Need help Identifying.

Rusty_Bucket · March 19, 2015, 04:07 PM

Hello everyone, this is my first post here.

This box of weapons have been sitting in my parents closet for 60+ years. I have tried researching about it and have hit a dead end. The only markings i see on it are, "Dayton" on side plate and it has "Jake Ramey & Bloomington ,Ill" stamped into the top of the barrell.

I found a small article about Jake Ramey, which i included in the pictures.

I have the name of the family it was passed down to us from aswell.

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Rusty_Bucket · March 19, 2015, 04:08 PM

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mapsjanhere · March 20, 2015, 08:01 AM

From the way the nipple mount is cutting into the decoration, and the welded cuts on the hammer, the gun got majorly changed at some point during its life. The reason you have two different markers/locations on the gun might be that it got barreled at that time too.

SDC · March 20, 2015, 12:03 PM

Curtis L. Johnson's "Gunmakers of Illinois" shows Jacob Ramey as being active between about 1866 and his death in 1883; he was partners with a Preston Bentley until around 1868, but this book has more info on Bentley than on Ramey. HTH.

Rusty_Bucket · March 20, 2015, 12:22 PM

Thank you for your reply.

That box of weapons was passed down to us from the Gunnell Family. Mr. Gunnell was a lawyer in Sioux city. My aunt was his secretary for 30+ years (1880 - 1910s). He told my aunt that those were his father in the civil war.

Everytime i send pictures out of this, nobody can give me any information.
They seem to be very persistent on wanting a price to buy it tho..

pjt · March 20, 2015, 07:31 PM

Can't tell where you are located, but if your are going to Nashville for the NRA convention, might want to take your pictures...

Jim Watson · March 21, 2015, 09:36 AM

I don't know what more information you expect to be told.
You have the maker, a known gunsmith of the era, and you have a bit of provenance by family tradition. That is really pretty good.

I think "Dayton" on the lockplate indicates that ol' Jake bought the lock from a vendor in Dayton rather than filing out every little piece himself.

The neat welds on the hammer and the drum poking through the inlay are repairs that are not likely traceable.

Rusty_Bucket · March 21, 2015, 11:41 AM

Thanks everyone, I greatly appreciate all of the information supplied.

I'm not able to go to Tennessee for the convention.. Does anybody know of a reputable civil war Authenticate/ Appraisal company in Arizona?

James K · March 22, 2015, 11:05 PM

That rifle is pretty late, as indicated by the maker's working dates. I would expect at that period that most of the parts and pieces would have been bought from gunsmith supply companies (there were a number of them, like Brownell's is today) rather than made by the gunsmith. If you remove the barrel from the stock, you might find a supplier's name stamped on the bottom, and the various pieces of "furniture" were probably purchased also.

Jim

Erno86 · March 25, 2015, 12:52 PM

What's the history on the cavalry sword and scabbard?

Scorch · March 31, 2015, 12:44 AM

That is not a cavalry saber, it is a foot officer's sword.

Rusty_Bucket · March 31, 2015, 04:15 PM

Again, I would like to say Thank You for all the information provided, it has helped alot.

As for the sword...

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mete · April 1, 2015, 01:07 PM

Scorch, I learned never to assume when looking at a Civil War sword. A very curved sword I was sure was a cavalry sword .No , not that one , it belonged to an artillery unit !!

One of my assumptions was that an artillery unit would be happier with a short sword !!

Scorch · April 2, 2015, 01:48 AM

mete-
That's not a bad assumption, many artillerymen were armed with short swords, great for defense and working. Long swords were generally a symbol of rank.

An Ames or Tiffany cavalry saber was a lot more curved than a foot officer's sword.

March 19, 2015, 04:07 PM	#1
Rusty_Bucket Junior Member Join Date: March 18, 2015 Posts: 5	Need help Identifying. Hello everyone, this is my first post here. This box of weapons have been sitting in my parents closet for 60+ years. I have tried researching about it and have hit a dead end. The only markings i see on it are, "Dayton" on side plate and it has "Jake Ramey & Bloomington ,Ill" stamped into the top of the barrell. I found a small article about Jake Ramey, which i included in the pictures. I have the name of the family it was passed down to us from aswell. [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]

March 19, 2015, 04:08 PM	#2
Rusty_Bucket Junior Member Join Date: March 18, 2015 Posts: 5	[IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]

March 20, 2015, 08:01 AM	#3
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	From the way the nipple mount is cutting into the decoration, and the welded cuts on the hammer, the gun got majorly changed at some point during its life. The reason you have two different markers/locations on the gun might be that it got barreled at that time too. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

March 20, 2015, 12:03 PM	#4
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	Curtis L. Johnson's "Gunmakers of Illinois" shows Jacob Ramey as being active between about 1866 and his death in 1883; he was partners with a Preston Bentley until around 1868, but this book has more info on Bentley than on Ramey. HTH. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

March 25, 2015, 12:52 PM	#10
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	What's the history on the cavalry sword and scabbard? __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell

March 20, 2015, 12:22 PM	#5
Rusty_Bucket Junior Member Join Date: March 18, 2015 Posts: 5	Thank you for your reply. That box of weapons was passed down to us from the Gunnell Family. Mr. Gunnell was a lawyer in Sioux city. My aunt was his secretary for 30+ years (1880 - 1910s). He told my aunt that those were his father in the civil war. Everytime i send pictures out of this, nobody can give me any information. They seem to be very persistent on wanting a price to buy it tho..

March 20, 2015, 07:31 PM	#6
pjt Junior Member Join Date: November 22, 2009 Posts: 3	Can't tell where you are located, but if your are going to Nashville for the NRA convention, might want to take your pictures...

March 21, 2015, 09:36 AM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I don't know what more information you expect to be told. You have the maker, a known gunsmith of the era, and you have a bit of provenance by family tradition. That is really pretty good. I think "Dayton" on the lockplate indicates that ol' Jake bought the lock from a vendor in Dayton rather than filing out every little piece himself. The neat welds on the hammer and the drum poking through the inlay are repairs that are not likely traceable.

March 21, 2015, 11:41 AM	#8
Rusty_Bucket Junior Member Join Date: March 18, 2015 Posts: 5	Thanks everyone, I greatly appreciate all of the information supplied. I'm not able to go to Tennessee for the convention.. Does anybody know of a reputable civil war Authenticate/ Appraisal company in Arizona?

March 22, 2015, 11:05 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	That rifle is pretty late, as indicated by the maker's working dates. I would expect at that period that most of the parts and pieces would have been bought from gunsmith supply companies (there were a number of them, like Brownell's is today) rather than made by the gunsmith. If you remove the barrel from the stock, you might find a supplier's name stamped on the bottom, and the various pieces of "furniture" were probably purchased also. Jim

March 31, 2015, 12:44 AM	#11
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	That is not a cavalry saber, it is a foot officer's sword. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

March 31, 2015, 04:15 PM	#12
Rusty_Bucket Junior Member Join Date: March 18, 2015 Posts: 5	Again, I would like to say Thank You for all the information provided, it has helped alot. As for the sword... [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]

April 1, 2015, 01:07 PM	#13
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Scorch, I learned never to assume when looking at a Civil War sword. A very curved sword I was sure was a cavalry sword .No , not that one , it belonged to an artillery unit !! One of my assumptions was that an artillery unit would be happier with a short sword !! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

April 2, 2015, 01:48 AM	#14
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	mete- That's not a bad assumption, many artillerymen were armed with short swords, great for defense and working. Long swords were generally a symbol of rank. An Ames or Tiffany cavalry saber was a lot more curved than a foot officer's sword. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services