What Dies for my .223?

LloydXmas250 · November 17, 2010, 12:26 PM

I'm going to start reloading .223 pretty soon. I am wondering what dies I should be getting. I am specifically reloading once fired brass for my AR. Studying threads it seems that most suggest I use a full-length sizer to de-prime and resize. However using a collet neck die it will allow the brass to live longer. Can I get both and then use the collet die after it's fired from my AR? Some people seem to suggest that collet will only work for bolt guns.

Also, should I get the factory crimper? Many suggest in an AR it should get crimped. But I've also read a review on the Lee does that said the bullet seater die also crimps so it's pointless to have a crimper. I will for sure be sticking wiu Lee dies. Can anyone clarify on this stuff. So far I'm leaning towards the pacesetter die set which includes: full length sizer, bullet seater, and a factory crimp die. Would that make it good to go? Thanks.

PAdutchman · November 17, 2010, 01:13 PM

I won't tell you what to do, but I would never neck size only for any semi automatic rifle. You are just asking for chambering problems. I only full length size for semi auto. I do neck size only for many different calibers I have in bolt action rifles though. I collect and shoot military surplus firearms. As for dies, I have Lee, RCBS, Lyman, and Hornady. All work just fine for me. Yes I would advise you to also consider a factory crimp die for your .223. It took care of some chambering problems I use to have before getting one.

LloydXmas250 · November 17, 2010, 01:35 PM

Thanks for the advice. One more quick question. In my 9mm die set there is an expander/powder-thru die that will allow me to seat the bullet more easily. However I don't see one in the .223 Lee dies. How then do you seat the bullets without one or is that not really an issue?

PAdutchman · November 17, 2010, 03:50 PM

All straight wall pistol cartridges, as well as some straight wall rifle cartridges like my 38-55 Winchester, generally require the use of an expander die to slightly bell out the case so you don't collapse it when seating a bullet. I'm not aware of any bottle neck case, such as like your 223 round, that require the use of an expander die. Simply lube the case, run it into the re-sizer die, wipe off the excess lube, prime it, charge it, seat the bullet, and run it through your crimp die. Then off to the range!

jepp2 · November 17, 2010, 08:07 PM

Most of the dies I purchased in the past were either Lyman or RCBS (about equally split). I had good results with them, but for setting up to load for my AR's, I got this Redding die set:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=592925

I needed to replace a Lyman die that wouldn't adequately set the shoulder back. I was really impressed with the quality of the Redding die set. They should do a great job for you. I also full length size for semi autos, but do neck size for bolt actions. The seating die will crimp when you adjust it properly. And in my experience I crimp loads for the AR 15's due to the violent chambering action.

grumpa72 · November 17, 2010, 08:20 PM

A few months ago I started loading for the .223 in my AR and I use the Lee die set. I set my crimp to "kiss" the brass only. If I did any less crimp it wouldn't be there. Fwiw, I also use the lee dies for my pistol rounds. I like them a lot.

LloydXmas250 · November 18, 2010, 12:06 AM

Well I picked up the Lee Pacesetter die set. It included a full-length sizer, a bullet seater and a factory crimp. I don't have my case trimmer yet, that'll be here next week, so I only sized and deprimed about a hundred cases. To be honest I never really saw any difference in size or shape after the sizer. With calipers it seemed like the inside of the neck went from .223 to about .217. Is this thing working correctly? I also got my first stuck case which was a bear to remove but I got it out.

I've also noticed that the brass was anywhere from 1.768 to 1.700. Obviously I can trim long brass to 1.760 but the short stuff, is it now trash or what?

Tim R · November 18, 2010, 08:59 PM

I load for a match tuned AR. The dies I am using for sizing is the Hornaday match bushing die. This die allows my to adjust neck tension for the bullet. I have never crimped a match bullet and have never had any problems with bullet seat back.

Where there will be problems is when you don't set your size die up correctly. I raise the ram of the press all the way up so the shell holder touches the bass of the die. After lowering the ram, I give the die another approximate 1/4turn and lock the lock ring. Failure to do this could result in the finished round not wanting to chamber properly. If a round doesn't chamber properly, it will also be a pita to eject. For the AR you HAVE to full lenght size or it isn't going to have good results.

For seating I use a Forseter Ultra match seating die. The Redding match seating die is simular but not built as well as the Forster.

Edward Horton · November 18, 2010, 10:44 PM

A little reloading equipment suggestions to make your "AR" life easer and your brass last longer.

Jim243 · November 18, 2010, 10:56 PM

Tim

Quote:

I have never crimped a match bullet

Quote:

I give the die another approximate 1/4turn and lock the lock ring

That's called a roll crimp. So you are crimping your 223s. Less damage to the case mouth if you use the Factory Crimp Die and give a light crimp with it also more comtrollable.

I was thinking of getting one of the Forseter Ultra match seating dies. But using the Lee Seating die I have with my pacemaker set, I never have a problem setting the bullet exactly where I want to OAL and using a national match AR I shoot .15 MOA groups at 100 yards. Not sure why I should spend the extra $75 (with shipping) for another die?

Jim

Jim243 · November 18, 2010, 11:20 PM

Lloyd

Case trim length is 1.750 technicly the 1.70 is too short to properly seat the bullet, but if it works (?) it's your call.

Jim

November 17, 2010, 12:26 PM	#1
LloydXmas250 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 334	What Dies for my .223? I'm going to start reloading .223 pretty soon. I am wondering what dies I should be getting. I am specifically reloading once fired brass for my AR. Studying threads it seems that most suggest I use a full-length sizer to de-prime and resize. However using a collet neck die it will allow the brass to live longer. Can I get both and then use the collet die after it's fired from my AR? Some people seem to suggest that collet will only work for bolt guns. Also, should I get the factory crimper? Many suggest in an AR it should get crimped. But I've also read a review on the Lee does that said the bullet seater die also crimps so it's pointless to have a crimper. I will for sure be sticking wiu Lee dies. Can anyone clarify on this stuff. So far I'm leaning towards the pacesetter die set which includes: full length sizer, bullet seater, and a factory crimp die. Would that make it good to go? Thanks.

November 18, 2010, 08:59 PM	#8
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	I load for a match tuned AR. The dies I am using for sizing is the Hornaday match bushing die. This die allows my to adjust neck tension for the bullet. I have never crimped a match bullet and have never had any problems with bullet seat back. Where there will be problems is when you don't set your size die up correctly. I raise the ram of the press all the way up so the shell holder touches the bass of the die. After lowering the ram, I give the die another approximate 1/4turn and lock the lock ring. Failure to do this could result in the finished round not wanting to chamber properly. If a round doesn't chamber properly, it will also be a pita to eject. For the AR you HAVE to full lenght size or it isn't going to have good results. For seating I use a Forseter Ultra match seating die. The Redding match seating die is simular but not built as well as the Forster. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

November 18, 2010, 11:20 PM	#11
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Lloyd Case trim length is 1.750 technicly the 1.70 is too short to properly seat the bullet, but if it works (?) it's your call. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

November 17, 2010, 01:13 PM	#2
PAdutchman Member Join Date: July 26, 2008 Posts: 44	I won't tell you what to do, but I would never neck size only for any semi automatic rifle. You are just asking for chambering problems. I only full length size for semi auto. I do neck size only for many different calibers I have in bolt action rifles though. I collect and shoot military surplus firearms. As for dies, I have Lee, RCBS, Lyman, and Hornady. All work just fine for me. Yes I would advise you to also consider a factory crimp die for your .223. It took care of some chambering problems I use to have before getting one.

November 17, 2010, 01:35 PM	#3
LloydXmas250 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 334	Thanks for the advice. One more quick question. In my 9mm die set there is an expander/powder-thru die that will allow me to seat the bullet more easily. However I don't see one in the .223 Lee dies. How then do you seat the bullets without one or is that not really an issue?

November 17, 2010, 03:50 PM	#4
PAdutchman Member Join Date: July 26, 2008 Posts: 44	All straight wall pistol cartridges, as well as some straight wall rifle cartridges like my 38-55 Winchester, generally require the use of an expander die to slightly bell out the case so you don't collapse it when seating a bullet. I'm not aware of any bottle neck case, such as like your 223 round, that require the use of an expander die. Simply lube the case, run it into the re-sizer die, wipe off the excess lube, prime it, charge it, seat the bullet, and run it through your crimp die. Then off to the range!

November 17, 2010, 08:07 PM	#5
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	Most of the dies I purchased in the past were either Lyman or RCBS (about equally split). I had good results with them, but for setting up to load for my AR's, I got this Redding die set: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=592925 I needed to replace a Lyman die that wouldn't adequately set the shoulder back. I was really impressed with the quality of the Redding die set. They should do a great job for you. I also full length size for semi autos, but do neck size for bolt actions. The seating die will crimp when you adjust it properly. And in my experience I crimp loads for the AR 15's due to the violent chambering action.

November 17, 2010, 08:20 PM	#6
grumpa72 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 487	A few months ago I started loading for the .223 in my AR and I use the Lee die set. I set my crimp to "kiss" the brass only. If I did any less crimp it wouldn't be there. Fwiw, I also use the lee dies for my pistol rounds. I like them a lot.

November 18, 2010, 12:06 AM	#7
LloydXmas250 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 334	Well I picked up the Lee Pacesetter die set. It included a full-length sizer, a bullet seater and a factory crimp. I don't have my case trimmer yet, that'll be here next week, so I only sized and deprimed about a hundred cases. To be honest I never really saw any difference in size or shape after the sizer. With calipers it seemed like the inside of the neck went from .223 to about .217. Is this thing working correctly? I also got my first stuck case which was a bear to remove but I got it out. I've also noticed that the brass was anywhere from 1.768 to 1.700. Obviously I can trim long brass to 1.760 but the short stuff, is it now trash or what?

November 18, 2010, 10:44 PM	#9
Edward Horton Junior member Join Date: October 12, 2009 Posts: 70	A little reloading equipment suggestions to make your "AR" life easer and your brass last longer.