The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 4, 2016, 05:08 PM   #1
MeanestNiceGuy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2015
Posts: 12
Squib Load...Anybody Else Experienced This?

What's going on, everybody! I'm new here and I've spent a little bit of time reading around the forums....cool stuff.

I'm a pretty novice shooter (shooting for about a year) and I purchased a Kel-Tec PF9 back in August. I took it to the range a couple of weeks later (got stuck with an audit at work). I had no problems with it.

I took it back to the range again in October and had no problems with it, initially. I fed some Federal target ammo through it, while my girlfriend was firing a Glock 42 (which she enjoyed, nervously).

I let her shoot my Kel-Tec and she passed it back to me and said, "It won't shoot". I just thought that she was afraid to shoot it, so I took it and fired the first round with no problem. I noticed the trigger was a bit harder to pull on the second round, then BOOM! The front of my gun EXPLODED while firing. WTH???

It freaked me out and I swear my left hand was ringing like crazy. I went ahead and put it back in my bag so the range officer wouldn't see it and deny me a chance to rent one from the front desk.

I won't lie, that was a traumatizing experience and my senses haven't been the same at the range...not to mention that it was my girlfriend's first time shooting. I almost wanted to get rid of the gun because I thought I was sold a lemon.

I've been hearing mixed reviews about the Kel-Tec, so I didn't know how to respond to the explosion. When I found out that I had experienced a squib load, I was at ease...a little.

I packed it up and got ready to send it back to Kel-Tec....when I found out (at the counter) that I HAD to send it Next Day Air. I had three price options....$93, $87, or $62....I'm sure you can guess which one I chose, lol.

They sent my gun back (took about 19 days), and now I have it AND my Smith & Wesson MP Shield 9MM (which I bought the day after the explosion) along with my Mossberg 55 that I bought on sale back in August. I'm not sure I want to sell it, but I'm torn, because it's a lot more concealable than my S&W...so I may keep both.

Has anybody else experienced a squib load? I can't be the only one. How did you handle firing after you experienced it?
MeanestNiceGuy is offline  
Old January 4, 2016, 05:15 PM   #2
DMY
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 10, 2015
Posts: 152
Squibs are not uncommon.

I personally have had a few squib reloads, all my fault. My first two were learning lessons as I fired a subsequent round without recognizing the problem and clearing the bullets which were lodged in the barrels of my 1911. Both times, it caused my barrels to bulge in the middle making it inoperable. I was lucky that the only damage on both occasions were to the barrels which were replaced. From what I have read, squibs are not uncommon, but you have to recognize when it happens immediately or else you will have major or really major problems. Sorry to hear about yours.
DMY is offline  
Old January 4, 2016, 05:21 PM   #3
Kosh75287
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 15, 2007
Posts: 820
You don't mention reloads, so I assume it was a factory load that was the squib?
__________________
GOD BLESS JEFF COOPER, whose instructions, consultations, and publications have probably saved more lives than can ever be reliably calculated. DVC, sir.

انجلو. المسلحة. جاهزة. Carpe SCOTCH!
Kosh75287 is offline  
Old January 4, 2016, 06:32 PM   #4
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,706
I had a squib while shooting an IZH35M .22LR target pistol, during the rapid fire section of a Bullseye Match. But, I didn't know it right away. It's a semi automatic pistol, and the squib load must have been enough to cycle the action, but the bullet never left the barrel. The follow up shot pushed the stuck bullet out of the bore, along with the follow up bullet. This badly leaded the bore. All shots afterwards were spraying all over the target. Hey, I'm not that bad of a shot, I thought. I looked down the bore and could see none of the rifling, the bore was that badly leaded. Took it home and cleaned the bore, which took days of scrubbing and 3 or 4 bronze brushes. This happened 7 or 8 years ago, and I still shoot this pistol, as no parts were damaged. It's every bit as accurate as the day I bought it. If it was a centerfire, well, bad things could have happened.

Edit: In case anyone is wondering what ammo this was, it was Winchester T22 Target standard velocity. I still have the remaining brick of ammo this squib came from. I don't have the courage to shoot any more in fear that next time I won't get so lucky.
Mike38 is offline  
Old January 4, 2016, 07:18 PM   #5
Evil Monkey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2005
Posts: 812
Quote:
I don't have the courage to shoot any more in fear that next time I won't get so lucky.
If we stopped firing all brands of ammo that we have heard had squibs and other problems, we would have no ammo to shoot.
__________________
BREAKING NEWS: Local man found in the street yelling "1911" and "45" while drooling, more at 11:00.
Evil Monkey is offline  
Old January 4, 2016, 08:37 PM   #6
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,706
Quote:
If we stopped firing all brands of ammo that we have heard had squibs and other problems, we would have no ammo to shoot.
Good point! I have since shot Winchester .22s, just not out of that brick.
Mike38 is offline  
Old January 4, 2016, 09:47 PM   #7
Targa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2014
Posts: 2,083
Had it happen with an M16 back in the day. Thank God we weren't rapid firing during that course of fire and I was able to catch it before a follow up shot. That could have been interesting.
Targa is offline  
Old January 4, 2016, 09:59 PM   #8
lee n. field
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2002
Location: The same state as Mordor.
Posts: 5,568
Quote:
I won't lie, that was a traumatizing experience and my senses haven't been the same at the range...not to mention that it was my girlfriend's first time shooting. I almost wanted to get rid of the gun because I thought I was sold a lemon.

I've been hearing mixed reviews about the Kel-Tec, so I didn't know how to respond to the explosion. When I found out that I had experienced a squib load, I was at ease...a little.
It's not a Kel Tec problem, it's an ammo problem.

Quote:
that I HAD to send it Next Day Air. I had three price options....$93, $87, or $62....I'm sure you can guess which one I chose, lol.
Welcome to the world of gun ownership. Be glad you didn't have to ship something heavier.
__________________
"As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "
lee n. field is offline  
Old January 4, 2016, 10:08 PM   #9
Evil Monkey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2005
Posts: 812
I would also like to add that if this was some non-name brand ammo that blew up OP's gun, this thread would be booming with 300+ posts about "that crap ammo."

When it's Federal, Winchester, Remington, and other holy water blessed ammo straight out of Jesus's hand, then the attitude is "well, stuff happens."
__________________
BREAKING NEWS: Local man found in the street yelling "1911" and "45" while drooling, more at 11:00.
Evil Monkey is offline  
Old January 4, 2016, 10:16 PM   #10
Badfinger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2015
Posts: 110
Quote:
What's going on, everybody! I'm new here and I've spent a little bit of time reading around the forums....cool stuff.

I'm a pretty novice shooter (shooting for about a year) and I purchased a Kel-Tec PF9 back in August. I took it to the range a couple of weeks later (got stuck with an audit at work). I had no problems with it.

I took it back to the range again in October and had no problems with it, initially. I fed some Federal target ammo through it, while my girlfriend was firing a Glock 42 (which she enjoyed, nervously).

I let her shoot my Kel-Tec and she passed it back to me and said, "It won't shoot". I just thought that she was afraid to shoot it, so I took it and fired the first round with no problem. I noticed the trigger was a bit harder to pull on the second round, then BOOM! The front of my gun EXPLODED while firing. WTH???

It freaked me out and I swear my left hand was ringing like crazy. I went ahead and put it back in my bag so the range officer wouldn't see it and deny me a chance to rent one from the front desk.

I won't lie, that was a traumatizing experience and my senses haven't been the same at the range...not to mention that it was my girlfriend's first time shooting. I almost wanted to get rid of the gun because I thought I was sold a lemon.

I've been hearing mixed reviews about the Kel-Tec, so I didn't know how to respond to the explosion. When I found out that I had experienced a squib load, I was at ease...a little.

I packed it up and got ready to send it back to Kel-Tec....when I found out (at the counter) that I HAD to send it Next Day Air. I had three price options....$93, $87, or $62....I'm sure you can guess which one I chose, lol.

They sent my gun back (took about 19 days), and now I have it AND my Smith & Wesson MP Shield 9MM (which I bought the day after the explosion) along with my Mossberg 55 that I bought on sale back in August. I'm not sure I want to sell it, but I'm torn, because it's a lot more concealable than my S&W...so I may keep both.

Has anybody else experienced a squib load? I can't be the only one. How did you handle firing after you experienced it?
I'm a bit confused here, you said you fired it immediately after the firearm was returned to you and it fired just fine, then you fired it again and it blew up, is that so? If so, you didn't have a squib load, you had an overcharged load, a squib load is a bullet that lodges itself in the bore, obstructing it dangerously! A squib is always marked by a light sounding ignition, such as a childs cap gun would make, the cartridges primer usually being the only propellant.

If you had a squib, then you MISSED it and fired another round into the obstructed bore, and you are solely responsible for the mishap if such is the case, is that what happened?
Badfinger is offline  
Old January 4, 2016, 11:45 PM   #11
willr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 23, 2006
Posts: 356
I have had squibs boh with factory and reloads. The real issue is that you must use eztreme caution using any ammo. The only ones you can relax on are those you may have reloaded yourself -- and taken the care to know that they are reloaded reliably.
willr
willr is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 12:18 AM   #12
Badfinger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2015
Posts: 110
Quote:
I have had squibs boh with factory and reloads. The real issue is that you must use eztreme caution using any ammo. The only ones you can relax on are those you may have reloaded yourself -- and taken the care to know that they are reloaded reliably.
willr
Squibs are the primary reason I never shoot at a public range, I will never place myself in the danger of standing beside some twenty-something as they cackle and giggle while they rapid fire their pistols, and they always do so, I have never been to a public range where some idiot has NOT done just that, and in doing that it is simply impossible for them to cease fire in time!
Badfinger is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 12:33 AM   #13
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,181
Quote:
Squibs are the primary reason I never shoot at a public range, I will never place myself in the danger of standing beside some twenty-something as they cackle and giggle while they rapid fire their pistols, and they always do so, I have never been to a public range where some idiot has NOT done just that, and in doing that it is simply impossible for them to cease fire in time!
I'm not sure where age enters into it. Any drill involving controlled pairs or double taps has the potential for a problem when it comes to squibs. At my range typically shooters of all ages practice those at some point in their sessions. You hope you notice and catch it in time. But if it does happen, it shouldn't take that person and you out. Decent barrels and slides usually bulge rather than turning into fragmentation grenades.
__________________
Know the status of your weapon
Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges
Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture
Maintain situational awareness
TunnelRat is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 07:32 AM   #14
745SW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2011
Location: California
Posts: 776
Brandon Lee, son of Bruce Lee. died from a squib made on movie set. They pulled the bullets & powder, fired primers. Placed bullets back into carts but missed firing one primer. Pop, bullet got stuck in barrel, later was followed by a blank.
745SW is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 07:43 AM   #15
CajunBass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2005
Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia
Posts: 4,766
I've had squibs, but always caught them before firing a second shot. One advantage of being a fairly slow shooter I suppose. The one that happened back in my IPSC days when I was shooting fast, failed to cycle the slide, and I did notice the difference in the sound, so I stopped shooting. All the rest were with revolvers.

I keep an old aluminum shotgun cleaning rod in my range bag, with a plastic hammer to tap out stuck bullets (I only shoot 9mm/38 and up these days). I've never seen any damage to a gun but have no doubt it could happen.

At the range I used to shoot, they had a barrel from a Ruger Speed-Six, cut in half length ways. Inside that barrel, you could count six stuck bullets. The story was the first round squibbed, and the shooter didn't notice it. Didn't blow the gun up either. True? I don't know. It was pretty impressive though.
__________________
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16 (NKJV)
CajunBass is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 08:32 AM   #16
JT-AR-MG42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2008
Posts: 555
I let her shoot my Kel-Tec and
Quote:
she passed it back to me and said, "It won't shoot".
You mention being relatively new to shooting, so advise for what it's worth to you.
You failed a basic rule of safety in the above.

1. Do not make a habit of passing loaded guns back and forth.
Just like the handoff in football, sooner or later one of you will fumble the exchange.

Quote:
I noticed the trigger was a bit harder to pull on the second round, then BOOM! The front of my gun EXPLODED while firing. WTH???
Not clear as to how a squib affects a trigger.

I've been lucky in that I've never had a squib cycle any semi, and I've had my share.

And you say a squib cycled your locked breech 9mm?

Please understand I'm not being critcal of your post.
Hoping to hear from others who have had a squib cycle a locked breech semi.

JT

Last edited by JT-AR-MG42; January 5, 2016 at 08:54 AM.
JT-AR-MG42 is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 02:07 PM   #17
MeanestNiceGuy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2015
Posts: 12
Quote:
Kosh75287
You don't mention reloads, so I assume it was a factory load that was the squib?
Factory load

Last edited by MeanestNiceGuy; January 5, 2016 at 02:13 PM.
MeanestNiceGuy is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 02:12 PM   #18
MeanestNiceGuy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2015
Posts: 12
Quote:
lee n. field
It's not a Kel Tec problem, it's an ammo problem.

Welcome to the world of gun ownership. Be glad you didn't have to ship something heavier.
The range owner told me the same thing, so I was a bit relieved. He told me that I may have had a bad round. Do you weigh your ammo before you go to the range? I've heard some people do it...seems to be a tedious process, but I won't knock it til I try it. As for that shipping cost...I would've lucked up if I was sending off my shotgun or a rifle....at least I would have had the ground shipping option, which I'm sure would have been a bit cheaper. Lol
MeanestNiceGuy is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 02:20 PM   #19
TailGator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,786
I had a squib of my own making, soon after starting reloading. It isn't the squib that does the damage, it is firing a gun with a barrel blocked by the squib - the shot after the squib, in other words. I realized I had a squib. It is something you need to have in your mind. Soft recoil, soft noise, or a malfunction needs to be checked out before you continue shooting.

As Mr. Field said, the fault lies with the ammo, not the gun. If I understand you correctly, Kel-Tec repaired or replaced a pistol that was severely damaged by a combination of bad ammo and operator error (in the sense that you didn't recognize the squib). That is quite generous on their part.
TailGator is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 02:54 PM   #20
MeanestNiceGuy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2015
Posts: 12
Quote:
Badfinger
I'm a bit confused here, you said you fired it immediately after the firearm was returned to you and it fired just fine, then you fired it again and it blew up, is that so? If so, you didn't have a squib load, you had an overcharged load, a squib load is a bullet that lodges itself in the bore, obstructing it dangerously! A squib is always marked by a light sounding ignition, such as a childs cap gun would make, the cartridges primer usually being the only propellant.

If you had a squib, then you MISSED it and fired another round into the obstructed bore, and you are solely responsible for the mishap if such is the case, is that what happened?
Yes, she passed it to me and the first round fired just fine. The explosion happened on the following round.

It could have been an overcharged load, but there was an empty shell casing lodged in the chamber after I field stripped it later on. I'm going post a pic in a few minutes.

At this point, I've accepted responsibility for the incident, whether it was a bad round or not. After noticing how hard it was to pull the trigger, I should've stopped at that very second.
MeanestNiceGuy is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 02:56 PM   #21
MeanestNiceGuy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2015
Posts: 12
Quote:
TailGator
I had a squib of my own making, soon after starting reloading. It isn't the squib that does the damage, it is firing a gun with a barrel blocked by the squib - the shot after the squib, in other words. I realized I had a squib. It is something you need to have in your mind. Soft recoil, soft noise, or a malfunction needs to be checked out before you continue shooting.

As Mr. Field said, the fault lies with the ammo, not the gun. If I understand you correctly, Kel-Tec repaired or replaced a pistol that was severely damaged by a combination of bad ammo and operator error (in the sense that you didn't recognize the squib). That is quite generous on their part.
Yeah they replaced it, thank Heavens!

You're right, it's usually the shot after the squib (I saw the empty shell casing still lodged in the chamber).
MeanestNiceGuy is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 03:09 PM   #22
MeanestNiceGuy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2015
Posts: 12

This was the aftermath....
MeanestNiceGuy is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 03:15 PM   #23
MeanestNiceGuy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2015
Posts: 12
Quote:
JT-AR-MG42
You mention being relatively new to shooting, so advise for what it's worth to you.
You failed a basic rule of safety in the above.

1. Do not make a habit of passing loaded guns back and forth.
Just like the handoff in football, sooner or later one of you will fumble the exchange.

I've been lucky in that I've never had a squib cycle any semi, and I've had my share.

And you say a squib cycled your locked breech 9mm?

Please understand I'm not being critcal of your post.
Hoping to hear from others who have had a squib cycle a locked breech semi.
No offense taken, I can only be thankful for your insight!

Yes, a squib cycled during fire.
MeanestNiceGuy is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 03:22 PM   #24
MeanestNiceGuy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2015
Posts: 12
Quote:
CajunBass
I've had squibs, but always caught them before firing a second shot. One advantage of being a fairly slow shooter I suppose. The one that happened back in my IPSC days when I was shooting fast, failed to cycle the slide, and I did notice the difference in the sound, so I stopped shooting. All the rest were with revolvers.

I keep an old aluminum shotgun cleaning rod in my range bag, with a plastic hammer to tap out stuck bullets (I only shoot 9mm/38 and up these days). I've never seen any damage to a gun but have no doubt it could happen.

At the range I used to shoot, they had a barrel from a Ruger Speed-Six, cut in half length ways. Inside that barrel, you could count six stuck bullets. The story was the first round squibbed, and the shooter didn't notice it. Didn't blow the gun up either. True? I don't know. It was pretty impressive though.
Sheesh!

I posted a pic a few minutes ago. When I say mine made a LOUD popping noise and all I saw was smoke and the spring hanging from it.

I'll make sure I take a rod and a hammer with me at all times....not that I'm anticipating another squib.

I won't lie, it messed me up...had me second guessing every round I shot afterwards. I'm a slow shooter, mainly because I don't like to run through ammo so quick (lol). After the incident, waiting on me to empty a magazine was like waiting on an answer for Final Jeopardy.

I've seen pics of people's hands after a squib load....didn't help my fear at all, lol. Just reading you guys's replies, watching a bunch of videos, and gaining insight from experienced shooters has helped me and built my confidence back up.
MeanestNiceGuy is offline  
Old January 5, 2016, 03:57 PM   #25
SIGSHR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2005
Posts: 4,700
A couple with my reloads, both times I caught them in time. I now keep a rod in my shooting boxes for just that reason. One time in the National Guard I had a problem with squibs/misfires while running an M1911A1 range. GI Ammo.
SIGSHR is offline  
Reply

Tags
crazy , kel tec pf9 , squib loads

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.11148 seconds with 8 queries