Ignorant M1A/M14 question, Titanium firing pin?

dog3 · October 16, 1999, 02:44 PM

This is a question by someone who really doesn't know anything.

I have recently read about the use of
titainium firing pins. Had it explained that
the lower mass of the firing pin reduces the
time from hammerfall to cartridge ignition.
Sorta makes sense.

I've also read that M1A/M14 weapons have been known to fire out of battery due to the mass of the stock firing pin being carried into the primer by its own momentum.

I've not seen or read anything to indicate that a light(er) firing pin exists for this weapon.

Is there a light firing pin? Would it matter if there were?

thanx in advance.

Gale McMillan · October 16, 1999, 04:21 PM

I have seen more grief caused by super light firing pins by creating inconstant ignition than the speeded up lock time helped. It takes mass to create momentum which aids in solid ignition. You can not increase spring tension to make up for loss in momentum. At least that's what I think. .

Wallew · October 16, 1999, 04:57 PM

I've talked to both major manufacturer and minor one. Neither makes a titanium or TN coated firing pin for M1A/M14. So its a moot point. If you find one, drop me a line as to where you got it. Could you send one of yours in and have it TiN coated. Probably. Wouldn't be cheap, but you could probably find someone who could/would do it for you.

**4V50 Gary** · October 16, 1999, 08:59 PM

In theory the M1 Garand, M14 or M1A and its descendent, the Mini14 should not fire out of battery if the firing pin is properly fitted. The bridge of the receiver (or web) cams the firing pin tail and in doing so, prevents the firing pin from moving forward. When the bolt lugs are locked up, the firing pin tail should be cammed down such that it is permitted to move forward. That's a safety feature engineered by John Garand (and one which isn't executed very well on Springfield Inc. receivers).

------------------
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

dog3 · October 18, 1999, 12:52 PM

Thank you for the enlightenment (oof!)

I have not had any malfuctions, nor
do lockup times concern me. I pull the
trigger, the weapon fires, I don't,
it doesn't.

I was just curious, trying to learn.

Thanks again for the responses.

Cheapo · October 19, 1999, 01:26 AM

Dog3:

IMO, the mass of the M1/M14 series firing pin is so small compared to the hammer, lock time would not be affected in any significant way by lightening the pin.

4V50 Gary is correct about the camming design of the system. The pin is free to flop back and forth during the rest of the operating cycle, but it hits the receiver abutment as the bolt reaches its last 1/8-inch or so of forward travel. The bolt continues forward, and must rotate probably 3/4 of its way closed before the pin has hope of contacting the primer.

On a properly fitted and not worn out specimen. Worn firing pin tails and worn camming surfaces can change that, but such is a VERY rare condition. None of my 10,000 to 30,000 round buddies has seen this happen yet.

The bolt gun experience showed me that the best way to shorten lock time is to shorten the distance the relevant parts must move. Strikers moving 3/16 of an inch under heavy spring pressure are very fast.

The accuracy "edge" is overstated--If you are holding the rifle perfectly still, there is no gain at all. Introduce wobble, and there's a *chance* that you may move off-target in the small time between trigger release and the bullet clearing the barrel.

Can't speak to the lock time, but the total time for .22 LR rifles to spit the bullet out leaves me with a need for a perceptibly longer follow-through than needed for highpower rifles. Barrel time on the .22 is longer. Highpower shots in the standing position tend to yield tighter groups under worse conditions for me because the bullet screams out of there so fast--before I wobble back off target.

October 16, 1999, 02:44 PM	#1
dog3 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 1999 Posts: 194	This is a question by someone who really doesn't know anything. I have recently read about the use of titainium firing pins. Had it explained that the lower mass of the firing pin reduces the time from hammerfall to cartridge ignition. Sorta makes sense. I've also read that M1A/M14 weapons have been known to fire out of battery due to the mass of the stock firing pin being carried into the primer by its own momentum. I've not seen or read anything to indicate that a light(er) firing pin exists for this weapon. Is there a light firing pin? Would it matter if there were? thanx in advance.

October 16, 1999, 04:21 PM	#2
Gale McMillan Member In Memoriam Join Date: September 10, 1999 Posts: 411	I have seen more grief caused by super light firing pins by creating inconstant ignition than the speeded up lock time helped. It takes mass to create momentum which aids in solid ignition. You can not increase spring tension to make up for loss in momentum. At least that's what I think. .

October 16, 1999, 04:57 PM	#3
Wallew Junior member Join Date: October 3, 1999 Posts: 910	I've talked to both major manufacturer and minor one. Neither makes a titanium or TN coated firing pin for M1A/M14. So its a moot point. If you find one, drop me a line as to where you got it. Could you send one of yours in and have it TiN coated. Probably. Wouldn't be cheap, but you could probably find someone who could/would do it for you.

October 16, 1999, 08:59 PM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	In theory the M1 Garand, M14 or M1A and its descendent, the Mini14 should not fire out of battery if the firing pin is properly fitted. The bridge of the receiver (or web) cams the firing pin tail and in doing so, prevents the firing pin from moving forward. When the bolt lugs are locked up, the firing pin tail should be cammed down such that it is permitted to move forward. That's a safety feature engineered by John Garand (and one which isn't executed very well on Springfield Inc. receivers). ------------------ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

October 18, 1999, 12:52 PM	#5
dog3 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 1999 Posts: 194	Thank you for the enlightenment (oof!) I have not had any malfuctions, nor do lockup times concern me. I pull the trigger, the weapon fires, I don't, it doesn't. I was just curious, trying to learn. Thanks again for the responses.

October 19, 1999, 01:26 AM	#6
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Dog3: IMO, the mass of the M1/M14 series firing pin is so small compared to the hammer, lock time would not be affected in any significant way by lightening the pin. 4V50 Gary is correct about the camming design of the system. The pin is free to flop back and forth during the rest of the operating cycle, but it hits the receiver abutment as the bolt reaches its last 1/8-inch or so of forward travel. The bolt continues forward, and must rotate probably 3/4 of its way closed before the pin has hope of contacting the primer. On a properly fitted and not worn out specimen. Worn firing pin tails and worn camming surfaces can change that, but such is a VERY rare condition. None of my 10,000 to 30,000 round buddies has seen this happen yet. The bolt gun experience showed me that the best way to shorten lock time is to shorten the distance the relevant parts must move. Strikers moving 3/16 of an inch under heavy spring pressure are very fast. The accuracy "edge" is overstated--If you are holding the rifle perfectly still, there is no gain at all. Introduce wobble, and there's a chance that you may move off-target in the small time between trigger release and the bullet clearing the barrel. Can't speak to the lock time, but the total time for .22 LR rifles to spit the bullet out leaves me with a need for a perceptibly longer follow-through than needed for highpower rifles. Barrel time on the .22 is longer. Highpower shots in the standing position tend to yield tighter groups under worse conditions for me because the bullet screams out of there so fast--before I wobble back off target.