Brand Pricing and Marketing

TX_QtPi · September 22, 2012, 11:31 PM

I just got an e-mail offering me "special Savings" On the EMP from Springfield Armory. Now, don't get me wrong, I like Springfield. I've handled the XD in a .45 but ended up getting My Beretta PX4 Storm instead. It just felt better to me.

So anyway, I click the link to get the scoop on the offer for the EMp and Holy Wow... $1107 for a 9mm. Like Seriously? It's not a "real" full size 1911 and it's a Poly-gun.

The later I can give some wiggle room as many guns are polymer handles but I'm a little shocked. I fully understand development and research but it pretty much seems they used a "shrink ray" on the 1911 and came up with what they are calling the "short action 1911."

I'm not trying to knock their product but it seems they are getting to be a bit greedy. JMO... don't get all hurt about it. I can easily see springfield becoming the new glock craze...

I'm I alone here in thinking a "short action" 9mm 1911 polymer pistol falls a little short from a real deal 1911? Just curious for opinions since this was their promotional e-mail "special offer" pricing.

I know they've been out a short while but anyone get one yet? Any Range Time?

mrt949 · September 23, 2012, 12:18 PM

EMP is aluminum frame in 9MM ,40 SW is stainless .

Creeper · September 23, 2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

I'm not trying to knock their product but it seems they are getting to be a bit greedy. I can easily see springfield becoming the new glock craze...

Above #1. If the price exceeds your budget or sensibilities... don't buy one.
Above #2. Ah... huh?

Quote:

I know they've been out a short while but anyone get one yet? Any Range Time?

They actually have been out for awhile... well over a year actually. I have extensive range time with a 9mm aluminum framed EMP. Well made, smooth action, reliable within the 300 assorted rds I fired through it and pleasingly accurate for it's size. If I needed a near pocket sized 1911 pattern 9mm, it would be on my short list.

Cheers,
C

tosnyder · September 23, 2012, 02:36 PM

It is a pricey little pistol but it is also a very well put together little pistol. Fit an finish on the one I had was excellent and it was fun to shoot. The sales price you listed seems a bit high, I've seen them locally for 1050. I picked mine up used for 850 and sold it a few months ago for 900. Go figure.

Everything about it is a 1911 all parts have been scaled down to make it smaller which is probably why it hasn't caught on more. Parts pretty much have to come from SA and there aren't a whole lot of customizing people can do to it.

Also I believe the EMP 9 was introduced in 2007 and the EMP 40 in 2008?

TX_QtPi · September 23, 2012, 03:54 PM

by no means out of My budget, I just don't see the value resting at the "special" price sent to me in the e-mail.

I'm asking for opinions based on handling experience what I buy is my business.

All I'm pointing out is that the special sales price that is offered seems a bit high for the pistol itself, like I said I could get a full size 1911 for that.

Tosnyder, how was your shooting experience with it? Best grouping? Most importantly what made you sell it? If it was a personal reason just say personal reason if it was performance or gun related please elaborate.
Thanks!

MLeake · September 23, 2012, 04:03 PM

OP, the flaw in your premise is that the price of the pistol is not based on the amount of matter in its composition (IE bigger does not necessarily equal more expensive).

In the case of 1911s, the opposite is often true. It is hard to reduce the size of the basic design without negative impact on reliability. This is why you see many noted instructors say "Go no smaller than a 4.25" Commander length." A lot of 3" and 3.5" 1911s have earned reputations for being hard to run.

So, if a manufacturer can build a small 1911 that gets a good reputation for reliability, that manufacturer can charge a premium.

I have no experience with the EMP, so I have no opinion on what it is worth. All I am saying is that a $1107 price tag does not sound unreasonable IF the small 1911 is reliable.

Edit: another small 1911 for comparison would be the STI Shadow, which I think is in the same price ballbark; I believe the small Dan Wesson 9mm 1911 costs more.

TX_QtPi · September 23, 2012, 04:49 PM

okay, yes, Thank you MLeake. That is what I was asking. Perhaps just not as well put.

I have heard of the difficulties with some of the smaller framed 1911s. So a micro sized 1911 doesn't sound as appealing to me but if it is in fact reliable I may be swayed otherwise.

so re-wording my question a bit is the EMP worth the price tag put on it?
I like SA. But I also see the emerging trend, so I am wondering if it is indeed quality or branding?

Is the EMP in fact "a small 1911 that gets a good reputation for reliability" worth the pricing or is it market hype?

tosnyder · September 23, 2012, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Tosnyder, how was your shooting experience with it? Best grouping? Most importantly what made you sell it? If it was a personal reason just say personal reason if it was performance or gun related please elaborate.

It was fine to shoot, recoil wasn't bad at all, a little snappy but I guess thats to be expected in a small light pistol. It was accurate, I'm sure it was capable of better accuracy than I am. I could keep 2"-2.5" groups with it at 7-10 yds as long as I did my part. Never really did rapid fire, the ranges around here all enforce the 1 shot per second max rate. And I never tried to hit anything past 10 yds with it either.

I never really had any issues with it. Fed fine, ejected fine, shot fine.

I will admit that the EMP was one of those pistols that when I saw it I was just like "oooohhh shiney, me want"! So when I found a good deal on a used one I snatched it. Unfortunately I just didn't love it as much as I thought I would. I sold it because of that, and because the gentleman that bought it was willing to give me slighty more than what I paid for it. Actually sold off all my 1911's (EMP, SA loaded, Sig 1911) becasue I just didnt shoot them, and I wanted a new AR. Somehow ended up with a new AR and a CZ SP-01. Hope this helps you.

seeker_two · September 25, 2012, 05:20 AM

Just wait a little while.....I'm pretty sure that the SIG 938, at its price point, will start to pressure other 9mm micro-1911 makers to bring their prices down.....

KyJim · September 25, 2012, 08:55 PM

As others have mentioned, the EMP is not polymer. It has an anodized aluminum frame and steel slide and barrel. That costs some money. Springfield had to re-engineer the 1911 and the EMP uses something like 15 non-standard parts. This was done both to decrease size and increase reliability. As MLeake mentioned, the smaller guns are often more difficult to make reliable. The STI Shadow, Dan Wesson ECO, and most other small 1911s are actually bigger than the EMP. The STI LS is also very small and uses 1911 controls but is not a true 1911 since it uses a linkless barrel.

All in all, $1,100 for an EMP is not out of line. Obviously, however, you can buy small 9mms for much less. I have the Kahr CM9 at less than half the price of the EMP. Still, I sometimes think of getting one.

mrt949 · September 26, 2012, 06:20 AM

tx qtpi= go shoot one you might like it.

west5757 · September 26, 2012, 10:08 AM

That price does seem high. I got one used for $900. I really enjoy shooting it. We shoot a lot with a dueling tree and that is what I use. Probably at 10 yards or so. It is quite accurate and has a great feel to me but of course that is a matter of opinion. It is also a great shooter for my wife. She recently took her concealed carry class with it and grouped 18 of 20 shots in a 3.5" group.

MLeake · September 26, 2012, 10:24 AM

A used price of $900 would be about 80% of a new price of $1107. That seems right about in line.

September 23, 2012, 03:54 PM	#5
TX_QtPi Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2011 Location: TX Posts: 101	by no means out of My budget, I just don't see the value resting at the "special" price sent to me in the e-mail. I'm asking for opinions based on handling experience what I buy is my business. All I'm pointing out is that the special sales price that is offered seems a bit high for the pistol itself, like I said I could get a full size 1911 for that. Tosnyder, how was your shooting experience with it? Best grouping? Most importantly what made you sell it? If it was a personal reason just say personal reason if it was performance or gun related please elaborate. Thanks! __________________ "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."

September 23, 2012, 04:49 PM	#7
TX_QtPi Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2011 Location: TX Posts: 101	okay, yes, Thank you MLeake. That is what I was asking. Perhaps just not as well put. I have heard of the difficulties with some of the smaller framed 1911s. So a micro sized 1911 doesn't sound as appealing to me but if it is in fact reliable I may be swayed otherwise. so re-wording my question a bit is the EMP worth the price tag put on it? I like SA. But I also see the emerging trend, so I am wondering if it is indeed quality or branding? Is the EMP in fact "a small 1911 that gets a good reputation for reliability" worth the pricing or is it market hype? __________________ "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."

September 25, 2012, 05:20 AM	#9
seeker_two Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2002 Location: Deep in the Heart of the Lone Star State (TX) Posts: 2,169	Just wait a little while.....I'm pretty sure that the SIG 938, at its price point, will start to pressure other 9mm micro-1911 makers to bring their prices down..... __________________ Proud member of Gun Culture 2.0......

September 26, 2012, 06:20 AM	#11
mrt949 Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2008 Posts: 1,692	tx qtpi= go shoot one you might like it. __________________ No Gun Big Or Small Does It All

September 22, 2012, 11:31 PM	#1
TX_QtPi Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2011 Location: TX Posts: 101	Brand Pricing and Marketing I just got an e-mail offering me "special Savings" On the EMP from Springfield Armory. Now, don't get me wrong, I like Springfield. I've handled the XD in a .45 but ended up getting My Beretta PX4 Storm instead. It just felt better to me. So anyway, I click the link to get the scoop on the offer for the EMp and Holy Wow... $1107 for a 9mm. Like Seriously? It's not a "real" full size 1911 and it's a Poly-gun. The later I can give some wiggle room as many guns are polymer handles but I'm a little shocked. I fully understand development and research but it pretty much seems they used a "shrink ray" on the 1911 and came up with what they are calling the "short action 1911." I'm not trying to knock their product but it seems they are getting to be a bit greedy. JMO... don't get all hurt about it. I can easily see springfield becoming the new glock craze... I'm I alone here in thinking a "short action" 9mm 1911 polymer pistol falls a little short from a real deal 1911? Just curious for opinions since this was their promotional e-mail "special offer" pricing. I know they've been out a short while but anyone get one yet? Any Range Time? __________________ "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."

September 23, 2012, 12:18 PM	#2
mrt949 Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2008 Posts: 1,692	EMP is aluminum frame in 9MM ,40 SW is stainless . __________________ No Gun Big Or Small Does It All

September 23, 2012, 02:36 PM	#4
tosnyder Member Join Date: February 15, 2011 Posts: 18	It is a pricey little pistol but it is also a very well put together little pistol. Fit an finish on the one I had was excellent and it was fun to shoot. The sales price you listed seems a bit high, I've seen them locally for 1050. I picked mine up used for 850 and sold it a few months ago for 900. Go figure. Everything about it is a 1911 all parts have been scaled down to make it smaller which is probably why it hasn't caught on more. Parts pretty much have to come from SA and there aren't a whole lot of customizing people can do to it. Also I believe the EMP 9 was introduced in 2007 and the EMP 40 in 2008?

September 23, 2012, 04:03 PM	#6
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	OP, the flaw in your premise is that the price of the pistol is not based on the amount of matter in its composition (IE bigger does not necessarily equal more expensive). In the case of 1911s, the opposite is often true. It is hard to reduce the size of the basic design without negative impact on reliability. This is why you see many noted instructors say "Go no smaller than a 4.25" Commander length." A lot of 3" and 3.5" 1911s have earned reputations for being hard to run. So, if a manufacturer can build a small 1911 that gets a good reputation for reliability, that manufacturer can charge a premium. I have no experience with the EMP, so I have no opinion on what it is worth. All I am saying is that a $1107 price tag does not sound unreasonable IF the small 1911 is reliable. Edit: another small 1911 for comparison would be the STI Shadow, which I think is in the same price ballbark; I believe the small Dan Wesson 9mm 1911 costs more.

September 25, 2012, 08:55 PM	#10
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	As others have mentioned, the EMP is not polymer. It has an anodized aluminum frame and steel slide and barrel. That costs some money. Springfield had to re-engineer the 1911 and the EMP uses something like 15 non-standard parts. This was done both to decrease size and increase reliability. As MLeake mentioned, the smaller guns are often more difficult to make reliable. The STI Shadow, Dan Wesson ECO, and most other small 1911s are actually bigger than the EMP. The STI LS is also very small and uses 1911 controls but is not a true 1911 since it uses a linkless barrel. All in all, $1,100 for an EMP is not out of line. Obviously, however, you can buy small 9mms for much less. I have the Kahr CM9 at less than half the price of the EMP. Still, I sometimes think of getting one.

September 26, 2012, 10:08 AM	#12
west5757 Member Join Date: September 10, 2012 Posts: 49	That price does seem high. I got one used for $900. I really enjoy shooting it. We shoot a lot with a dueling tree and that is what I use. Probably at 10 yards or so. It is quite accurate and has a great feel to me but of course that is a matter of opinion. It is also a great shooter for my wife. She recently took her concealed carry class with it and grouped 18 of 20 shots in a 3.5" group.

September 26, 2012, 10:24 AM	#13
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	A used price of $900 would be about 80% of a new price of $1107. That seems right about in line.