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July 1, 2013, 05:07 PM | #51 | |
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Many old firing ranges were constructed with very little forethought or safety consideration. If peoples homes are being hit by bullets, endangering the lives of the occupants, then the range should be shut down or redesigned. Recently a guy on one of the websites i visit recommend the use of a large round hay bale for a backstop. |
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July 1, 2013, 05:07 PM | #52 | |
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The problem with the "safety fan" notion is that most ranges don't own the land on which they are assuming there is a "safety fan." They are basing their range's safety on the risk incurred by the properties around them that they don't own. That is a problem.
It really isn't like the issue of the smell from a pig farm. Pig farm smell isn't illegal. The Caldwell's didn't assume the risk for being shot by being located near the range. That tactic was tried in the trial, the range opening in 1986, the Caldwell home built in 1990, and the Caldwells moving into the home in 1998. However, the jury didn't agree with the argument and made a decision based on GA law. Quote:
The lawyer makes a similar argument of noise at an airport, but the the Caldwells were not complaining about the noise. It really isn't the same thing. Based on Google Earth and using the timeline feature that shows images over time taken of the location to identify the particular residence, the Caldwell home is approximately 166 yards from the backstop of the 100 yard berm. Certainly stupid to buy a home there, but being stupid didn't mean losing their rights.
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"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange Last edited by Double Naught Spy; July 1, 2013 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Removing Google image |
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July 1, 2013, 07:01 PM | #53 | |||||||
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On the other hand, a different analysis would be appropriate were a claim based on a theory of strict liability for a hazardous activity (see post 19 and the discussion of Rylands v. Fletcher).
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July 1, 2013, 07:11 PM | #54 | ||
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July 1, 2013, 09:19 PM | #55 | |
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The trespass defense and the suggestion that the bullet holes were from hunters and other shooters not associated with the range was raised and discounted.
Also, the reason for the suit appears stated here... http://www.opposingviews.com/i/socie...arby-gun-range Quote:
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July 3, 2013, 12:32 PM | #56 |
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There was a range near me that had a documented problem with bullets leaving the range. They eventually installed barriers just above the trajectory of "on-target" bullets so that it is nearly impossible to shoot above the target backers, much less the berm, when seated at the bench.
My own range uses a similar setup. There are elevated wood barriers at 6and12' out filled with stones just above your sightlines at benches and off-hand positions. If I were 2" taller I'd be unable to shoot off hand but as-is it's not a problem. This range has a very large natural backstop but is near quite a lot of residential land and I think it was an added safety concession to the township. |
July 3, 2013, 08:09 PM | #57 |
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Did they inspect the trees between the range and the house. If 27 rounds hit the house, how many hit the trees ?
Looks like a trap shooting range on the other side of the pond ?? |
July 3, 2013, 08:59 PM | #58 | |
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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July 3, 2013, 09:56 PM | #59 | |
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"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
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July 4, 2013, 07:58 AM | #60 |
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I've never been comfortable with the numbers of shooters who find ways to miss the backstop, no matter how high and wide it is. No big deal to them. Another one got away. So what?
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July 4, 2013, 08:22 AM | #61 | |
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Nowadays the only rounds that hit the nearby industrial park come from he adjacent Sheriff's range. |
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July 4, 2013, 08:47 AM | #62 | |
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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July 4, 2013, 02:54 PM | #63 |
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I would think that a city council or zoning commission or other municipal or county gov agency could be pretty leniant with their decisions. It's not a court of law. If the city council simply "thought" that the range was a danger to the nearby subdivision, they could probably force them to modify or shut down. No particular evidence or burdon of proof necessary.
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July 4, 2013, 09:26 PM | #64 | |
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What was brought out is the range was being used for shooting scenarios that it was not originally designed for and was retrofitted for defensive pistol use but not properly.
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Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18 Last edited by Gbro; July 4, 2013 at 10:36 PM. |
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July 4, 2013, 09:44 PM | #65 |
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Looking at the Google Maps satellite view, the first house downrange isn't really "down range" ... it's rather clearly off to the right of the line of fire. In fact, a bullet passing over either of the two berms wouldn't hit that house, it would have to travel further and would possibly hit a house farther away. If stray rounds were hitting that trailer house, people weren't even shooting at the targets, they were shooting well to the right of the entire berm structure.
And I am NOT going to say that couldn't happen, because I've seen what some people do at shooting ranges. |
July 5, 2013, 07:52 AM | #66 |
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Bullets had been hitting that residence for years. The owners refused to fix their firing range and got sued. The jury has spoken and the situation is resolved-for now.
There is this case from Texas: http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/...181533811.html |
July 5, 2013, 08:06 AM | #67 | |
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The north end of the 100 yard berm is in direct alignment between the shooting shed and the Caldwell's house. Check out the pics of the range from Advanced Bullets' website. If you look carefully, you can see that the 50 yard range is also in between as well. From the far north shooting positions, so is part of the south end of the 25 yard range. http://www.advancedbullets.com/ranges.htm
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"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange Last edited by Double Naught Spy; July 5, 2013 at 08:21 AM. |
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July 5, 2013, 12:10 PM | #68 | |||
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I have would, stone and dirt as well as natural topography on my firing range. The stories about people moving in to places and then complaining reminds me of an old church in Mystic CT. When I was a kid we would spend summers on a lake near there and a small church always range the bell on Sundays and Wednesdays. A big city lawyer moved in to town for the "Small town atmosphere" and then complained about the bell ringing. The church, which had been ringing the bell for at least 150 years, was ordered to stop.
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July 5, 2013, 03:59 PM | #69 |
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That is the funny thing about rights. Just because you were here first does not necessarily mean that you have more rights than I do as a newcomer to the area.
However, having bullets leave the property isn't the same thing as a noise issue with a church, is it? The Caldwells were not complaining about the noise from the range, right? They were complaining about a life threatening situation where bullets were illegally leaving the range's property and doing so repetitively and striking their home and causing property damage. They had complained with the range on numerous occasions and the range failed to correct the issue despite having YEARS of opportunity to do so The Caldwells sued as a form of last resort when they were not able to get relief through more direct channels.
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"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
July 5, 2013, 05:44 PM | #70 |
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I agree with you. Regardless of who was there first, if I found out I was damaging or allowing damage to occur to my neighbors property, we would cease fire and either find another place to shoot or fix the problems that led to the damage in the first place.
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