too much powder in .45 ACP?

Yellerhammer · April 15, 2006, 09:48 PM

I'm fairly new to reloading and I have a question about using Bullseye powder in .45 ACP's. According to Speer's reloading manual (13th), use 5.2-5.7 grs for a 230 gr. TMJ bullet.

I used a hornady 230 gr. FMJ, and loaded several of my cases with 5.3 grs, several with 5.4 grs, and the rest with 5.5 grs. Today, I looked in the Lee's reloading manual and the only info it gives is 5 grs of bullseye as the max load. I haven't fired any of these rounds, are they safe or should I pull the bullets?

Which reloading manual should I trust, or should I purchase another one?

Buckythebrewer · April 15, 2006, 10:16 PM

My lyman book says 3.8 start & 5.3 max... I would not fire them in your gun until your sure the tolerances in your gun will allow those powder charges without being to much pressure.maybe work up some charges from starting loads and watch for signs of over pressure as you increase.maybe you won't have to take them apart.I don't know just be on the safe side thats all I can recommend.

Buckythebrewer · April 15, 2006, 10:16 PM

My lyman book says 3.8 start & 5.3 max... I would not fire them in your gun until your sure the tolerances in your gun will allow those powder charges without being to much pressure.maybe work up some charges from starting loads and watch for signs of over pressure as you increase.maybe you won't have to take them apart.I don't know just be on the safe side thats all I can recommend.

918v · April 15, 2006, 10:41 PM

Different bullets loaded to different OAL's cause different pressures. If you load the Speer TMJ to the OAL they list, then you will not have any issues. If you substitute a different bullet, then you should use that bullet's load data.

**Unclenick** · April 15, 2006, 10:47 PM

5.0 grains of Bullseye comes quite close to the government's hardball load, and is a pretty standard formula for hardball. I would not see a lot of reason to exceed it unless the shape of your bullet has it seating out further and leaving more powder space than 230 grain ball does. For higher velocities you do better to use HS6 or some other slower pistol powder. In some guns you will be able to increase the bullseye just fine. A gun with an integral ramp barrel should have no problem with 5.5 grains. Some guns with standard barrels will see some case bulging, but I would not expect to see an actual case failure from that load. It will, however, batter a semi-auto unnecessarily unless you put in stiffer springs, which is why I don't see a general reason to exceed it.

For the future, you will want to get an inertial puller or else invest in the Lee hand tool, which is easily carried to the range. You can then pre-charge a series of cases. label them with a sharpies and put corks in them. Use your seating die in the hand tool and seat and fire bullets one at a time, starting with the lowest charged case and working up. When the pressure looks high enough, stop. Uncork and return the powder from the rest to your measure at home and recharge them all with the last safe load.

Nick

Yellerhammer · April 15, 2006, 10:50 PM

Okay, thanks for the advice. I'll purchase a Hornady reloading manual and see what they have listed.

joneb · April 16, 2006, 03:39 AM

I find Speer's data to be consistanly on the hot side , when loading to they're data I find myself loading down for a more accurate load.

Monkey · April 16, 2006, 08:29 AM

The Hornady data that's published in the Loadbooks USA compilation book doesn't list Bullseye for their 230 gr FMJ. If that's the combo you are going to use, find a copy of the Hornady manual and thumb through it before you buy. Make sure whatever book you buy has the kind of recipes you are looking for.

Rivers · April 16, 2006, 09:59 AM

Unless you're talking about a Jennings, then your loads will be safe (maybe a little "snappy") in whatever you're shooting them through. Any respectible manufacturer pressure tests their barrels for a lot hotter loads than your talking about. Almost any modern .45 will handle +p, and most will handle .45 Super loads.

I sure wouldn't go to the trouble of pulling the bullets.

WESHOOT2 · April 16, 2006, 10:00 AM

Regardless of OAL, when firing any load listed anywhere as above MAXIMUM, do yourself a favor and don't.

Work UP to it, maintaining safety.

".....in MY gun....." is exactly what I'm talking about.

(see, if XYZ company says "this load produced 39K PSI", does that mean it will produce 39K PSI in MY gun?)
Maybe, but NOT necessarily

Rivers · April 16, 2006, 10:47 AM

WeShoot is EXACTLY correct in his miniaturized footnote. (redundancy for effect.

)

918v · April 16, 2006, 11:14 AM

Why don't you get data for the particular bullet you plan on using? Why buy a Hornady reloading manual if you're gonna use a Winchester bullet? Every manufacturer uses a different alloy jacket, different hardness core, and a unique profile. They all cause different pressures.

Yellerhammer · April 16, 2006, 12:24 PM

The only store in town that carries reloading components only carries hornady bullets and Alliant powders. Unless I order online, my options are limited. I plan on purchasing a Hornady reloading manual, but every store is closed on Easter sunday. I'll have to wait until tomorrow. Thanks everyone for the advice.

bjmanersr · April 16, 2006, 01:20 PM

with a 230 you will be ok.Ive shot this load in my colt and my glock without any pressure signs.But make 5.5 your limit.

Buckythebrewer · April 16, 2006, 05:52 PM

Safety,safety,,safety

anybody who would start at MAX is someone who is gambling with there lives.every guns chambers, barrel twists,barrel length,demensions are going to be different.causing variables between different loads.and it can and does spell disaster sometimes.

Yellerhammer · April 16, 2006, 06:11 PM

I've decided to pull the bullets and start over with this batch. I'll start at what the Hornady reloading manual (once I get it) recommends. Thanks everyone for the suggestions, I'm sure I'll be back some other time with more questions.

Tim R · April 16, 2006, 07:45 PM

Hammer, don't get too worked up over this. You are trying to do the right thing and my hat is off to you as you were working up published information. Your Hornaday manual is going to tell you 5.5 grs of B/E under a 230 gr. Bullet is their max load as well.

I used 5 different reloading mauals data (no free ones either) and made my own book. I used a 3 ring binder and keep data/reloading notes there. I have found I always come back to the Speer data as it seems pretty close most of the time. (some exceptions, don't trust Bluedot 357 data in the Speer 11) The main problem with doing this is updating as cartridges/new powder are added which I end up loading. Granted, I used only the data for which cartridges powder I thought I would be using. .40 S&W and Power Pistol had not been invented yet either, which I happen to shoot and use. 38 Super is my next project.

Yeah, some of the books give you which powder was this or that, but I have to tell you the Speer out of the whole crowd is the only one using a real gun in their test, every one else is using a universal receiver. Sometimes Speer data is not at the tops of the chart with some other data taking that prize.

Bottom line is I would shoot your loaded rounds, and keep notes. You never know, you might like them.

Buckythebrewer · April 16, 2006, 11:02 PM

Im sure this will start an argument but oh well.it would be fine if you used those loads if every gun had the exact same tolerances but they don't and for that matter shooting conditions are different as well(temp,etc).I think you are wise not to use them until you have worked up to the powder charges and bullet seating depth that they are. GOOD FOR YOU. don't take any chances.I would have put them on the side in cASE they would work o.k. but making sure you don't fire them until you know is just plain SMART.

April 15, 2006, 09:48 PM	#1
Yellerhammer Junior Member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Posts: 5	too much powder in .45 ACP? I'm fairly new to reloading and I have a question about using Bullseye powder in .45 ACP's. According to Speer's reloading manual (13th), use 5.2-5.7 grs for a 230 gr. TMJ bullet. I used a hornady 230 gr. FMJ, and loaded several of my cases with 5.3 grs, several with 5.4 grs, and the rest with 5.5 grs. Today, I looked in the Lee's reloading manual and the only info it gives is 5 grs of bullseye as the max load. I haven't fired any of these rounds, are they safe or should I pull the bullets? Which reloading manual should I trust, or should I purchase another one?

April 15, 2006, 10:47 PM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,083	5.0 grains of Bullseye comes quite close to the government's hardball load, and is a pretty standard formula for hardball. I would not see a lot of reason to exceed it unless the shape of your bullet has it seating out further and leaving more powder space than 230 grain ball does. For higher velocities you do better to use HS6 or some other slower pistol powder. In some guns you will be able to increase the bullseye just fine. A gun with an integral ramp barrel should have no problem with 5.5 grains. Some guns with standard barrels will see some case bulging, but I would not expect to see an actual case failure from that load. It will, however, batter a semi-auto unnecessarily unless you put in stiffer springs, which is why I don't see a general reason to exceed it. For the future, you will want to get an inertial puller or else invest in the Lee hand tool, which is easily carried to the range. You can then pre-charge a series of cases. label them with a sharpies and put corks in them. Use your seating die in the hand tool and seat and fire bullets one at a time, starting with the lowest charged case and working up. When the pressure looks high enough, stop. Uncork and return the powder from the rest to your measure at home and recharge them all with the last safe load. Nick __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 15, 2006, 10:50 PM	#6
Yellerhammer Junior Member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Posts: 5	Okay, thanks for the advice. I'll purchase a Hornady reloading manual and see what they have listed. __________________ .25ACP "Baby" Browning .45ACP Kimber Custom II .270win Browning LH Medallion .30/30win Marlin 336W

April 16, 2006, 08:29 AM	#8
Monkey Member Join Date: January 12, 2000 Location: Waterford, Michigan Posts: 58	The Hornady data that's published in the Loadbooks USA compilation book doesn't list Bullseye for their 230 gr FMJ. If that's the combo you are going to use, find a copy of the Hornady manual and thumb through it before you buy. Make sure whatever book you buy has the kind of recipes you are looking for. __________________ Monkey

April 16, 2006, 10:00 AM	#10
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	"start low work up slow" Regardless of OAL, when firing any load listed anywhere as above MAXIMUM, do yourself a favor and don't. Work UP to it, maintaining safety. ".....in MY gun....." is exactly what I'm talking about. (see, if XYZ company says "this load produced 39K PSI", does that mean it will produce 39K PSI in MY gun?) Maybe, but NOT necessarily __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

April 15, 2006, 10:16 PM	#2
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	My lyman book says 3.8 start & 5.3 max... I would not fire them in your gun until your sure the tolerances in your gun will allow those powder charges without being to much pressure.maybe work up some charges from starting loads and watch for signs of over pressure as you increase.maybe you won't have to take them apart.I don't know just be on the safe side thats all I can recommend.

April 15, 2006, 10:41 PM	#4
918v Junior member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 1,372	Different bullets loaded to different OAL's cause different pressures. If you load the Speer TMJ to the OAL they list, then you will not have any issues. If you substitute a different bullet, then you should use that bullet's load data.

April 16, 2006, 03:39 AM	#7
joneb Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2005 Location: Central , OR Posts: 1,888	I find Speer's data to be consistanly on the hot side , when loading to they're data I find myself loading down for a more accurate load.

April 16, 2006, 09:59 AM	#9
Rivers Junior member Join Date: November 5, 2005 Posts: 670	Unless you're talking about a Jennings, then your loads will be safe (maybe a little "snappy") in whatever you're shooting them through. Any respectible manufacturer pressure tests their barrels for a lot hotter loads than your talking about. Almost any modern .45 will handle +p, and most will handle .45 Super loads. I sure wouldn't go to the trouble of pulling the bullets.

April 16, 2006, 10:47 AM	#11
Rivers Junior member Join Date: November 5, 2005 Posts: 670	WeShoot is EXACTLY correct in his miniaturized footnote. (redundancy for effect.) Last edited by Rivers; April 16, 2006 at 04:03 PM.

April 16, 2006, 11:14 AM	#12
918v Junior member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 1,372	Why don't you get data for the particular bullet you plan on using? Why buy a Hornady reloading manual if you're gonna use a Winchester bullet? Every manufacturer uses a different alloy jacket, different hardness core, and a unique profile. They all cause different pressures.

April 16, 2006, 12:24 PM	#13
Yellerhammer Junior Member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Posts: 5	The only store in town that carries reloading components only carries hornady bullets and Alliant powders. Unless I order online, my options are limited. I plan on purchasing a Hornady reloading manual, but every store is closed on Easter sunday. I'll have to wait until tomorrow. Thanks everyone for the advice. __________________ .25ACP "Baby" Browning .45ACP Kimber Custom II .270win Browning LH Medallion .30/30win Marlin 336W

April 16, 2006, 01:20 PM	#14
bjmanersr Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2005 Location: Tennessee by way of AL. Posts: 161	If your shooting a good modern colt,glock,ect with a 230 you will be ok.Ive shot this load in my colt and my glock without any pressure signs.But make 5.5 your limit. __________________ B J Maner sr

April 16, 2006, 05:52 PM	#15
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	Safety,safety,,safetyanybody who would start at MAX is someone who is gambling with there lives.every guns chambers, barrel twists,barrel length,demensions are going to be different.causing variables between different loads.and it can and does spell disaster sometimes.

April 16, 2006, 06:11 PM	#16
Yellerhammer Junior Member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Posts: 5	I've decided to pull the bullets and start over with this batch. I'll start at what the Hornady reloading manual (once I get it) recommends. Thanks everyone for the suggestions, I'm sure I'll be back some other time with more questions. __________________ .25ACP "Baby" Browning .45ACP Kimber Custom II .270win Browning LH Medallion .30/30win Marlin 336W

April 16, 2006, 07:45 PM	#17
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	Hammer, don't get too worked up over this. You are trying to do the right thing and my hat is off to you as you were working up published information. Your Hornaday manual is going to tell you 5.5 grs of B/E under a 230 gr. Bullet is their max load as well. I used 5 different reloading mauals data (no free ones either) and made my own book. I used a 3 ring binder and keep data/reloading notes there. I have found I always come back to the Speer data as it seems pretty close most of the time. (some exceptions, don't trust Bluedot 357 data in the Speer 11) The main problem with doing this is updating as cartridges/new powder are added which I end up loading. Granted, I used only the data for which cartridges powder I thought I would be using. .40 S&W and Power Pistol had not been invented yet either, which I happen to shoot and use. 38 Super is my next project. Yeah, some of the books give you which powder was this or that, but I have to tell you the Speer out of the whole crowd is the only one using a real gun in their test, every one else is using a universal receiver. Sometimes Speer data is not at the tops of the chart with some other data taking that prize. Bottom line is I would shoot your loaded rounds, and keep notes. You never know, you might like them. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

April 16, 2006, 11:02 PM	#18
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	Im sure this will start an argument but oh well.it would be fine if you used those loads if every gun had the exact same tolerances but they don't and for that matter shooting conditions are different as well(temp,etc).I think you are wise not to use them until you have worked up to the powder charges and bullet seating depth that they are. GOOD FOR YOU. don't take any chances.I would have put them on the side in cASE they would work o.k. but making sure you don't fire them until you know is just plain SMART.