Very Basic Questions

Smith and Wesson · July 3, 2014, 05:07 PM

I am looking to get into reloading and have some basic questions. I have not bought a press or other reloading equipment yet, and I have yet to even see a cartridge be reloaded, so take in mind that I have no experience what so ever.
(1). How important is adjust the distance from lands if you're only trying to get MOA accuracy?
(2). How many loads does it take, on average, to get MOA groups out of a rifle of proven accuracy (just an estimate of the average number of loads; I don't expect exact numbers)?
(3). How do you adjust the seating depth of the bullet?
(4). How many rounds of each recipe do you load for accuracy testing in load development?

jwrowland77 · July 3, 2014, 05:18 PM

The first and most important thing, IMHO would be to get a book like the ABCs of Reloading and buy a manual. These will tell you so much about the reloading process and will even answer questions like number three.

1) It can play a role. It really all depends how close or how far off the lands your rifle likes

2 & 4) My workup consists of doing 3 rounds at each charge from min I max in .3gr increments. This is how I do mine. Depending on the spread will depends on how many rounds. Once I find an load or two in there, I'll fine tune it from there.

3) I answered in the beginning.

cdoc42 · July 4, 2014, 07:20 AM

(1). How important is adjust the distance from lands if you're only trying to get MOA accuracy?

I think without adjusting that distance, any accurate load is just luck. Example: my .25-06: Hornady 120hr HP seated 0.02" from the lands, 4 shots @ 100 yds= 0.274" A Sierra 120gr HP had to be seated 0.015" to get a 4-shot group of 0.368" Both with 50gr of H1000

(2). How many loads does it take, on average, to get MOA groups out of a rifle of proven accuracy
Tough to answer; if the rifle has a "proven accuracy" what's the point of experimenting with any new loads?

(3). How do you adjust the seating depth of the bullet?
The description may not fit here; see next post.

(4). How many rounds of each recipe do you load for accuracy testing in load development?
I start with 3; with best groups the next round I use 5

PA-Joe · July 4, 2014, 07:33 AM

Most rifle dies come is a two die set. One deprimes and resizes and the other seats and crimps the bullet. You screw the seating stem up or down to adjust seating depth.

As recommended get a good reloading book and start buying the things you will need. Power is hard to find. Also start saving your range brass. That is the most costly item.

cdoc42 · July 4, 2014, 07:38 AM

Adjusting for seating depth:

Do not measure from the bullet tip to the case base. I use the "Chamber-All Bullet Comparator" inserts on your caliper which will measure from the ogive to the base.

1) Drop the bullet into the chamber of your rifle and lightly tap it against the lands just to keep it in place with a cleaning rod.
2) Insert the cleaning rod into the muzzle and lower it until it touches the bullet
3) Make a half-circle on the rod with a fine-line "Magic marker"
4) Knock the bullet out with the rod and seat it in a dummy (empty) case at a length that is obviously too long. Try to load it in your chamber. If too long, it won't chamber. Seat slightly lower and keep going until it chambers with some resistance.
5) Insert the cleaning rod back into the muzzle until it touches the bullet. Make a full-circle mark with the marker.

Extract the rod and examine the marks. If all goes well, you will see one circle. That round has a bullet right at the lands. Measure from the ogive to the base and subtract 0.01, 0.015 and 0.020 from that measurement to get measurements for your experimental rounds.

Any difference between the half-circle and full circle represents how far away you are (short or long) from the lands. If the bullet was seated too deeply you need to knock it out slightly, rechamber and measure again. If too long, reseat slightly and repeat measurements. I rarely have this problem. Usually when chambered in to the lands it matches the half-circle.

You need to do this for each different bullet, e.g., Hornady vs Sierra, etc. as the bullet designs do not have the ogive in the same location.

1stmar · July 4, 2014, 07:40 AM

Moa (at 100yds) should not be to difficult to get, especially if the rifle is proven. A number of calibers have "known" well established loads. A lot depends on how many shots in a group you are talking about, 3,5, more? Distance from the lands will be , in part, dictated by the rifle. If it's an auto loader you may not be able to get to touching. If you have a factory load that works, chances are it isn't touching the rifling, you shouldn't have to spend a lot of time on seating depth. I start with well known loads and then work from there. Obviously working up to those loads for pressure concerns. 3 shot groups while doing load development is common though everyone has there own techniques.

cdoc42 · July 4, 2014, 07:44 AM

Re: PA-Joe's post: you need not crimp for a bolt-action rifle. That will raise pressure beyond that seen in recommended book receipes. Any cannelure on a rifle bullet is not there as a seating recommendation, but as a constriction to limit the expansion in the target at that point.

5whiskey · July 4, 2014, 08:16 AM

1) Adjusting seating depth can help greatly. Others have provided sufficient advice on how to do this. I will only caution that you should be careful to not seat the bullet "on" the lands as this could raise pressure to dangerous levels.

2) If you have a very accurate rifle, you may find the second load you work up is under 1 moa. It may take you 4,5,6, or even 10 loads to get the optimum accuracy out of it... it may be a .5moa or better rifle and it usually takes a little effort to get there.

3)covered.

4)I load 10 or 15, personally. Either 2 or 3 five shot groups. I think 3 groups are better, but if I'm in a time crunch I'll go with 2.

totaldla · July 4, 2014, 10:15 AM

There are lots of variables that affect accuracy, and they get discussed ad nauseum on forums. What is usually never mentioned is how each variable is ranked in terms of importance (i.e whether is primary, secondary, tertiary importance). Seating depth is one of those variables that is secondary at best, and yet receives the attention of primary importance.

My point is that what many of us discover when we first start reloading is that our carefully crafted reloads don't perform better than off-the-shelf fodder from Walmart. And the off-the-shelf fodder certainly didn't optimize the seating depth for our rifle

SSA · July 4, 2014, 11:56 AM

Some cartridges are more likely than others to produce good results easily. Let's say you have a rifle of proven accuracy chambered for something like 243, 7mm-08, 308, or 30/06.
There is a good chance that you can pick a recommended load out of a book, (work up to it if it's toward the hot end,) load a Hornady spire point bullet seated to the cannelure, and shoot 1 MOA 3-shot groups.

**Unclenick** · July 4, 2014, 03:34 PM

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