B.L.E and Fingers said. The shotgun is fine but if it has ejectors they have to be disconnected. The safety can also be disconnected.

May 18, 2009, 03:08 PM	#6
JarYetz Member Join Date: April 26, 2009 Location: Mohnton, PA Posts: 73	Hey, does anyone happen to know what chamber length that shotgun might have?

May 18, 2009, 04:31 PM	#7
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I think it's new enough to have 2 3/4 but might want to measure to be sure.

May 18, 2009, 07:56 PM	#8
JarYetz Member Join Date: April 26, 2009 Location: Mohnton, PA Posts: 73	I'm actually newb enough that I didn't realize it was measurable. It is indeed 2.75 inches. Thanks for the info, Hawg.

May 19, 2009, 02:25 PM	#9
mrappe Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 256	FYI Stay away from the Win 1894 rifles in 45LC. That was the first one that I had when I started CAS. They would jam and a round would fall under the elevator. I knew several people that had them break. I think that is was because the '94 was never designed for 45LC. In fact I would not buy a lever rifle in .45LC since none of them were designed originally for them. I would suggest a Marlin Cowboy, Win 66, Win 73, Win 92 or Henry (Clones included)for pistol caliber rifles. the 1894 Win was desined for the 30-30 and that works well but you cannot use in in regular CAS matches since it is a rifle cartridge. I have a Rossi 92 clone an old Winchester 73 and a old Winchester 92 and they all wok fine but the Rossi 92 are very stiff at first and need to be slicked up.

May 21, 2009, 07:47 AM	#10
JarYetz Member Join Date: April 26, 2009 Location: Mohnton, PA Posts: 73	Looks like the only thing I need is a rifle. Thanks for some info there, Mrappe. I'm gonna ask if anyone can make any economical suggestions for a rifle to buy on a budget? Anything I can get for less than 400, 500 tops to get me into CAS?

May 21, 2009, 08:00 AM	#11
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I've heard the newer Rossi's are pretty slick and the Puma(no longer Rossi)is pretty slick but the old Rossi's can be slicked up pretty good with white lithium grease and working the action a couple of hours. Some of the levers handle .45's just fine but the 94 isn't generally one of them. The 94 was designed for a rifle round.

May 22, 2009, 10:19 AM	#13
mrappe Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 256	If you shoot 44 mag should'nt you load your own since the factory ammo may be to hot for CAS shooting?