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March 20, 2008, 11:39 PM | #1 |
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Powder for .44 mag with least flash or bloom at night...
I'm needing a "recipe" for .44 magnum, 300gr. Laser-Cast Truncated Cone bullets, that has as little flash or bloom at night, as possible... I don't need to launch a lead pellet in to orbit, just across fifty or so feet, with the ability to perform the home defense function. This is not a hunting load, but one that should be accurate, dependable, and capable of removing any potential hazard... Also, I don't want to be blinded on the first shot...
I'm thinking 900 to 1,000fps is adequate with that sized bullet, and being 70gr heavier than a 230gr .45acp, as well as at least 70fps faster, should be adequate to the task... Does anyone know of a powder that can meet this need? My .44 mag is a Ruger Super Redhawk, with a 9 1/2" barrel. Any and all help on this, is greatly appreciated... Thanks, 6.8mmSPC_Fan...
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March 21, 2008, 12:10 AM | #2 |
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Personally, for home defense, I'd load Specials.
Jeff
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March 21, 2008, 08:40 AM | #3 | |
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Universal and a 200 gr XTP @800-850, might be a good choice. BTW, I read an article in a gunzine, sometime ago, that tested muzzle flash of different powders in handguns. I think Universal was one of the low flash powders. |
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March 21, 2008, 09:09 AM | #4 |
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I have read somewhere that Ramshot powders produce less flash than most. I'd try about 8.5 or 9 grains of "Zip" or 11 grains of "Enforcer".
Why do you want to use 300 grain bullets instead of say, 240's? Do you really need to be able to shoot clean thru a grizzly bear -- lengthwise?
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March 21, 2008, 09:09 AM | #5 |
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The Accurate Arms powders have low flash.
Won't a 300 grain bullet tend to penetrate walls easily? |
March 21, 2008, 09:18 AM | #6 |
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VV 3N37 and Ramshot Silhouette are the two lowest flash powders I have any experience with. I don't see a Silhouette load for the 44 Mag, but it wouldn't surprise me it'd work fine. Might give Ramshot a call.
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March 21, 2008, 09:40 AM | #7 |
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Basically, for a given peak chamber pressure, the faster the powder you use, the earlier in the bullet's travel down the tube it will finish burning and the lower the residual muzzle pressure you will have. This approach requires going to higher peak pressures to achieve a given velocity because it will tend to reduce flash and have the lowest remaining pressure at the muzzle, and hence the least muzzle blast. Look at a .45 ACP firing the original government load of 5.0 grains of Bullseye, and there is hardly any muzzle flash, and the boom is not the dramatic ear-stuffing and ringing and damaging blast you get from a high power round. The revolver has a special problem in that the barrel cylinder gap lets gas out with a bang. That is why movies showing "silencers" on revolvers are technically non-sensical. But a fast powder making more pressure early in the bullet's travel to meet a given velocity from the chamber will make more barrel/cylinder gap noise and less muzzle blast. Where the tradeoff in sound at the shooter's position comes, you will have to try it out to see?
Check your bullet. .44 Special and .44 Mag have practically the same SAMMI maximum COL (1.615" and 1.610", respectively). The difference is in case length, which is 1/8" shorter for the Speical. If your bullet choice has a crimp groove, look to see whether it meets that COL (1.610") when the mouth of the magnum case or the mouth of the special case is crimped into it? If it was intended for the magnum and you crimp into that groove into a Special case, you will have reduced the Special's powder space by 1/8" over what it would be with a same-weight bullet with the crimp groove matched to the Special COL, and that will raise the peak pressure and muzzle velocity. Probably not enough to hurt a magnum revolver, but it might be too much for a light frame .44 Special, and you don't want somebody to accidentally chamber it in, say, a Charter Bulldog. For that reason alone, I would load it into .44 Magnum brass. Pressure changes fast with seating depth in straight wall cases. Some bullets have two crimp grooves for use in either case. Some bullets have a second crimp groove to seat out over .44 Magnum SAMMI max for revolvers like the Ruger that have a longer cylinder and will let you make that extra powder space without jamming the gun up. I don't know the bullet you are looking at, so you will have to assess this for yourself. If you use a separate. With that 300 grain bullet and very long barrel, I would go ahead and use the old 5.0 grain Bullseye charge to start. It will get you to around 850 fps like .45 ACP hardball, but with your heavier bullet you will already have more penetration just because of its greater momentum. That load will produce about 13,000 PSI in the big .44 Mag case, and a muzzle pressure of about 1,200 PSI will remain when the bullet exits. 5.0 grains of the faster Hodgdon Clays will produce the same muzzle velocity, but about twice as much chamber pressure and about 900 PSI when the bullet exits. Which will be louder in your gun depends on that barrel/cylinder gap. 5.6 grains of Unique produces almost the same behavior as the bullets, being a about 400 less PSI at the peak and about 50 more PSI at the muzzle. You won't hear a difference, but the Unique will have a dirtier burn. The Clays load will be the cleanest. I don't have enough data on Trail Boss powder to estimate its pressure accurately, but it will be same ballpark as the Unique and will be the cleanest of any powder you could use in this application and will fill the case better, decreasing the chance of a double charge getting by unnoticed. 5.0 grains is where I would start with that, too.
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March 21, 2008, 11:19 AM | #8 | |
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March 21, 2008, 12:19 PM | #9 |
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For low flash, I use Unique for standard loads and Blue Dot for magnum loads.
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March 22, 2008, 12:27 PM | #10 |
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".....in MY gun....."
I disagree with your bullet choice, as its momentum will most certainly drive it through any (numerous) walls it might encounter, regardless of launch velocity.
As for 5.0g Bullseye there are some 1911s that, upon firing, produce sparks. Some make a huge fireball. And others still seem to give little flash. (Not guessing; tested. Indoors. In the dark. Repeatedly. Numerous guns. Yep.) But we are discussing the 44 Magnum cartridge. I instead suggest the 180g XTP-HP (Hornady says it expands reliably down to a threshold of 750fps) on top of Vihtavuori Oy N350 (actual testing suggests N350 a better choice than 3N37 in the 44, but 3N37 might be 'better' in some smaller bores). Test with Federal 150 and 155 primers. Suggest 'target' velocity in the 800--1000fps range, based on controllability of chosen launch platform and demonstrated skill level. But nix that 300g LTC, because it's just way too much for HD. Of course, better than rocks, but you've got choices....
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March 23, 2008, 01:45 PM | #11 |
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Unique usually has a pretty good flash after dark. Try some IMR SR4756 to keep the orange flame down. You can reduce your loads with it somewhat and still get good shot-to-shot consistency. You may want to load a lighter bullet for HD; that 300 will penetrate most anything at around 1000 fps. Unless the prowler is a 1000 pound ursa, you may have a bad case of over penetration. Yeah, I know, us guys like penetration; YMMV. CB.
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March 23, 2008, 01:55 PM | #12 |
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My favorite .45 Colt load (in a Ruger) is 7.5 grains of Promo or Red Dot with a 230 grain truncated cone bullet. I haven't chronographed it, but QuickLoad says it's good for about 1050 to 1100 fps. The same data should be a good starting point for a "light" .44 Magnum load -- but still a lot hotter than a .44 Special. Red Dot is a very fast powder, so all the powder should be burnt before the bullet even clears the cylinder gap.
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March 23, 2008, 02:23 PM | #13 |
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Weshoot2,
I haven't seen Bullseye make a big fireball, but can imagine an ignition problem could cause it. It's characteristics make it a little funny in QuickLOAD's model, and you find it actually not finishing its supposedly quick burn as soon as you'd think it would from its position on a burning rate chart. Some experiments I did with snubbies after reading a thread on their high velocity extreme spread showed it. Sometimes a large fireball, sometimes not. I attributed that to variation in crimp and powder position on firing. Going to the really fast Vihtavuori N310 put an end to the problem. It cost about 30 fps in average velocity, but at least it was consistent, where the Bullseye and especially Unique loads had really high extreme spread in the short tube. Upwards of 25% of the average velocity. I never noticed much flash in a 1911, though most of the Bullseye I've shot in low light conditions with it has been light loads at indoor 50 ft matches, not true darkness. When I did the night firing exercises at Gunsite, it was with PB under 230 gr. RNL, which would always highlight the sight picture just a little for me.
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