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#1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,142
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Court orders guns returned to blind man
Four years ago, a blind gun owner in New Jersey managed to shoot himself (it also happens with sighted individuals). Police acted to protect him from himself by seizing six of his guns. After after a four year court battle, a court ruled he still had the 2A right to own firearms even if blind and ordered the guns returned. During the litigation, the government made some allegations of habitual drunkenness which the gun owner denied.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1077387 I'm not so sure that pre-Heller and pre-McDonald that the owner would have gotten his firearms back. The judge apparently based his decision squarely on the Second Amendment and I've never thought of New Jersey being gun friendly. It is a real shame, though, that it took four years to get them back. |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: April 20, 2012
Posts: 40
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Right vs Permission
This is another case of the state refusing to recognize the 2nd Amendment as a Fundamental Right. The Constitution does not read: "The right of sighted citizens....", nor "The right of sober citizens.....", nor "The right of the citizens approved by the government......"
It reads simply: "The right of the citizens....." It doesn't limit the right nor establish the right for any specific purpose (although the court certainly has). It specifically denies the state any authority over the right. As a result of McDonald the right is fully enforceable against the states & their subdivisions. So in this case the judge got it exactly right. The guns are not the property of the state nor does the state have any right to confiscate them. The 2nd Amendment protects the right. The bad news here is that the state will find some other nonesense to charge this guy with. Discharging a weapon within city limits, reckless endangerment, drunk & disorderly, whatever. As you are fully aware gun control isn't about guns, it's about control. Control over the state's slaves. |
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#3 | ||
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
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Quote:
Quote:
It's an interesting decision, especially in light of the fact that I know several legally-blind folks who own guns. Do you have a link to the actual decision?
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Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
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#4 |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,468
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There's blind (as, for example, Helen Keller) and then there's "legally" blind. Even if someone is 100 percent medically blind (not just legally blind), firearms have value and are personal property, and the police cannot (at least in theory) deprive people of their property without due process.
Good call by the judge. As to "legally blind," I have read articles in some of the "gun" rags about legally blind people who compete in practical shooting competitions. I've even read of people who are completely blind who shoot recreationally with the assistance of a spotter. |
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#5 | |
Member
Join Date: April 6, 2012
Posts: 97
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Quote:
My copy of the constitution from the U.S. Government Printing Office has the text of the Second Amendment as follows: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." That nit picked, the constitution does not qualify which subgroup of "the people" have the right to keep and bear arms and which group's rights may be infringed, so it seems to me that "sighted" and/or "sober" are not requirements for someone to enjoy the right to keep and bear arms. Good job by the judge who ordered the sized arms returned to the owner. |
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#6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 28, 2000
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 705
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Well. I think they sized up him and his rights … and returned seized guns to him. I think the guns stayed the same size … but the judge might have sized them up, and decided they were fitting for a blind man. Maybe they were Glocks?
![]() good call by the judge now the guy needs a lawyer, so he can go for a carry permit under the ADA ![]()
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Keep smiling ... it'll just make 'em wonder what you're up to... Last edited by animal; May 17, 2012 at 04:08 PM. |
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#7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 1, 2002
Posts: 2,832
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"...gun owner in New Jersey managed to shoot himself (it also happens with sighted individuals"
It even happened when some cops were showing school kids in Fla. all about "safe" gun handling. I'm not so sure that pre-Heller and pre-McDonald that the owner would have gotten his firearms back. True, but we really don't know IF he has them back, nor do we know how beat-up and rusty they got while in law's tender hands. |
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#8 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
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Quote:
What those handicaps might be, and who makes the determination, are really suspect. A guy I know is legally blind. The guy has to sit with his face practically touching a television to see what's on the screen. Yet, the guy can shoot fairly well, so who am I to judge?
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Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
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#9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,142
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Quote:
The ADA angle would be an interesting one to see played out. |
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#10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 28, 2000
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 705
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While I have several problems with ADA … It would be sweet ! …. I’d be willing to contribute to a fund right now to pay his permit fees, or pay towards a mounting a legal offensive for the guy.
I’d almost be willing to bet … they’d just issue the permit…You know that if he walked in to apply fresh off of a victory, they’d be a little "gunshy" of the guy. Better than nothing, though. At least he’d be getting to rub their noses in it ![]()
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Keep smiling ... it'll just make 'em wonder what you're up to... |
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