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Old August 11, 2014, 09:57 PM   #26
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The Iron Rule for Self Defense is no matter what you get, you must practice, practice, PRACTICE ! Get completely familiar with your SD piece until you can handle it blindfolded, in the dark, without your glasses, just woke from a sound sleep, etc. Comfortable grips on a revolver are a must, all my S&Ws wear either Herrett's or Pachmayrs, neither the S&W service or target grips are comfortable for me. Know where it shoots, if a fixed sight gun, have it shooting as close to point of aim as possible, an SD crisis is not the time for Kentucky windage.
The 32 ? On June 28, 1914 Gavrilo Princip did pretty well with one.
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Old August 11, 2014, 10:08 PM   #27
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You know, I'm no fan of doing things half-assed, but the tone of this thread is that if you can't buy a $600 gun in a major caliber and dedicate yourself to enough practice to handle a lot of recoil and stiff springs, then you just shouldn't bother defending yourself.

Not everyone who wants to buy some insurance by having a gun available wants to make a lifestyle out of it. And it shouldn't be necessary.
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Old August 11, 2014, 10:48 PM   #28
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Find a lightly used Ruger SP-101 in .357 mag but load it with .38 +P. To lighten the trigger pull buy a Wolff reduce spring kit and snap caps then just keep squeezing the trigger until the action smooths out. This is referred to as a poorman's action job. IMO stay away from a semi-auto as most novices will not practice enough to know what to do if they have a jam, failure to fire, magazine not properly seated, etc... issues. With a revolver just point and pull the trigger until it goes BANG!

The Ruger SP-101 is probably one of the best values on the market. Well made, dependable, and reasonably priced. A lightly used SP-101 will generally go for between $400 to $450. The advantage of the revolver is that it shoots both a recognized powerhouse in the .357 magnum and the low recoil but adequate personal defense round, the .38 Special (in semi jacketed flat nose IMO). Loading the .38 +P provides the best of both worlds, a intermediate cartridge between the two which if either women can handle a 9mm they should be able to handle the +P.

Stick with the Hogue rubber grips as shown as they provide a longer grip thus better control. If this is going to be a conceal carry, find a set of wood or nylon grips preferably of similar design as the rubber will grab clothing making it difficult to draw.

For what it's worth, my $.02 cents...



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Old August 11, 2014, 10:52 PM   #29
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A couple of years ago I got an S&W 632 Pro .327 Magnum revolver for my wife for home defense. I travel a lot and I wanted her to have a gun she felt confident using, didn't recoil much, and would give her the best success in getting good hits on a bad guy. It's loaded with Sellier & Bellot .32 S&W Long 100gr wadcutter, which will crush a nice clean hole in flesh.

She isn't a shooter like me. She loves this set up. She also didn't have to learn to quickly clear jams like I would have insisted she do if her HD gun was an auto loader.

S&W discontinued the 632 and the Federal .327 Magnum cartridge seems to be on its way out. However there are plenty of revolvers chambered for .32 H&R Magnum that will chamber the same .32 S&W Long wadcutter.
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Old August 11, 2014, 11:10 PM   #30
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There are so many different good makes and models of 38/357's out there I fail to see a reason for going to a 32 anything. In the semi-auto platform 9mm ammo is pretty available and cheap (relative to most other calibers).

Just my 2 cents.
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Old August 11, 2014, 11:29 PM   #31
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Plan on him spending to his upper $300 limit. A decent used revolver can be had at that price.

Trigger pull is heavy on the $150 Nagant revolvers, so scratch that.

S&W Model 10s are out there, he needs to start looking.

For a semi-auto, there is the CZ82, Makarov, and Hungarian FEG, these run around $200-300.

I would stick with either the 9mm in 9x18 or 9mm Luger, or the .38 Special. The .32 ammo is a bit weak.

One important thing, is to not delay unnecessarily. Work on getting gunned up by end of August.

You will also need to make the time to run 250-500 rounds through your new piece by Christmas, to train yourselves and get some familiarity and skills.

Also, budget for a CCW permit, they are worth having. And an NRA membership.
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Old August 12, 2014, 08:25 AM   #32
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I don't recall anybody asking this question, but do your g/f and her family plan to train with the gun they purchase, or simply stick it in a drawer until they hear the door being kicked in?

I'd just guess they won't train much, won't take classes in SD ... if that's the case, recommending a revolver in any caliber, IMHO, is a recipe for trouble. Any revolver is more difficult to shoot than most 9mm semi-autos. Get a used Smith or Ruger semi, something without a safety to worry about. The lighter trigger pull will make it easier to stay on target, and a medium weight non +p JHP will do a lot of damage.

A personal example ... my wife is not a shooter, tho she does visit the range with me from time to time. She shoots my Springfield XDm-9 well, but she prefers my Smith 22a (.22LR semi) or my Ruger LCR in .22mag. She won't shoot a .38Spcl revolver because she hates the recoil. The Ruger's recoil is so light that it's easy for her to shoot tight groups at 7 yards.

Another issue with revolvers is reloading. Even with speedloaders, if you don't practice regularly, replacing a mag (again in my opinion) is a much easier skill to acquire than dumping used brass and getting a revolver back in action.

And don't underestimate the value of night sights, which are readily available, at least as replacements, for the cheap sights on most semis. If you're not planning on a laser, the comfort of those glowing dots helping you aim in the dark is amazing. Aiming in dim light with the black sights on most revolvers is an exercise in frustration.

Whatever you get, suggest they train with it as often as they can (are there even places to shoot in Chicago, or do you have to travel to a suburb -- or another state)? Shooting well is a skill that degrades without practice.

Good luck.
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Old August 12, 2014, 09:33 AM   #33
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J&G still has advertised Model 64s (stainless Model 10s) for $259.95 in "good" condition or VG cond. for $299.95
Thats similar to the ad they had when I got mine, and for the same gun. Its good to see they are coming back down, although having just gone there, the $259 specials are no longer listed.

They had some other trade in S&W's a few months back, Model 10's I think, that werent in all that great shape "looking" wise, and the price was nearly duoble what this offer is.

My 64 has been a great shooter, and when I got it, was the cleanest gun Ive ever bought, new or used. There wasnt a speck of anything, anywhere. When I patched the barrel, it actually came out as white as it when it. I dont know how they cleaned them, but it was impressive.

Shooting wise, they are soft shooting, even with hotter loads, have smooth and light DAO triggers, and are the usual, S&W accurate.

Quote:
Not everyone who wants to buy some insurance by having a gun available wants to make a lifestyle out of it. And it shouldn't be necessary.
No one is saying you need to make a lifestyle out of it, but you do have to put in the time and effort to at least be reasonably proficient with whatever it is you choose. That normally requires basic firearms training and regular practice.

If you cant do that, then a firearm is probably not the best choice for you.


Quote:
I don't recall anybody asking this question, but do your g/f and her family plan to train with the gun they purchase, or simply stick it in a drawer until they hear the door being kicked in?

I'd just guess they won't train much, won't take classes in SD ... if that's the case, recommending a revolver in any caliber, IMHO, is a recipe for trouble.
I agree, and for anything they choose.

The thought that you have a gun might be comforting, but your deluding yourself if you dont learn how to properly use it, and at least train with it regularly.

Quote:
Another issue with revolvers is reloading. Even with speedloaders, if you don't practice regularly, replacing a mag (again in my opinion) is a much easier skill to acquire than dumping used brass and getting a revolver back in action.
Speed loaders do require regular practice, and are often a challenge to those unfamiliar with them, and thats just at the range with no stress involved.

Then there is the issue of having to repeatedly do the revolver reload (assuming youre even prepared for it), and in some cases, 3-1 compared to some of the autos. This is one of those cases that emphasizes the advantages of the hicap autos.

But again, even going with one of the simpler auto's, you still have the basic training and practice issues that need to be done, if youre not familiar.
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Old August 12, 2014, 10:20 AM   #34
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You could probably find a used .9mm Ruger LC9 for around that price, which would also work well.
It's not that hard to work the slide, and has a loaded chamber flag that would let them know a round is in the chamber, and also has a thumb safety.
I think for newbe's to gun ownership that would fill their needs, and be safe.
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Old August 12, 2014, 10:45 AM   #35
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Im going to offer a suggestion based on price, and performance. Look for a used Ruger P97, or P345. I bought both of these for less than $350 each, in excellent condition. Recoil is very reasonable, and you wont find much that beats a .45
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Old August 12, 2014, 12:58 PM   #36
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Revolver or automatic? Your girlfriend's dad will need to do a little soul searching to determine how much time and effort he (and his wife and daughter) wants to invest in developing and maintaining proficiency.

A revolver is simple. Aim and press the trigger. It doesn't jam. He can spend his training time developing and maintaining his marksmanship proficiency.

An automatic requires learning how to clear jams and training frequently to clear jams quickly. He's going to have to devote training time to develop and maintain BOTH marksmanship and manipulations skills. He'll also need to purchase spare magazines because he won't want to use his training magazines (the ones he'll repeatedly drop on the ground, some empty - some loaded, during training at the shooting range) for defense.
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Old August 12, 2014, 04:11 PM   #37
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Ditto S&W M10 w/4" barrel.......next to a good flashlight and charged cellphone.
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Old August 13, 2014, 08:15 AM   #38
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Enough of the off-topic bickering. The question was about a handgun.
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Old August 13, 2014, 05:57 PM   #39
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$200-$300 range.
Tough to fine a good revolver for $300 nowdays.

Maybe a beat up S&W 10 or Ruger Security Six but that's about it.

Like some have mentioned.. used Ruger P85/89/94/95 9mm.

But if she wants to carry it, then hmm. $400 used Glock 26.

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Old August 14, 2014, 08:20 PM   #40
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For a home defense gun, it's hard to beat a .357 revolver; and for a .357 revolver, it's awfully hard to beat a good, used Ruger Security-Six or Speed-Six. Not only can they used to defend the old homestead with .38 spc +P, they are great camping, hiking and cross country guns with full power .357 mag ammo.

A few years ago I read a story about a newlywed couple who were hiking in the woods alone and unarmed. A black bear began trailing them and they separated hoping the bear would follow the guy. To make a long story short, the bear followed her and they later found her partially eaten body along the trail. A Ruger .357 would most likely have radically changed the end of that story.



The .32acp pistol would be one of the last calibers I would buy. But the tiny .22lr round, on the other hand, is a surprisingly good choice for home defense. Especially with a reliable, fast semiautomatic pistol like a Ruger. The lowly .22lr, granted, doesn't look like much; it's dwarfed by the .32, but it's a very accurate, very lethal round, and easy to put in the head, under the chin, or in the eye. It can kill when fired from a mile away, from a pistol (I know a person it almost happened to. He said it felt like a very bad wasp sting, only he passed out by the time he was down the ladder. When he woke up in the hospital, the doctor told him he had come "this close" to dying. The .22lr bullet was fired by a couple of kids test firing a pistol a good mile from this guy's house).

Of course I recommend the Ruger .22lr auto, in whatever configuration you prefer. These guns are built to last forever and are ultrareliable.






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Old August 14, 2014, 08:55 PM   #41
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A few years ago I read a story about a newlywed couple who were hiking in the woods alone and unarmed. A black bear began trailing them and they separated hoping the bear would follow the guy. To make a long story short, the bear followed her and they later found her partially eaten body along the trail. A Ruger .357 would most likely have radically changed the end of that story.
So... A bear divorce, huh?
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Old August 14, 2014, 09:01 PM   #42
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The reality is that there is no "best" home defense gun other than the one you have handy. Every situation is different; Nobody in their right mind wants to be shot, and those that are "not in their right minds" (PCP, crack, etc.) aren't going to be deterred. In extreme cases such as that, it's shot placement that counts.

Bottom line is that the "best" home defense gun is the one that you are proficient with, regardless of calibre. I feel just as comfortable using a .32 automatic as I do a 1911.

Anyone who has a gun but doesn't know how to use it is just kidding themselves.
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Old August 14, 2014, 09:22 PM   #43
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As recommended previously, a used S&W Model 10, if available and affordable, would be a very good choice. These features make it a good choice for the OP: small grip, 4" barrel, .38 Special, moderate weight, and fixed "sights".
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Old August 14, 2014, 09:38 PM   #44
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Just get one of these.

https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail....=700|1012|1026
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Old August 14, 2014, 09:45 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by AK103K
No one is saying you need to make a lifestyle out of it, but you do have to put in the time and effort to at least be reasonably proficient with whatever it is you choose. That normally requires basic firearms training and regular practice.

If you can't do that, then a firearm is probably not the best choice for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyvel
Anyone who has a gun but doesn't know how to use it is just kidding themselves.
Although I agree in spirit, there are many inexperienced people who are alive because they had a gun. And even though they can't practice enough to be proficient, they can still defend themselves. There are people who have used RG .22lrs to save their wretched lives. Some people are disabled; others have no place to shoot. Some people just waltz into a gun store, buy a revolver, a box of ammo and twelve years later they keel over and the family finds the gun, six cartridges in the gun and the rest in the box. My grandmother had an old Colt .38 she kept in a drawer, and she grew up in the country around guns. She moved to Paducah to nurse an ailing woman until she, herself, began to have health problems. Then the two lived together for the rest of their lives. When her mind began going, my dad had to take the pistol and my grandmother really got her nose out of joint. Seems even those with Alzheimer's don't want to be disarmed. Still, she had used that gun to chase off a number of tramps, bums and transiants who tried to break in and take advantage of them over the years.

Anyway, it's great to learn weapons and tactics. It's nice to have speedloaders and know how to use them. But the bottom line is that the two greatest skills necessary for self protection are pointing and shooting. You don't shoot in the dark and you don't run around looking for intruders if you think they're there. My grandmother knew all that but but the last. She'd get that gun and go looking for the trouble and she was pretty good at finding it before it found her. My dad was like that, too, so we know where he got it. Only my dad used the Marine Ka-Bar he had in the Pacific and slip downstairs in the dark!

This Smith 317 would be ideal for people who can't get out to practice.



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Old August 14, 2014, 09:46 PM   #46
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The .32acp pistol would be one of the last calibers I would buy. But the tiny .22lr round, on the other hand, is a surprisingly good choice for home defense.
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Old August 14, 2014, 10:04 PM   #47
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Still, she had used that gun to chase off a number of tramps, bums and transiants who tried to break in and take advantage of them over the years.
And I agree with you in spirit, but these weren't people "out of their right minds" on PCP, crack, meth, heroin or what have you. That is a very different scenario, and necessitates competence with the gun at hand to incapacitate such a person as opposed to scaring them off.

After living in Miami, FL for 36 years, I moved to a tiny community in northern AZ and have lived here for 25 years. It is a highly unusual area in that crime is low and people are friendly. If I want to shoot, I go out my front door and shoot. As a result, I am blessed by not having the threats of home invasions or burglaries. Of course, people "talk" in small communities, so most everybody more or less knows that I am armed, which, I suspect, may be a deterrent to those who would "do wrong." YMMV
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Old August 14, 2014, 10:19 PM   #48
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No need for confusion, really. The .22lr can be launched faster, with greater accuracy and it thus tends to create more complex and far-reaching wounds than the .32acp. An old country doctor once told my dad that without an X-Ray, he wouldn't know where to look for a .22lr bullet. In many respects, a .22lr is considerably more lethal, having more than enough energy to enter the body, but lacking the mass to exit. With a .32acp wound, you simply follow the channel. With a .22lr wound, the bullet can end up anywhere.

With virtually no recoil or flash, a .22lr is far easier to put where you want it. And you can put a lot of lead in the air, faster and more precisely.
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Old August 14, 2014, 10:40 PM   #49
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No need for confusion, really. The .22lr can be launched faster, with greater accuracy and it thus tends to create more complex and far-reaching wounds than the .32acp. An old country doctor once told my dad that without an X-Ray, he wouldn't know where to look for a .22lr bullet. In many respects, a .22lr is considerably more lethal, having more than enough energy to enter the body, but lacking the mass to exit. With a .32acp wound, you simply follow the channel. With a .22lr wound, the bullet can end up anywhere.

With virtually no recoil or flash, a .22lr is far easier to put where you want it. And you can put a lot of lead in the air, faster and more precisely.
Nevertheless, even with multiple shots, can you be sure that there will be enough nervous system shock damage or blood loss to incapacitate the assailant?

Barring a head or heart shot(s) or CNS shot(s), I don't think even multiple shots from a .22 will be that effective. Of course, if that's all you have, it's better than nothing.

As usual, it's shot placement that counts. One shot between the eyes with a .22 will do the trick better than 10 random shots at various other body points.

A .32 is also a relatively low recoil, low flash round and is probably just as easy for a shooter to place multiple shots with it as with a .22.
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Old August 14, 2014, 10:50 PM   #50
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And I agree with you in spirit, but these weren't people "out of their right minds" on PCP, crack, meth, heroin or what have you. That is a very different scenario, and necessitates competence with the gun at hand to incapacitate such a person as opposed to scaring them off.
Yes, you do have a point. My grandmother's 158-gr LRN also would have been somewhat lacking in today's world, where it often takes sophisticated .357 bullet designs and speed to get a drug user's attention. But a .38 LRN is still better than nothing. My grandfather was an alcoholic and often came home looking for my father to beat. My grandmother was all the protection he had. So when he came in one night looking to beat up on my dad, and my grandfather pushed her out of the way, to get to him, my grandmother pivoted, grabbed a nearby iron skillet and brought it down on the back of his head, laying him out. Then, being a nurse, she nursed him back to health.

She was pretty good about one-shot stops.

As an aside, when she saw some hawks flying overhead looking at her chickens, she grabbed the shotgun and headed out to give them whatfor. Unbeknownst to her, the barrels picked up snow where she had shoveled it. The last thing she remembers was aiming that shotgun at a hawk. When she came to, she was laid out in the snow and one of her barrels split up the side! She said she felt like she'd been hit by lightning. Being poor, the shotgun wasn't well made, but it couldn't have been too bad -- she loved telling the story. Today, there's probably a hawk flying around somewhere that's a direct descendant of the hawk she didn't get that day.
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