Starr replica

fal308 · April 2, 1999, 10:56 AM

Just received my latest Sportsman's Guide catalog. They now sell a Starr replica in .44. You can also see it on-line at Sportsman's Guide site. www.sportsmansguide

Bill Mitchell · April 2, 1999, 11:11 AM

Yup,I saw the Starr also. Having a replica of
an early double action is long overdue,considering the number of C&B replicas out there. I'll want to see one before buying,but it's definitely on the
"want" list. Too bad that I can't use it in a SASS match,though.

Bellicose Bill

James K · April 2, 1999, 01:11 PM

I don't know all the SASS rules; could you lock out the Starr DA and use it as SA only?

fal308 · April 3, 1999, 01:06 PM

Not familiar with SASS rules either. But would be fun to shoot and to have something different. Now if there was only a conversion!!

Bill Mitchell · April 3, 1999, 07:24 PM

SASS allows single action pistols only,thus the name

Double actions are only allowed in the pocket pistol side matches,and they have to be small frame revolvers,such as S&W Lemon Squeezers. So,double actions,even when shot in single action mode,are a no-no. Although,I doubt that a double action could be shot as fast or accurately as a single action shot with a two hand hold.

Bellicose Bill

El Chimango Pete · April 3, 1999, 09:17 PM

Guns and Ammo for March has a piece on "Civil War" (they call it that) "Revolver Rarities": a sidebar on the Starr - produced in single action as well as double. .36 and .44 six inch barrel DA's were available at the outbreak of the war (produced from 1858), the SA .44 with an 8" barrel was the one actually purchased by the U.S.Ornance War Department - a total of 41102 pistols contracted and delivered. Starr apperently produced 58000 tortal, of which 47454 to the Union military.
After Colt and Remington, it was the third largest producer.

James K · April 3, 1999, 09:34 PM

Dont be Bellicose, Bill.

Any DA? I can't speak for the old DAs, though some were pretty good for speed, but I can empty an S&W Model 19 into less than 2" at 7 yards in under 2 seconds, shooting DA. I can't do that with a SA, even slip hammering two handed, but maybe not enough practice.

Bill Mitchell · April 4, 1999, 04:38 PM

Jim,

The fastest guy in my club can shoot five shots,starting with the gun at a 45 degree
angle pointed at the ground,into one target
in 1.4 seconds with a Ruger Vaquero. He's fast-one of the fastest in the Southeast,but I'll bet their are others faster than him in the world of CAS. He's slip-hammering,no doubt. Admittedly,the only double action I have is a turn of the century S&W lemon squeezer. Guys like Joe Bowman and Bill Oglesby can empty a single action incredibly fast by just running the five fingers of their off-hand across the hammer. They can also make two shots sound just like one. Their guns are pretty tricked out,but doing that with even a tricked out DA would be impossible in DA mode,IMHO.

Bellicose Bill

James K · April 7, 1999, 11:10 AM

Bill,
Good show! I like the business with the five fingers; I wonder if anyone used that in the Old West. Maybe this summer I'll try to get my DA speed back up.

Gunslinger · April 12, 1999, 02:29 PM

I searched the Sportmans Guide site (Thanks for the e-mail fal) and couldn't find the Starr. I would like to get an up close and in person, so to speak, look at one to see how difficult it would be to do a cartridge conversion on one. Even though
SASS doesn't allow them NCOWS and, I believe, WASA do. I realize that SASS does stand for the SINGLE ACTION Shooting Society but what could be more authentic then the Starr?
At least SASS is flexible regarding clothing. I, like, Belicose Bill, enjoy dressing the part but agree with Jim about spending large sums of money for costuming. I think that the costume should be secondary to the guns used. We'd all look pretty comical sporting expensive duds and being forced to go BANG! BANG! at the targets because we couldn't afford the guns. Although we are fortunate to have clubs like the NSSA for that group as well. We should be thankful that there are shooting clubs/groups and origanizations to fit almost all of our taste.
Hell, I thinking of forming a group that is required to shoot nothing but 10 gauge Gatling guns at steel targets in the shape of politicians. At all shoots clothing of course would be optional. We could call ourselves the CRA, Citizens for Reasonable Anarchy. Anyone wanting a low CRA number should sign up immediately as I anticipate a very large membership.
Gunslinger

El Chimango Pete · April 12, 1999, 03:45 PM

Greetings! Great idea Gunslinger - sign me up with CRA. Can offer "non-discretionary reciprocity" to members, even suggest a merger, with PISA (Politically Incorrest Shooters Association - formerly ...Shooters Society, but acronym was determined to be in itself, politically incorrect). We are thinking of a "mean-end-view" i.e. front, of the 10 ga. Gatling for a logo.

WASA have had a recent discussion on allowing top break vintage Webleys - yes, I believe.
Though the Starr was produced apparently more as a SA than DA, it would give "unfair advantage" and definitely against the "spirit of the game" shooting in the same class.
Them speeds with SA - well: wow!

Re costume: I think any outfit that passes reasonably as 19th century should be admitted as "Cowboy Correct" - else I'll turn up at a match in my faded red long johns. With the lid up and buttoned of course.

BTW and changing the subject - MAD DOG started a thread in the "Art of the Rifle" about 454 Casull carbines - could be interesting...

James K · April 12, 1999, 05:42 PM

My question on the Starr concerned only the fact that the Starr has a selector which allows DA firing. With that down, it will fire only SA. I guess rules in these events are made for a reason, and if a DA were allowed someone might being a Cooper or somesuch.

fal308 · April 13, 1999, 10:03 AM

Gunslinger
Just checked Sportsman's Guide site. They sold out of the Starr already.
Don't forget to sign me up as a charter member of CRA. Thanks anyway but I'll still wear my clothes. I would prefer it if you guys would wear clothes also. I'm not into looking at a bunch of naked men

Gunslinger · April 13, 1999, 01:14 PM

Actually I was planning to offer a free membership package to the first 20,000 applicants of the fairer sex. That should......well, raise membership.

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April 2, 1999, 10:56 AM	#1
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	Just received my latest Sportsman's Guide catalog. They now sell a Starr replica in .44. You can also see it on-line at Sportsman's Guide site. www.sportsmansguide

April 2, 1999, 11:11 AM	#2
Bill Mitchell Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Roswell,GA Posts: 433	Yup,I saw the Starr also. Having a replica of an early double action is long overdue,considering the number of C&B replicas out there. I'll want to see one before buying,but it's definitely on the "want" list. Too bad that I can't use it in a SASS match,though. Bellicose Bill

April 2, 1999, 01:11 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I don't know all the SASS rules; could you lock out the Starr DA and use it as SA only?

April 3, 1999, 01:06 PM	#4
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	Not familiar with SASS rules either. But would be fun to shoot and to have something different. Now if there was only a conversion!!

April 3, 1999, 07:24 PM	#5
Bill Mitchell Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Roswell,GA Posts: 433	SASS allows single action pistols only,thus the name Double actions are only allowed in the pocket pistol side matches,and they have to be small frame revolvers,such as S&W Lemon Squeezers. So,double actions,even when shot in single action mode,are a no-no. Although,I doubt that a double action could be shot as fast or accurately as a single action shot with a two hand hold. Bellicose Bill

April 3, 1999, 09:17 PM	#6
El Chimango Pete Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 1999 Location: Sierras de Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 352	Guns and Ammo for March has a piece on "Civil War" (they call it that) "Revolver Rarities": a sidebar on the Starr - produced in single action as well as double. .36 and .44 six inch barrel DA's were available at the outbreak of the war (produced from 1858), the SA .44 with an 8" barrel was the one actually purchased by the U.S.Ornance War Department - a total of 41102 pistols contracted and delivered. Starr apperently produced 58000 tortal, of which 47454 to the Union military. After Colt and Remington, it was the third largest producer.

April 3, 1999, 09:34 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Dont be Bellicose, Bill. Any DA? I can't speak for the old DAs, though some were pretty good for speed, but I can empty an S&W Model 19 into less than 2" at 7 yards in under 2 seconds, shooting DA. I can't do that with a SA, even slip hammering two handed, but maybe not enough practice.

April 4, 1999, 04:38 PM	#8
Bill Mitchell Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Roswell,GA Posts: 433	Jim, The fastest guy in my club can shoot five shots,starting with the gun at a 45 degree angle pointed at the ground,into one target in 1.4 seconds with a Ruger Vaquero. He's fast-one of the fastest in the Southeast,but I'll bet their are others faster than him in the world of CAS. He's slip-hammering,no doubt. Admittedly,the only double action I have is a turn of the century S&W lemon squeezer. Guys like Joe Bowman and Bill Oglesby can empty a single action incredibly fast by just running the five fingers of their off-hand across the hammer. They can also make two shots sound just like one. Their guns are pretty tricked out,but doing that with even a tricked out DA would be impossible in DA mode,IMHO. Bellicose Bill

April 7, 1999, 11:10 AM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Bill, Good show! I like the business with the five fingers; I wonder if anyone used that in the Old West. Maybe this summer I'll try to get my DA speed back up.

April 12, 1999, 02:29 PM	#10
Gunslinger Junior member Join Date: January 5, 1999 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 2,105	I searched the Sportmans Guide site (Thanks for the e-mail fal) and couldn't find the Starr. I would like to get an up close and in person, so to speak, look at one to see how difficult it would be to do a cartridge conversion on one. Even though SASS doesn't allow them NCOWS and, I believe, WASA do. I realize that SASS does stand for the SINGLE ACTION Shooting Society but what could be more authentic then the Starr? At least SASS is flexible regarding clothing. I, like, Belicose Bill, enjoy dressing the part but agree with Jim about spending large sums of money for costuming. I think that the costume should be secondary to the guns used. We'd all look pretty comical sporting expensive duds and being forced to go BANG! BANG! at the targets because we couldn't afford the guns. Although we are fortunate to have clubs like the NSSA for that group as well. We should be thankful that there are shooting clubs/groups and origanizations to fit almost all of our taste. Hell, I thinking of forming a group that is required to shoot nothing but 10 gauge Gatling guns at steel targets in the shape of politicians. At all shoots clothing of course would be optional. We could call ourselves the CRA, Citizens for Reasonable Anarchy. Anyone wanting a low CRA number should sign up immediately as I anticipate a very large membership. Gunslinger

April 12, 1999, 03:45 PM	#11
El Chimango Pete Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 1999 Location: Sierras de Cordoba - Argentina Posts: 352	Greetings! Great idea Gunslinger - sign me up with CRA. Can offer "non-discretionary reciprocity" to members, even suggest a merger, with PISA (Politically Incorrest Shooters Association - formerly ...Shooters Society, but acronym was determined to be in itself, politically incorrect). We are thinking of a "mean-end-view" i.e. front, of the 10 ga. Gatling for a logo. WASA have had a recent discussion on allowing top break vintage Webleys - yes, I believe. Though the Starr was produced apparently more as a SA than DA, it would give "unfair advantage" and definitely against the "spirit of the game" shooting in the same class. Them speeds with SA - well: wow! Re costume: I think any outfit that passes reasonably as 19th century should be admitted as "Cowboy Correct" - else I'll turn up at a match in my faded red long johns. With the lid up and buttoned of course. BTW and changing the subject - MAD DOG started a thread in the "Art of the Rifle" about 454 Casull carbines - could be interesting...

April 12, 1999, 05:42 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	My question on the Starr concerned only the fact that the Starr has a selector which allows DA firing. With that down, it will fire only SA. I guess rules in these events are made for a reason, and if a DA were allowed someone might being a Cooper or somesuch.

April 13, 1999, 10:03 AM	#13
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	Gunslinger Just checked Sportsman's Guide site. They sold out of the Starr already. Don't forget to sign me up as a charter member of CRA. Thanks anyway but I'll still wear my clothes. I would prefer it if you guys would wear clothes also. I'm not into looking at a bunch of naked men

April 13, 1999, 01:14 PM	#14
Gunslinger Junior member Join Date: January 5, 1999 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 2,105	Actually I was planning to offer a free membership package to the first 20,000 applicants of the fairer sex. That should......well, raise membership.