Over Max. for Trail Boss?

fshfindr · May 5, 2014, 07:50 PM

Hodgdon indicates that 2.3 gr. of Trail Boss is the max. for 38 spec 148 LWC. I know that you are never supposed to go over the max. I fired 100 rounds of it today and even though I do not like hand gun kick, this has no feel at all. There is very little smoke which is great so there is little to dislike about the powder. The fellow next to me said there was no sound from the gun (GP100). I've only loaded Unique until now so this is new to me. For 158 gr. LSWC 2.7-4.2 gr. is recommended so I wonder if a little more will be OK for 148 gr. LWCs. Any thoughts or experience?

Kappe · May 5, 2014, 08:23 PM

I'd refer you to IMR's formula for loading cartridges with Trail Boss. They state as long as you don't compress the charge, it's safe.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

Remember wadcutters are seated deeper than normal bullets. That may be why your data only suggests 2.3 grains for your 148 grain wadcutter.
Any more and you may be crushing those little doughnuts and changing the behavior of the powder entirely.
Don't rely on how loud or how hard a load kicks.

Good luck.

Brian Pfleuger · May 5, 2014, 08:45 PM

Trail Boss is a very low density (takes up a lot of space per grain), fast burning powder. It's designed for low power, low recoil loads. It can be loaded to 100% fill under the bullet but should not be compressed unless their data specifically allows it for the given load. You will get almost no recoil even at max loads. It burns super clean too.

BOOMST1CK · May 5, 2014, 10:05 PM

The only load i worked up with trail boss that I liked was in 38 spl with a 125 gr plated projectile out of a 38 colt snub nose. I like loading up 110 gr xtp with tralboss to in the same gun, but if I run these rounds in my gp-100 with a 6 in barrel they are more like bunny farts, and drop fast after 50 yards. Like others have said,, just dont compress it, it gets angry.

rclark · May 6, 2014, 09:02 AM

The rule of thumb is not to compress TB and you'll be fine. Good rule to live by as TB being a fast powder, pressure goes up quickly.

That said, TB can be compressed. In .44Mag for example, The Hornady Manual shows 9.6g (under 240g bullet) which almost fills the case before a bullet is seated. Obviously a compressed load. I tested up to 9.5g during my TB testing period under 240g SWC. I settled on 8.0g as the load I'd use for .44Mag (900fps load). Looking for high velocity ... look elsewhere.

fshfindr · May 6, 2014, 12:26 PM

I had heard that formula before but not from IMR. Yesterday, I found this site (http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/) which says that 2.3 is the max. I mentioned the sound only as an indicator. No noise is OK with me. I was concerned that it was not strong enough because I had to raise my sights about 4 full clicks and I was using the 12 yd range. At 12 yards 4 clicks is about 8 inches. I found it hard to believe that it would drop that far. Are you certain that info is from IMR?

Brian Pfleuger · May 6, 2014, 12:30 PM

That information is from IMR. Look at the site address, it's IMRpowder.com

It's been known for several years that Trail Boss can be used that way.

That number they're listing for the 148gr is a "Cowboy Load" me thinks... notice that the max for a 158gr LSWC is almost twice as high.

fshfindr · May 7, 2014, 12:31 PM

Brian, it's me with the hard head. I called IMR (913-362-9455) and Dave answered the phone and indicated that your formula is correct. He said that I could use the same formula with 357's and other rounds with no problem. He correctly advised that it should not be done with any other powder. Thanks.

May 5, 2014, 07:50 PM	#1
fshfindr Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 188	Over Max. for Trail Boss? Hodgdon indicates that 2.3 gr. of Trail Boss is the max. for 38 spec 148 LWC. I know that you are never supposed to go over the max. I fired 100 rounds of it today and even though I do not like hand gun kick, this has no feel at all. There is very little smoke which is great so there is little to dislike about the powder. The fellow next to me said there was no sound from the gun (GP100). I've only loaded Unique until now so this is new to me. For 158 gr. LSWC 2.7-4.2 gr. is recommended so I wonder if a little more will be OK for 148 gr. LWCs. Any thoughts or experience? __________________ Richard L.

May 6, 2014, 09:02 AM	#5
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,622	The rule of thumb is not to compress TB and you'll be fine. Good rule to live by as TB being a fast powder, pressure goes up quickly. That said, TB can be compressed. In .44Mag for example, The Hornady Manual shows 9.6g (under 240g bullet) which almost fills the case before a bullet is seated. Obviously a compressed load. I tested up to 9.5g during my TB testing period under 240g SWC. I settled on 8.0g as the load I'd use for .44Mag (900fps load). Looking for high velocity ... look elsewhere. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

May 6, 2014, 12:26 PM	#6
fshfindr Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 188	I had heard that formula before but not from IMR. Yesterday, I found this site (http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/) which says that 2.3 is the max. I mentioned the sound only as an indicator. No noise is OK with me. I was concerned that it was not strong enough because I had to raise my sights about 4 full clicks and I was using the 12 yd range. At 12 yards 4 clicks is about 8 inches. I found it hard to believe that it would drop that far. Are you certain that info is from IMR? __________________ Richard L.

May 6, 2014, 12:30 PM	#7
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	That information is from IMR. Look at the site address, it's IMRpowder.com It's been known for several years that Trail Boss can be used that way. That number they're listing for the 148gr is a "Cowboy Load" me thinks... notice that the max for a 158gr LSWC is almost twice as high. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

May 7, 2014, 12:31 PM	#8
fshfindr Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 188	Brian, it's me with the hard head. I called IMR (913-362-9455) and Dave answered the phone and indicated that your formula is correct. He said that I could use the same formula with 357's and other rounds with no problem. He correctly advised that it should not be done with any other powder. Thanks. __________________ Richard L.

May 5, 2014, 08:23 PM	#2
Kappe Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2013 Location: New Jersey Posts: 149	I'd refer you to IMR's formula for loading cartridges with Trail Boss. They state as long as you don't compress the charge, it's safe. http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf Remember wadcutters are seated deeper than normal bullets. That may be why your data only suggests 2.3 grains for your 148 grain wadcutter. Any more and you may be crushing those little doughnuts and changing the behavior of the powder entirely. Don't rely on how loud or how hard a load kicks. Good luck.

May 5, 2014, 08:45 PM	#3
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Trail Boss is a very low density (takes up a lot of space per grain), fast burning powder. It's designed for low power, low recoil loads. It can be loaded to 100% fill under the bullet but should not be compressed unless their data specifically allows it for the given load. You will get almost no recoil even at max loads. It burns super clean too.

May 5, 2014, 10:05 PM	#4
BOOMST1CK Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2014 Posts: 117	The only load i worked up with trail boss that I liked was in 38 spl with a 125 gr plated projectile out of a 38 colt snub nose. I like loading up 110 gr xtp with tralboss to in the same gun, but if I run these rounds in my gp-100 with a 6 in barrel they are more like bunny farts, and drop fast after 50 yards. Like others have said,, just dont compress it, it gets angry.