December 23, 2014, 09:03 PM | #1 |
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Browning BAR as a DMR?
I picked up a 1989 Grade I BAR in 30.06. Realized I may have taken a bit of a bath on it after detailed inspection. Scratches and significant wear in the finish (definitely needs refinishing), chips in the buttstock, rust leaking from under the scope mount. The barrel needs re-crowning. Nothing awful, but by the time I'm done making it into a shooter, or even attempting at restoring some of the re-sale value, I'll be in the hole about 50% what I've spent. SO, let's just consider for a minute, money aside, that I go for a DMR kindof motif with this. I have a vision of this rifle with a thumbhole stock, ceracoat or duracoat finish (I haven't decided yet) a decent scope. I don't have thousands to throw into it, but if I wanted to consciously put as much money into this project as I spent on the rifle alone, (probably close to $800[I'm a moron and didn't do any research, and bought it on impulse.]) would this be a worthwhile project?
(Not for monetary reasons, more as an "I really like this" kind of rifle). I think I can bring this thing back to life. At least give it a fair chance at life. I had a smith look it over and he said it had been poorly maintained and treated as a bang-around gun (most likely). The collector value is already gone... I figure why not try something cool with it? Thoughts, feelings, advice, considerations? By the way this is my first post on here. Be gentle! |
December 24, 2014, 09:07 AM | #2 |
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May I suggest contacting Mark Hartman of James River Armory, located in Halethorpe, Maryland who restores firearms. I've seen Mark shoot his WW2Browning BAR, occasionally at our range.
Sorry...if I'm talking about the wrong type of rifle.
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December 24, 2014, 10:04 AM | #3 |
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Sounds like you are wanting to turn it into one of the more modern offerings by FNH. Their FNAR is basically a BAR that has a matte finish, synthetic pistol grip stock, and a built in rail for optics.
I'd say the concept is sound. Google FNAR to get some inspiration for your project. The concept of a DMR is to add field level accuracy platform and target ID improvement on a Squad level. The Soviets and Warsaw Pact countries were ahead of us on using the concept. 2MOA was acceptable accuracy to make torso hits out to 600 meters reliably. The BAR should be capable of that. But the hunting style BAR is not designed for combat type conditions. They are tough, but not exactly battle rifles. However, you probably aren't taking it to combat, and it should do fine in tough hunting conditions. |
December 24, 2014, 10:49 AM | #4 |
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Sounds like a fun project, I say go for it.
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December 24, 2014, 11:41 AM | #5 |
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Do whatever you want as a project gun, but understand the BAR is not a combat weapon & is not easily maintained in the field.
It can shoot as a hunter, but it's kinda a nuisance to break down. Denis |
December 24, 2014, 12:50 PM | #6 |
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Thanks guys. It'll most likely be a target rifle. I'm not a huge hunter. Just wanted to make something neat for range trips.I'll post pics when it's done!
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December 24, 2014, 05:43 PM | #7 |
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Sounds good! I have the Winchester version of the FNAR and it's an moa rifle. You're not in combat, and likely won't be, but it's a clean shooting gun and you don't need to to much more than run a boresnake through it. No need to break it all the way down. But it should be able to put a couple magazines worth of bullets down the tube pretty accurately.
Shoot and scoot as they say. |
December 26, 2014, 04:49 PM | #8 |
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MD,
I like the way you think! Most people make an impulse buy ,then complain and bellyache about getting ripped off. I've made a few impulse buys before. After kicking myself , I went ahead and sorted it out, as you are doing. I bet everyone here, that's been around awhile, has made an impulse but that didn't turn out quite as they expected. Good on you! I can't wait to see your rifle when you finish. Ugly don't mean bad inside. That's what I tell my wife anyway... |
December 27, 2014, 09:57 PM | #9 |
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You know, I've done it once or twice, but being upset doesn't really help the problem. It's not in really rough shape at all, but the little things here and there either left alone, or fixed will diminish any "collector's value", and that's pretty much gone as it is. The only thing that really does get annoying is the fact that there is almost NO information on these rifles as far as mods or even maintenance really. From what I gather (I'm NOT an expert, not even close) there seem to be many variations of this rifle within browning (grades I-V, Type 1&2's, Belgian and Portuguese assembled, Short-trac, Long-Trac, Safari, Hogstalker, etc.) Most of which have many parts that only fit their types. Expensive parts. A factory replacement stock for this rifle runs $175. Stock and forend sets range form there, up to $350. I'm not looking to turn this into a tactical-black rifle with a quad rail and a grenade launcher (though that is a thought, I guess...) But even a factory replacement mag runs about $65. Though I got lucky and found one for $20 on ebay. All in all by the time I really make it mine, and put some cool factor back into it, it will never be worth it to sell it. So, I say when life hands you a Browning rifle...
I found this online. It's not exactly what I had in mind, but it is in the ball park. I really dig that stock. http://www.greystoneguns.co.nz/proje...-browning-bar/ |
December 28, 2014, 09:32 AM | #10 |
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Key thing is to have a good barrel. That's 90% of your accuracy right there. So, if it doesn't shoot an acceptable MOA, it might need rebarreling.
On acceptable MOA, that changes with time. During WW II, a 2" MOA was acceptable for a No 4(T) sniper rifle. Modernly we expect 1" from our rifles today and if it's a "sniper" or varminter rifle, sub 1" MOA. Second, work on the trigger. Crisp. The forearm should not be neglected either. Clearly it can't be freefloated, but it can be stabilized to ensure consistent contact. The shooter should be aware never to put pressure on the barrel as it can bend the barrel and affect the POI. Final thing is the stock itself. One disadvantage of the BAR is its two piece stock (forearm is separate). Be sure the stock is well fitted and does not shift. Accurate guns may be made like the No 4(T) and it's 7.62 mm successor. Good luck and have fun.
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December 28, 2014, 11:53 AM | #11 |
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http://soldiersystems.net/2013/11/11...-21st-century/
http://www.ohioordnanceworks.com/rif.../oow-line/hcar Maybe those photos in the links will help. Last edited by bfoosh006; December 28, 2014 at 12:03 PM. |
December 29, 2014, 02:54 AM | #12 |
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Just taking a quick look, Boyd's has BAR thumbhole stocks! Price doesn't seem too bad, either. If you're not happy with your acquisition and have already mentally set aside the cash to get the rifle you really want, then YES it is most definitely worthwhile! While any man can take his hard earned money and spend on accessorizing if he feels like it, it doesn't seem like it's a fatuous endeavor in your case. You only have potential to gain enhanced function and extract more value out the gun, which isn't really worth all that much in your opinion as is. Maybe you took it in the mouth a bit, but you're stuck with it so now you have a fun project. I'm always finding excuses to throw more time and money at projects even if it's unnecessary. It's how I maintain some level of sanity. Good luck on what sounds like a fun winter project!
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December 29, 2014, 05:35 AM | #13 |
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bfoosh, you had to go and post that... I bought the issue of SGN with the OOW HCR on the cover since it looked so interesting. OOW has produced a semi-auto version of the WWII-era M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle for a while, and created this version to act in a DMR role. At $4699, its out of my price range...
However, the M1918 BAR, or OOW's version, is nothing like what the OP's modern Browning BAR. They are 2 different rifles.
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December 29, 2014, 05:32 PM | #14 |
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"Shut up, crime!"
^That is the best vigilante movie ever. ShaunPain: Thanks for the tip on the boyd's stocks, I'll check them out! It's so nice that there are like-minded individuals here. I'm not looking to "buy" performance. My philosophy is that if you can buy something to make your rifle more comfortable to you, without sacrificing performance, then you should if you want to. The BAR is a nice rifle in design. The one I have is great as far as performance. I'm no Jerry Mickulek but I can get 2 MOA at 100y. I'm sure someone who is a better shot could get better. I'm honestly not interested in upgrading the action at all. The one thing it does have going for it is that the action is smooth as butter. I'm looking forward to posting pics when it's done. Keep your eyes out! It does however need to be re-crowned. Any advice? I was thinking an 11 deg. target crown but I know almost nothing about differences in crown styles other than "as long as it's as close to perfectly even at the muzzle, it'll work" Some of these recessed crowns or inverted muzzles (where they recess the rifling into the barrel about a half inch) look cool, but don't seem to be a necessity. If I could afford a $4,000 M1918 I'd snatch that up too. Semi-auto or not, that thing is a hog. >.< |
December 29, 2014, 06:03 PM | #15 |
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Back when I was a Lieutenant, I got to see a Browning BAR in 300 Win Mag that competed in the mid 80's Army sniper rifle competition that eventually resulted in the M24. I always appreciated the historical and experimental weapons displays.
I think that a BAR would be a fine designated marksman rifle. Consider topping it with a 1.5-6x42 Burris MTAC with 7.62 reticle. That would be keeping nicely with the DMR theme. Hope this helps, and good luck with your project. Jimro
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December 29, 2014, 07:45 PM | #16 |
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I think the OP is talking about the sporting semi-auto BAR, not the military light machinegun or a clone. (I really wish FN had chosen another name for that rifle, but it went along with BLR and BPR.)
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December 29, 2014, 09:29 PM | #17 | |
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I might pay to have the muzzle recrowned. After that I'd use it as is, maybe a can of krylon. A wrinkle finish in the color of your choice over the wood and a contrasting color on the metal. It is a shooter grade rifle, a refinish won't improve value or improve function. I don't think a thumbhole is an option on a 2 piece stock, but could be wrong.
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December 30, 2014, 09:29 AM | #18 |
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No offense to anyone... but I understood about the Browning BAR part. I have a BAR II in 300WM. I just wanted to share the photos more then anything, hoping that the OP could maybe get some ideas from the linked rifle.
I also would love to have a sporterized BAR II... maybe someday... LOL |
January 4, 2015, 10:03 PM | #19 |
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JMR40 - In order to use krylon or any kind of aerosol application I'd have to rough up all of the bluing first, no?
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January 7, 2015, 11:17 AM | #20 |
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Krylon is sort of a temporary solution to camouflaging firearms. It wears off so quickly that I wouldn't bother even roughing up the bluing on your Browning.
Cerakote is more permanent, also more expensive. Jimro
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January 7, 2015, 02:36 PM | #21 |
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I know about impulse buy... Good idea just to regroup and make it fun like you have planned.... Like the other poster said... It's better than complaining that you got ripped off.
I bought a FAL on impulse, it's nice, had a dangerous trigger, which I replaced.
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January 10, 2015, 12:24 PM | #22 |
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>I picked up a 1989 Grade I BAR in 30.06. Realized I may have taken a bit of a bath on it after detailed inspection.<
If it was me, before I spent money on making the gun look good, I'd take it out to the range and see what MOA it can shoot, and whether it cycles reliably. If the prior owner managed to damage the bore and cycling, too, then I wouldn't spend money on making the rifle look good. If it shoots well (as it probably will) then make it look as good as it actually works.
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