Odd flyer in each 5-shot group

[mmtecg]

I have just started reloading (about 100 assorted loads, all .223) and I have a problem that needs to be remedied before I can continue.

I am reloading for a RRA Varmint A-4 w/20" 1/8 twist barrel and I have reloaded several different bullets with the main one being the Sierra 69gr MK with Varget. I have good luck with this combo but there is one issue...

I have noticed that out of every 5 shot group that I fire, there is almost always a single round that goes about 3/4" to the left. The rest of the group is tiny (average of 0.500"" but this flyer opens the group to an average of about 1.250". It is ALWAYS to the left.

This doesn't only happen with the 69gr MK's. It also happens with the Hornady 68gr's, and Nosler Partition 60gr's.

I have gone from (using the Sierra's) 23.4 grains of Varget to 25.0 grains and the flyers have followed the whole way.

At one point, I was able to shoot a group that didn't have a flyer and it measured a measly 0.300". I know this gun is capable of doing great but the flyers are messing with my mind, please help.

Michael

[Inspector3711]

Some rifles seem to do this. Make sure you rule out any repeating defect in your reloading and then make sure you give the barrel plenty of time to cool between shots. Barrel heat can cause the same problem.

[mmtecg]

Allowing the barrel to cool is something I have not done. Usually I only fire 20 shots in a session. Is that enough to make a difference? How long do you allow the barrel to cool between shots?

I thought that because of the bull barrel profile, it was able to shoot more rounds than a normal barrel without heating excessively.

Thank you for anymore information you can provide. Michael

[Claude Clay]

4 five round strings per session and usually 1 flyer to the left.......

do you load & shoot 5 at a time or load 20 and shoot 4 groups?

is the flyer usually the 1st round of each group or random in order?

you dont mention you loading equipment but strive for consistence in your motions and pressure exerted. it may be an inconsistency at the bench......double down on your concentration with the next batch of reloads to rule that out. dont mix head stamps and try to keep production lots together. verify trim length also.

cooling the barrel---after a string, pull a bore snake through it twice with a spray of rem oil on the tail. and reload your magazine with 7 rounds. this is your cool down time. than throw away the 1st round the you manually chambered [ it need not be a target round-you are foweling the barrel], fire your 5 and the last off target, or manually eject it.

theres more.....there is always more; but i hope this helps

good luck

[rwilson452]

If your barrel is warm to the touch, it is enough. Depending on several factors you barrel could be heating up at any point but usually just in front of the chamber. Allow the barrel to cool completely between shots. Do NOT attempt to coll the barrel by wiping down with a wet rag. This will cause uneven cooling and just make a bad situation worse.

[Jim Watson]

Agree with Claude. Spot each shot individually and see if the wide shot is the same in every string. The first shot chambered by hand and the last shot with everything twanging around as the gun goes empty are the usual suspects.

My load testing rate of fire is one shot a minute for not more than two five shot strings before letting the barrel cool. It will cool faster in a vertical rack with the bolt open to generate a draft.

[Claude Clay]

another idea-- i use the same bullets & powder as you in a H-Bar 1/7.
a flyer is my error. i generally shoot 10 five round strings and than plink for a 100 or so rounds.
more strings allows my bbl to get evenly warm and stay that way.

keep track if your gun has fewer flyers after the bbl's temp becomes stable.

[mmtecg]

All good info guys. Thanks. I did just get a new powder measure (Lee perfect powder measure) that seems to drop more accurate loads than the one that came with the Lee classic turret press that I currently use.

I am ULTRA carful at the bench and I am reasonably sure that inconsistency is not the issue. (At least not inconsistency at the bench)

Most of the time, the flyer will be right in the middle of the group (2-3 shot)

I also noticed that the first five shots are always the most inaccurate of them all. No flyers, just really wide groups. I am assuming that is because of things like the barrel being clean, cool and the first round being manually loaded.

Thanks. Michael

PS: All brass is new Winchester that has been trimmed, chamfered, cleaned, flash-hole de-burred, and inspected.

[edward5759]

you may need to turn your necks on the cases.
this will reduce the run out.
take the cases of the rounds that shoot wide, and single them out.
I mark them with a black marker. do not reload them.
then back at the bench load your good brass.
I find that works most of the time.
Ed

[Nomo4me]

A buddy gave me several hundred loaded rounds of .222 when I bought his Sako Vixen in Sept. I was cleaning the heavy tarnish off them today (they were loaded in 1967) when I noticed one of the bullets had pushed down through the case neck and was sitting on the powder.
I pulled the bullet then dropped the charge of BLC-2 into a scale pan to see what load he'd used back then.

There was a black lump of something in the powder, which I assumed was clumped powder after 5 decades of storage.
I picked at the mass - it was a black fly.

I don't know what the burn rate is for mummified black fly, but I'm guessing that round might have ended up a flier

[Masteraceman123]

You shoot the round with the black fly, id like to see the velocity for that round lol

[Nomo4me]

He found a peaceful spot on the bottom of the round-file

[Unclenick]

Mmteccg,

Did you get the gun used? If so, do you know how many rounds went through it before you had it? Fliers like that are typical of shot-out barrels.

If the gun is new, then a few things to try:

Fold up or better yet, detach the bipod and set the front handguard on the bags back as close to the receiver as you can. This is to get bipod foot slip and out and minimize the leverage of the hand guard tip on the receiver. See if that shoots better?

When a gun has the potential to shoot in the 3's (three tenths group size), that's when all the benchrest case prep starts to make a visible difference. Winchester has some pretty terrible neck wall runout in some instances, so you need to at least get a runout gauge and separate the nice straight rounds from the rest for your grouping tests. I prefer to measure neck wall runout and select a set that don't exceed 0.001" total difference from one side to the other. Usually about 20% make the cut. Then I match them up in groups by weight and try to get enough groups of twenty within a grain of each other to keep as load development sets. I deburr the flash holes and uniform the primer pocket depth on these best cases. I use the primer pocket depth tool to clean them out each time I load them, and am careful to seat the primers to uniform depth below the back of the case head's rim. A couple thousandths past where the anvil touches down on the bottom of the primer pocket is what Federal recommends for small rifle primers. 0.003" for large. K&M makes a primer seating tool with an optional dial indicator for measuring this. I usually just rely on my Forster Co-ax press's seater which sets them a forced 0.004" below flush; the nominal depth. Otherwise, use the depth stem on your caliper to measure that depth below the rim and correct it as needed.

Boattail bullets are often harder to make shoot 100 yard groups accurately than flat base spire points. This is partly because their bearing surface is shorter for same-weight bullets, and is also because the long tail dwells in the muzzle long enough for muzzle blast to tip the bullet more than it will a flat base. For that reason, faster powders that develop lower muzzle pressures may be easier to make them shoot accurately with. If you have some H or IMR 4198 on hand, you might try working a load up with that?

Whether you play with the powder or not, you need to get the bullets straight into the selected test cases. That means measuring runout after loading the cartridges and straightening or culling the ones that runout much more than the neck thickness difference. The difference between seating these straight and seating them 0.004" out of round can be the difference between .25" groups an and 1.25" groups. Years ago, Creighton Audette measured and marked the orientation of runout on cartridges and fired ones with a similar degree of runout, half with the orientation mark at 9:00 and half with it at 3:00, and got two separate groups on the target.

I like the Redding Competition seater die. It knocks out runout. I've heard good things about the Forster, too, but haven't owned one myself. With a standard seating die, you'll just have to sort with the runout gauge to get a good set for grouping tests.

Load these nice straight rounds singly. I like to let the barrel cool a full two minutes before inserting the next round. Then I try to release that shot at roughly the same 30 seconds later to keep the pace of fire fairly constant.