.223 Blue Dot reloading - my 1st shots report

vlasfarg · March 17, 2013, 06:12 PM

Hi there,

I finally shot my 1st .223 reloads with Win.SRP and Blue Dot (because that is the only "slow" powder I managed to get).

Disclosure: all that follows is for information only. If you decide to do the same, you do it at your own risk - no exception.

Rifle: Savage Trophy 11 22" barrel in .223 with BDC Nikon 3x9-40
Bullet: Hornady 50gr SP
Mornach 55gr SP brass fired once (through the same rifle)

I forgot the tripod, so I could not setup my Chrony.

5 shots for each Blue Dot charge at 100 yards - 75*F, not much wind. Then 5 shots with 52gr Match HP steel case factory ammo to compare.

1st batch of 5: 10gr
- Drop compared to factory ammo: 4.5" (too slow - weak recoil - not close to get a squib, but this charge feels too light)
- Group: 1.2" (not great)
- No obvious Tumbling signs
- No over pressure signs

2nd batch of 5: 11gr
- Drop compared to factory ammo: 4" (too slow - a little bit more recoil. No squib risk)
- Group: 1" (As good as the Factory ammo)
- No obvious Tumbling signs - neat puncture on the paper
- No over pressure signs

3rd batch of 5: 12gr
- Drop compared to factory ammo: 3" (slow)
- Group: .5" (great - I never shot that well at 100yards - all the shots covered by a quarter)
- No Tumbling signs at all
- No over pressure signs

4th batch of 5: 13gr
- Drop compared to factory ammo: 2" (getting there!)
- Group: less than 1" (great, but not as good as the 12gr charges)
- No Tumbling signs
- No over pressure signs

So next time I will charge 11.5 gr, 12gr and 12.5 gr to see if it gets even better, but it looks like I have found a great recipe with blue dot for MY rifle.
There is a risk of double charge with such powder, so extreme caution and attention is required. I load each case and check the charge, then immediately after I get the charge I want with a variance under 0.1 gr, I set the bullet.

Do you think I should try 14gr? I am tempted but the accuracy sweet point seems to be between 11 gr and 13 gr.

I hope you have found this interesting. I am interested to read tour comment if you have experimented something similar (or not, but then please disclose) :-)

Cheers,
Vincent

beex215 · March 17, 2013, 06:26 PM

when i tried bluedot. 16 grains or so was the max i would use. the primers started to turn flat and was time to back off. if i remember correctly, 13 grains was the ideal spot for me. this was used in an ar15, which does not cycle the bolt. recoil and sound was nothing like factory 223 rounds.

i want to add that my bullets were 55 grainers.

vlasfarg · March 17, 2013, 06:40 PM

Good to know - I will not get close to 16 gr. Thanks for sharing!

Recycle: I use a bolt action rifle. I can see why slower powder is needed for semi-autos.

The 13gr load starts to do a nice bang and some recoil, but a little bit quieter than the factory ammo I used to compare.

huntinaz · March 17, 2013, 06:54 PM

What kind of velocity do you expect, out of curiosity?

vlasfarg · March 17, 2013, 07:15 PM

I could calculate what each of my batches were flying at, but I am looking for accuracy only with the components I managed to find.
That is the constraint of the special times we live in now, isn't?

That said, I would not be surprise to safely get around 2,700 ft/s with this powder and 50gr bullets. BTW, 50gr is the heaviest bullet I will try with this powder.
But, as I target shoot only, the velocity does not matter as much as the grouping to me (if I am completely wrong here, please let me know).
The max. distance I can shoot at at the range I like to go to is 300yards. My favorite distance at this moment is 200 yards. It tested at 100yards to be sure I would be well on the paper, and I was :-)

huntinaz · March 17, 2013, 07:26 PM

Cool. Yeah I had not heard of reduced loads with blue dot but just did a Google search and am interested in the results. I have a 22 Hornet that I rarely shoot and has not been overly accurate though I have not properly worked up a handload yet. However, the few test loads I tried, I was unimpressed with the ultra thin, tapered case of the Hornet and it seemed like a pain in the butt compared to 223. I crushed my first 3 cases or so, and one or two after that if I recall correctly. If I can load down to 22 Hornet in my new 223 bolt gun, and most people are reported very accurate loads... do I really need a 22 Hornet that shoot 2 MOA consistently*? I will think on this matter

*the 2 MOA at 100 yards has been with 3 different brands of factory ammunition. I can probably reduce this with handloads... but how much?

joneb · March 18, 2013, 11:01 PM

I use Blue Dot in my bolt action 308 Win.
16gr with a Nosler 125 BT F-210 and a COL of 2.7" yields sub moa @ 100 yds.
The load density is about 47% so a double charge is possible. I inspect every charged case prior to seating, and then I check again.

Colorado Redneck · March 18, 2013, 11:56 PM

http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/Blue%20Dot.htm

Slamfire · March 19, 2013, 03:55 PM

I called Alliant and asked them about the use of Blue Dot and rifle cartridges , such as the .223.

They don’t recommend Blue Dot. The reason was small changes in components create big changes in pressure with Blue Dot. The stuff is too pressure sensitive, regardless of what “internet experts” recommend. These guys only have chronographs and they don’t see pressure fluctuations . Search and you will find people who have reported blown rifles with Blue Dot. One account, the guy though it must have been a double charge, because he could not think of another reason, but, given a peaky powder, it could have been the powder.

Colorado Redneck · March 19, 2013, 09:05 PM

Back 10 years ago when I started reloading, Blue Dot seemed like a reasonably good 357 powder. So there are a couple of pounds on the shelf. However, Blue Dot has been renedered as less than appropriate for 357 loads. So there it sits. Fooling with it in cartridges not reccomened by Alliant is likely not a good thing. Your comments are much appreciated.

Trail Boss is an excellet reduced load propellant. It can be used for any caliber. Meters really consistently.

March 17, 2013, 06:12 PM	#1
vlasfarg Junior Member Join Date: August 31, 2012 Posts: 10	.223 Blue Dot reloading - my 1st shots report Hi there, I finally shot my 1st .223 reloads with Win.SRP and Blue Dot (because that is the only "slow" powder I managed to get). Disclosure: all that follows is for information only. If you decide to do the same, you do it at your own risk - no exception. Rifle: Savage Trophy 11 22" barrel in .223 with BDC Nikon 3x9-40 Bullet: Hornady 50gr SP Mornach 55gr SP brass fired once (through the same rifle) I forgot the tripod, so I could not setup my Chrony. 5 shots for each Blue Dot charge at 100 yards - 75*F, not much wind. Then 5 shots with 52gr Match HP steel case factory ammo to compare. 1st batch of 5: 10gr - Drop compared to factory ammo: 4.5" (too slow - weak recoil - not close to get a squib, but this charge feels too light) - Group: 1.2" (not great) - No obvious Tumbling signs - No over pressure signs 2nd batch of 5: 11gr - Drop compared to factory ammo: 4" (too slow - a little bit more recoil. No squib risk) - Group: 1" (As good as the Factory ammo) - No obvious Tumbling signs - neat puncture on the paper - No over pressure signs 3rd batch of 5: 12gr - Drop compared to factory ammo: 3" (slow) - Group: .5" (great - I never shot that well at 100yards - all the shots covered by a quarter) - No Tumbling signs at all - No over pressure signs 4th batch of 5: 13gr - Drop compared to factory ammo: 2" (getting there!) - Group: less than 1" (great, but not as good as the 12gr charges) - No Tumbling signs - No over pressure signs So next time I will charge 11.5 gr, 12gr and 12.5 gr to see if it gets even better, but it looks like I have found a great recipe with blue dot for MY rifle. There is a risk of double charge with such powder, so extreme caution and attention is required. I load each case and check the charge, then immediately after I get the charge I want with a variance under 0.1 gr, I set the bullet. Do you think I should try 14gr? I am tempted but the accuracy sweet point seems to be between 11 gr and 13 gr. I hope you have found this interesting. I am interested to read tour comment if you have experimented something similar (or not, but then please disclose) :-) Cheers, Vincent

March 17, 2013, 06:26 PM	#2
beex215 Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2010 Posts: 317	when i tried bluedot. 16 grains or so was the max i would use. the primers started to turn flat and was time to back off. if i remember correctly, 13 grains was the ideal spot for me. this was used in an ar15, which does not cycle the bolt. recoil and sound was nothing like factory 223 rounds. i want to add that my bullets were 55 grainers. __________________ my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/beehasagun1?feature=mhee Last edited by beex215; March 17, 2013 at 07:24 PM.

March 17, 2013, 06:54 PM	#4
huntinaz Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2010 Location: az Posts: 1,332	What kind of velocity do you expect, out of curiosity? __________________ "When there’s lead in the air, there’s hope in the heart”- Hunter’s Proverb "Feed me, or feed me to something. I just want to be part of the food chain." -Al Bundy

March 17, 2013, 07:26 PM	#6
huntinaz Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2010 Location: az Posts: 1,332	Cool. Yeah I had not heard of reduced loads with blue dot but just did a Google search and am interested in the results. I have a 22 Hornet that I rarely shoot and has not been overly accurate though I have not properly worked up a handload yet. However, the few test loads I tried, I was unimpressed with the ultra thin, tapered case of the Hornet and it seemed like a pain in the butt compared to 223. I crushed my first 3 cases or so, and one or two after that if I recall correctly. If I can load down to 22 Hornet in my new 223 bolt gun, and most people are reported very accurate loads... do I really need a 22 Hornet that shoot 2 MOA consistently? I will think on this matter the 2 MOA at 100 yards has been with 3 different brands of factory ammunition. I can probably reduce this with handloads... but how much? __________________ "When there’s lead in the air, there’s hope in the heart”- Hunter’s Proverb "Feed me, or feed me to something. I just want to be part of the food chain." -Al Bundy

March 18, 2013, 11:56 PM	#8
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	Blue Dot Loads http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/Blue%20Dot.htm

March 17, 2013, 06:40 PM	#3
vlasfarg Junior Member Join Date: August 31, 2012 Posts: 10	Good to know - I will not get close to 16 gr. Thanks for sharing! Recycle: I use a bolt action rifle. I can see why slower powder is needed for semi-autos. The 13gr load starts to do a nice bang and some recoil, but a little bit quieter than the factory ammo I used to compare.

March 17, 2013, 07:15 PM	#5
vlasfarg Junior Member Join Date: August 31, 2012 Posts: 10	I could calculate what each of my batches were flying at, but I am looking for accuracy only with the components I managed to find. That is the constraint of the special times we live in now, isn't? That said, I would not be surprise to safely get around 2,700 ft/s with this powder and 50gr bullets. BTW, 50gr is the heaviest bullet I will try with this powder. But, as I target shoot only, the velocity does not matter as much as the grouping to me (if I am completely wrong here, please let me know). The max. distance I can shoot at at the range I like to go to is 300yards. My favorite distance at this moment is 200 yards. It tested at 100yards to be sure I would be well on the paper, and I was :-)

March 18, 2013, 11:01 PM	#7
joneb Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2005 Location: Central , OR Posts: 1,888	I use Blue Dot in my bolt action 308 Win. 16gr with a Nosler 125 BT F-210 and a COL of 2.7" yields sub moa @ 100 yds. The load density is about 47% so a double charge is possible. I inspect every charged case prior to seating, and then I check again.

March 19, 2013, 03:55 PM	#9
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I called Alliant and asked them about the use of Blue Dot and rifle cartridges , such as the .223. They don’t recommend Blue Dot. The reason was small changes in components create big changes in pressure with Blue Dot. The stuff is too pressure sensitive, regardless of what “internet experts” recommend. These guys only have chronographs and they don’t see pressure fluctuations . Search and you will find people who have reported blown rifles with Blue Dot. One account, the guy though it must have been a double charge, because he could not think of another reason, but, given a peaky powder, it could have been the powder. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

March 19, 2013, 09:05 PM	#10
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	Thanks, Slamfire Back 10 years ago when I started reloading, Blue Dot seemed like a reasonably good 357 powder. So there are a couple of pounds on the shelf. However, Blue Dot has been renedered as less than appropriate for 357 loads. So there it sits. Fooling with it in cartridges not reccomened by Alliant is likely not a good thing. Your comments are much appreciated. Trail Boss is an excellet reduced load propellant. It can be used for any caliber. Meters really consistently.