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August 5, 2014, 10:33 AM | #51 | |
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August 6, 2014, 05:01 PM | #52 |
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Model12Win,
I hate to write this, but a .357 Mag with mag rounds is not a wise idea for home defense. The muzzle blast alone in a confined space; e.g., your bedroom, will disorient you. Muzzle flash will light up a room and leave you temporarily blinded. But it might work better for you. Were it me, I'd load a .357 Mag with .38 Special 158 grain LSWCHP +P for home defense. |
August 6, 2014, 07:39 PM | #53 |
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Here is a ballistic test I done for the 9mm Luger and used a CZ 75B Omega as the test pistol.
It may help you decide on the round to use. http://rangehot.com/9mm-luger-ballistic-test/
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August 7, 2014, 03:33 PM | #54 |
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+1 for SansSouci, but why +P?
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August 8, 2014, 08:38 PM | #55 |
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try to hide? im sorry but when the pile of feces hits the atmoshperic aerator at 2 am, the last thing youll want to do is HIDE your rifle or shotgun or trusty carbine.
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August 10, 2014, 04:58 AM | #56 |
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But you might want to hide your gun until you've determined whether it is a criminal or your house guests in the kitchen at 2am.
I honestly think most of these discussion shows a marked lack of reality in people's planning. Every scenario seems closer to zombie apocalypse talk than an honest discussion of how to make day to day life compatible with firearms. Normal people don't live in isolated castles with everyone in the family going to their well armed bedrooms at 10pm sharp. They have kids and friends that come and go at odd times, spouses that work the night shift and neighbors that get locked out at 2am. If you think you can react to every funny noise in the yard by either hiding under the bed or running around with a shotgun, you'll find how limited your imagination is when you either don't have the gun or embarrass yourself with it. If you think a long arm is the best possible primary weapon for home defense, then the same principle probably applies to the street. Handguns are compromises. But really, all firearms are compromises. They don't make you invincible and all have some pretty severe limitations. You need to be honest with yourself when you pick which set of compromises you're going to live with. |
August 10, 2014, 08:17 AM | #57 | |
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Out here in the hinterlands, things are isolated, pretty much everyone is armed, and you hear shooting all the time, day and night, on "normal" days, so its by no means, an uncommon sound. Police response can be a half hour or more, unless youre lucky enough to have a Trooper in the area. If you arent prepared to take care of things by yourself, then youre not being realistic in your planning. And while I agree about the lack of planning part with some people, from what Ive seen, that tends to go down and become more of an issue, the closer you go towards civilization, where more reliance on, and the expectation of others to take care of you, seems to go up. Guns are just a part of a pretty broad plan, and generally, towards the bottom of it in the progression of order, if you arent normally wearing one all the time. Around here, if they make it past the electronics and various "alert" critters, they have to deal with the dogs, (250 or so pounds of very family protective Rottweiller), who live in the house, and go with you everywhere. You dont get close, let alone in, without them knowing (we knew you were here, long before you got close to the house), and if by some chance you did, we will know just where you are, and by the way things are going, who you are. Next to good, reliable weapons systems, and the practiced familiarity of their use, good dogs are really your best bet. They are a proactive alarm system that responds instantly, giving you time to decide and deal. |
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August 10, 2014, 01:55 PM | #58 |
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Why answer a general request for home defense information with suggestions that are directed to less than 20% of the US population?
What you describe is only normal for a tiny portion of US residents, US gun owners and forum members. Most of us live in the city or the 'burbs. And those of you living in the country have the lowest expectation of a home invasion. This is what I mean about the fantasy world that so many gun forum members seem to occupy. That's great if you have an M-60 to defend the safe room in your mansion and the 10 acre killing field that surrounds it, but the rest of us don't live anything at all like that. It would be great if realistic questions about defense revolved around realistic scenarios - neighbors, kids, sidewalks, townhomes, apartments, street parking, students doing door-to-door fundraising, no dog residences, etc. |
August 10, 2014, 03:18 PM | #59 | |||
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Ive lived in a lot of different places in my lifetime, from very rural to large inner cities, and most other places in between, and really havent changed the base security measures taken. Things are adjusted somewhat for where you are, but they still fit a basic set of parameters. And as I said earlier, weapons are simply one part of the equation. Quote:
Believe it or dont, but crime exists everywhere, and occurs all the time, even here in the country. About the only real difference here, is who is likely to have to do the responding. We are moving up to big boy pants though, as most of us got 911 service a couple of years back, and an actual street address, instead of a RR # and a fire tag. Good I suppose in one respect, bad in that you can now be located on a map at the press of a computer key, by anyone. Quote:
Again, the base parameters are the same, regardless where you are, and are simply augmented or adjusted to fill your needs, where ever you are. I had dogs and answered the door wearing a gun when I lived in the city and suburbs, just as I do here now. No one was the wiser about the gun, and only one boy needed a lesson on raising his voice to my wife, while trying to open the screen door. The dog took him into the front yard and discussed it with him until he understood. No other lesson was needed. It also had a dramatic effect on the number of people coming to the door after that. |
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August 10, 2014, 03:56 PM | #60 | |
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That's what we're arguing about, BTW. |
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August 10, 2014, 04:44 PM | #61 |
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In those cases, it was a handgun. If I had felt the situation warranted a long gun, it would likely have been an AR, AK, or MP5.
Nothing is written in stone, and every instance, is its own occasion. You have to decide based on the circumstances. In some (and probably most) instances, a handgun would be the appropriate choice, in others, a long gun. I dont see the big deal in having the option and alternate weapons available, and I do. Im not stuck in one rut. In case you missed it, pretty much all along here, Ive agreed with you on the handgun being "usually", the best overall choice, especially since it can always be on you, and you dont have to go look for or get it. |
August 10, 2014, 04:45 PM | #62 | |
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I fired a single hot .357 round indoors 3 years ago and it wreaked havoc on my ears. Extreme sensitivity to noise for a month, and intense ringing for a few months which did diminish but I still have permanent ringing in my left year. A year ago on a camping trip my idiot buddy let off a 9mm round in the backseat of the car while I was in the front with all the windows up. All it resulted in was ringing for 24hrs and left me with no ill effects like the .357 did. After the damage from the .357 round my left ear is more sensitive and susceptible to being damaged again from loud noises, yet the 9mm round in such an enclosed space didn't even touch on the amount of damage my ear endured from the .357 round. This is in no way a scientific test, but life experience has showed me that the .357 round is an extremely punishing round to the ears, much more so than say 9mm or .45. After posting my experience here with the .357 round damaging my ears I had two different members on here contact me desperately seeking help and advice on when the ringing will stop because they did the same thing. Both of those members only fired a single .357 round themselves and were left with intense ringing in their ears which never fully went away for either. |
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August 10, 2014, 04:59 PM | #63 | |
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If you agree with me (handguns for primary, long gun if you want), then why do you obscure that agreement by arguing against every response I make to someone else? |
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August 10, 2014, 05:19 PM | #64 | |
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August 10, 2014, 05:29 PM | #65 |
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One shot stop ratings were discredited 20 years ago.
The most powerful and lethal handgun is rounds are .454, .460, .50. Not .357. .50 AE too much gun? So is .357 indoors. It isn't hearing loss that's the issue - its not being able to fire effectively more than once. |
August 10, 2014, 05:50 PM | #66 | |||
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I do know that, ready or not, stress or not, a 357 indoors, will probably finish off what a lifetime of exposure to sharp, loud, and repetitive noise, has done to my hearing while unprotected. Quote:
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August 10, 2014, 06:16 PM | #67 |
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Both. Playing down the muzzle blast problems of magnums based on a half baked theory is ridiculous. Especially when the underlying reason is living up to Marshall-Sanow "statistics".
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August 10, 2014, 06:20 PM | #68 | |||
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Last edited by Dragline45; August 10, 2014 at 06:33 PM. |
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August 10, 2014, 08:04 PM | #69 | |
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August 10, 2014, 08:19 PM | #70 |
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Unless you don't want to wake up your kids, give away your position, etc, etc.
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August 11, 2014, 12:04 AM | #71 | |
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So your kids are asleep in bed and you hear a noise but you don't want to take your AR for fear that someone might see it. So you take your pistol so you can hide it in your robe so you don't offend someone in your house at midnight? At least this is what I've gotten from the summation of your posts. Not the best idea to be sweeping the house with your gun in a pocket wouldn't you say?
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August 11, 2014, 12:18 AM | #72 | |
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2. If you are still using one stop shot ratings as your end all be all, i'd recommend you do some more research.
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August 11, 2014, 12:22 AM | #73 | |
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For instance, muzzle control is easier with a handgun in confined spaces. Handguns exist despite all the things that they fail to do as well as long guns. Being able to maneuver and conceal them easily is incredibly useful - especially when you aren't in a war zone and have to appear civilized. You appear to be miffed that I can easily point out the limitations of a large gun in a house in a neighborhood. Generally, when people attach the poster, it isn't because he isn't making sense. |
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August 11, 2014, 01:03 AM | #74 | ||
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Comparing watered down weak .357 "magnum" ammo to 9mm isn't even fair. In truth the .357 magnum is capable of MUCH higher velocities and energy levels to ANY 9mm handgun when using full-power ammo in BOTH guns. |
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August 11, 2014, 01:28 AM | #75 | |
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So again what's the difference between a drunk person stumbling in your house accidentally and seeing a sub compact 9 pointed at them or a 12 gauge? And you make it sound like an AR is hard to manipulate inside a home. It really isn't. By all means if it is for you then use what your comfortable with but that doesn't make the AR platform a bad choice for HD. It's actually a great platform for cqb
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