Brass shotgun shell size for 2 3/4 chamber gun?

[DG45]

I have an old single barrel 12 gauge shotgun, with a 2 3/4 in chamber. It's been checked out and found to be ok for black powder shooting. Gunsmith suggested maximum powder charge of one oz.

Am looking online at brass shotshells to fire uncrimped. (2 1/2 inch Magtechs from Cabellas; 2 5/8 inch from Rocky Mountain Cartridge Co.) Can't find new 2 3/4 inch brass shells anywhere. I believe both Magtech and RMC require large pistol primers.

Magtechs appear to be of good quality, and are less expensive than RMC, but I've been told that RMC is of highest quality and will probably last me for a lifetime.

Magtechs case walls are reported to be thinner and apparently require some 11 gauge components (maybe cards, wads) for best results. RMCs thicker-walled brass cases can use all 12 guage components.

I'm mostly concerned about the short length of both of these brass shells. Would either/both be safe for use in my 2 3/4 in chamber? If either of these short length shells can be safely used in my gun, which would be the better length to use considering my maximum 1 oz black powder limit? Does it even matter? (You can assume I'll be using FFg) Any suggestions/assistance/information/thoughts you can provide will be appreciated.

[DG45]

OOPS! Just reread my notes. The gunsmith suggested maximum one oz load. I realize now he meant max shot weight, not powder weight. That's measured in drams isn't it?

I've never loaded black powder in anything before - actually I've never loaded or reloaded anything in any kind of powder - I've just bought em off the shelf and paid very little attention to anything except shot size and shell length. So before I kill myself doing this wrong, somebody please tell me what kind of black powder charge I should use if i use a maximum one oz. of shot in these brass shotshells. Sorry for the error. Thanks for all help.

[zippy13]

Yep, an ounce of black powder would make your loads quite exciting (if you could get that much in the case). As long as the cases don't exceed the maximum for your chamber, you're okay. The simplest load is one that duplicates the shot's volume with powder. With black powder loads, you'll get exceptional service life from any of the all brass shells. As with loading rifle and pistol black powder cartridges, special caution must be exercised when charging black powder shot-shells -- see a black powder reloading manual.

As far as the length of the shells is concerned, I'd go with the one that gives you the simplest wad column. Unless you don't care how deeply recessed your overshot wad appears. You don't want to be using unnecessary filler wads or having to hand split them because you selected the wrong shell length.

Last, I'll ask what what I should have started with... Why brass shells? You can load black powder in modern hulls with a lot less cost and bother.

[B.L.E.]

Get yourself a Lee adjustable shot dipper and use it to measure both the shot and black powder. A good starting point and general rule of thumb for muzzleloading shotguns is to use the same volume of powder as shot, so if you have the shot dipper adjusted to throw one ounce of shot, use that same dipper to measure an appropiate powder charge. You can go up and down with the powder charge to see what patterns best.

A lot of seasoned muzzleloading shotgunners refer to their powder charges in "ounces" meaning the amount of powder that a shot dipper measures when set to that amount of ounces. Many of them couldn't tell you their powder charge in grains, they just don't measure their powder that way. I think a one ounce shot dipper measures about 65 grains of FFg.

[darkgael]

I own a couple of boxes of both the old BELL and the newer CBC/Magtech hulls as well as some zinc Alcan hulls. They work nicely. You do have to Gauge Up when loading them - 11ga wads for 12ga hulls. Use a 10 ga. OS card and Duco cement to seal. Either length will work just fine in your old gun like they work in an old Ithaca Flues.
I treated myself to 10 of the RMC lathe turned hulls. They are a cut above the others. They use 12 gauge components, and standard 209 shotshell primers. They can be used with either BP or smokeless loads (I use them in an old Parker and load low pressure loads that use IMR 7625 as a propellant with one ounce of shot. Pressures are under 7000 psi).
The RMC hulls are very well made. You were right about them lasting a lifetime. That's why I ordered only ten - more shots than I have ever had in a day of upland hunting and they are not going to wear out. Seal the same way, an OS card and Duco cement.

You can load black powder in modern hulls with a lot less cost and bother.

True. You get only one reload per hull. BP and modern plastic shothells do not do well together; the hulls melt. If you have a lot of empty hulls, then I suppose it'd make sense.

Pete

[DG45]

I appreciate everyones input. To answer a previous posters question, I'm going to use brass shells because I think they look cool; and to parrot Ricky Nelson, "you can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Since my kids are grown, and my mortgage has been paid off, these days I can afford to waste an occasional $50; not that I consider brass shotshells a waste. (I may be able to barter them for food if the economy goes much further south.)

Also, I intend to use brass shells because someone mentioned on one of these forums that I read some time ago that good brass shotshells (and I plan to buy the best) give a shotgun shooter a small but real extra measure of protection against a burst breech when shooting a very old gun (like mine is). I don't know if thats true or not, but I'm uneasy enough about rolling my own that I'm willing to grasp at such straws.

[zippy13]

Originally Posted by DG45

I'm going to use brass shells because I think they look cool…

That they do, very cool… I'm jealous.

Originally Posted by darkgael

I own a couple of boxes of both the old BELL and the newer CBC/Magtech hulls as well as some zinc Alcan hulls. They work nicely. You do have to Gauge Up when loading them - 11ga wads for 12ga hulls. Use a 10 ga. OS card and Duco cement to seal.

Pete, do you cut your own wads… do you recommend it to DG45?

[olddrum1]

Graf and Sons can be found on the web. They carry brass hulls I believe.

[B.L.E.]

Circle Fly makes old timey paper, fiber, and felt wads in nearly every gauge imaginable including rifle calibers. I get mine from Track of the Wolf.

[darkgael]

Do I cut my own wads?
Not as a matter of course. Circle Fly and Ballistic Products both make fine wads that are inexpensive enough that making them (for me) is more trouble than it's worth.
I have made them, just to know that I could but I'd have to be in a real pinch to do it regularly.
Now that I've written that......I do make my own wads for brass .410 hulls. That is because no one makes the necessary oversized wads for that little hull. Circle Fly has one that is slightly oversized but it is still too loose a fit. I use a .45 cardboard card as an OP and then two 1/4" thick cork wads cut with a 1/2" punch. I use a normal .410 plastic wad on top of that to carry the shot. Seal with another .45 card and Duco.
Pete

[DG45]

darkgael, this is a question for you.

zippy 13 mentioned above -and I'm trying to paraphrase what he said - that I should use shell length (2 1/2 inch or 2 5/8 inch) that the wad column would work best with. I don't actually have enough experience to know which of those two lengths that would be though. But darkgael, you actually have 10 of those RMC brass shells like I intend to buy, that they sell in either 2 1/2 or 2 5/8 inch lengths. I've read a lot of stuff that that you've written, and its apparent that you've been there, done that, and got the tee shirt. So what length RMC brass shells did you buy? If you're satisfied with the length of yours, I'm sure I would be satisfied with that length too.

By the way, I really appreciate all you guys sharing your knowledge with me. Such a great forum.

[darkgael]

DG:

that they sell in either 2 1/2 or 2 5/8 inch

If you are thinking about 12 ga., the RMC sizes are 2 5/8ths and 2 7/8ths. They do not list a two and a half inch 12 ga. hull. Also the prices on the website are not correct last time I called them. More $ now, IIRC.
For your gun, use the 2 5/8ths inch hull.
The little reload kit is useful but not necessary.
Also, you cannot resize these hulls, nor will you need to.

[DG45]

Thanks for the correction and the answer.