The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 9, 2013, 12:31 AM   #1
rmocarsky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Posts: 406
.45 recoil

Gunners,

If one were to fire the same .45 acp cartridge from a 5'' 1911 and a single action revolver weighing the exact weight as the 1911, and a double action revolver weighing the exact weight as the 1911, would the recoil differ among the 3?

Rmocarsky
rmocarsky is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 12:36 AM   #2
Dashunde
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 22, 2004
Posts: 2,018
The felt recoil in the auto would be less than the two revolvers, which would be the same.
Dashunde is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 12:47 AM   #3
Rainbow Demon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2012
Posts: 397
Depending on your grip and hand size felt recoil with a single action should be less than either the autopistol or the double action.
The single action bucks and rolls with muzzle rise that would be a problem with a first follow up with a double action, but the roll back and up absorbs recoil that would otherwise be directed into the web and palm.
The 1911 recoil operation does slow down the transmission of recoil to the hand, which reduces felt recoil, but almost all is directed straight back into the web, with much less muzzle rise.
The modern double action is more of a saw handle than a plow handle, and while very well designed for full control and rapid recovery, directs more unrestrained recoil into the hand. The price you pay for controlability with rapid follow up.

In the end recoil impulse is the same with all, its just how it is transmitted.
Rainbow Demon is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 01:46 AM   #4
Buzzcook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 6,126
Rainbow has it in one.
Buzzcook is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 07:23 AM   #5
PatientWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 944
I believe where the mass is located on the revolvers may also affect how the recoil is felt. In theory, if you have more mass on top of the barrel, the increased moment of inertia will decrease the tendency of the revolver to rotate in your grip (assuming the same shape and size grip), effectively meaning it would be more of a push than a snap, also allowing you to keep on target better.

Just my opinion.
PatientWolf is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 07:59 AM   #6
Gdawgs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2009
Location: MN
Posts: 656
45s don't have a lot of recoil in either gun, so why worry about it?
Gdawgs is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 09:54 AM   #7
PatientWolf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 944
"45s don't have a lot of recoil in either gun, so why worry about it?"

+1
PatientWolf is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 11:04 AM   #8
Bob Wright
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 2,986
You're talking about a .45 ACP. There is no "buck and roll."

In a moderate weight handgun, the .45 ACP's recoil is minimal.

Bob Wright
Bob Wright is offline  
Old January 9, 2013, 08:33 PM   #9
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
Where are you going to find a SA the same weight?
Hawg is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 01:33 AM   #10
Edward429451
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
What's 45 recoil?
Edward429451 is offline  
Old January 10, 2013, 04:17 AM   #11
warningshot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 7, 2009
Posts: 995
The recoil from a 'fourdee5' will break yer arm if you don't hold it right.
warningshot is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 12:05 PM   #12
glenncal1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2009
Location: Denver area
Posts: 504
It just so happens that I went to the range yesterday with my Ruger 1911 and my S&W 1917. Using 230 grain ball ammo. I would say that the recoil sensation was different but not really greater on either on. Now I do use Pachmyer grippers on the 1917 which distribute the recoil over a much larger area that the standard Smith magna grips. Getting a a good fitting grip for YOUR hand makes a huge difference.
__________________
Jim

Many K and N Frames
glenncal1 is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 12:12 PM   #13
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
I find my Colt 1917 has sharper recoil than my .45 1911s. This is probably partly due to the lack of a slide's movement to spread out the recoil impulse, but mostly due to the fact that the old GI grips on the 1917 do not fit my hand all that well.
MLeake is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 01:30 PM   #14
tipoc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 11, 2004
Location: Redwood City, Ca.
Posts: 4,114
Why do you ask the question rmocarsky?

As others have said there is a difference between the mechanical recoil and the felt recoil. If the guns are the same weight (due to longer barrel, heavier grips, etc), the ammo uses the same powder, bullet weight the same than technically the actual recoil will measure the same.

But the felt recoil will differ quite a bit. As you can see from the above posts opinions vary on which "feels" greater or lesser.

tipoc
tipoc is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 02:31 PM   #15
BigD_in_FL
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: The "Gunshine State"
Posts: 1,981
As stated, there is a difference between ACTUAL recoil - a simple math equation, and PERCEIVED, aka FELT recoil - which is subjective and will vary among every shooter. Grip style, how it is held, individual hand size, etc., will all play a role in how the recoil is perceived
BigD_in_FL is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 03:17 PM   #16
WIL TERRY
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2000
Location: BLACK HILLS
Posts: 1,322
AN INTERESTING THING is how little actual recoil you do feel from the cartridge firing, as what you DO feel is the slide hitting the back of the frame. I have shot a 45 autoloading pistol with a slide lock and it had all the recoil of a healthy beer-burp, the recoil was ALMOST non-existent.
WIL TERRY is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 04:38 PM   #17
Bob Wright
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 2012
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 2,986
As a shooter more accustomed to revovlers, the recoil sensation of auto loaders is distracting to me.

Shooting a Colt Government Model .45, I feel first the recoil impulse of the cartridge firing, then the slide contacting the stops, then slamming forward. And, when the last round is fired, the lack of the forward movemnet stop. Distracting.

Bob Wright
Bob Wright is offline  
Old January 11, 2013, 04:49 PM   #18
nutty ned
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2006
Posts: 765
I can't remember a difference.
nutty ned is offline  
Old January 12, 2013, 08:03 AM   #19
Ozzieman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 6,117
as what you DO feel is the slide hitting the back of the frame

I don’t quite follow that statement.
Since the same force be it the round firing with the lock or without the lock stopping the slide it’s the same impulse on the gun and the hand ether way. The only difference would be the action of the slide going into battery.
Also the fact that the bullet is well out of the barrel before the hand has reacted from the recoil and the slide has not completed it travel locking the slide or not wouldn’t make any difference.
I shoot a lot of 1911’s and with the same round they all are different. My gold cup is like shooting a pant ball gun yet the same round in my Kimber Royal is brutal. But it’s not the round it’s the fit to the hand. The Kimber is short and doesn’t fit my hand that well but I don’t mind since it’s so easy to carry.
Of all the guns I have shot over 40+ years the only gun that I found uncomfortable to shoot was an S&W 19 with the small grips. 6 rounds and I never wanted to shoot one again. Set of Pachmayr’s and it was comfortable.
Again as so many have said, it’s not the round or gun, it’s the fit to the hand.
__________________
It was a sad day when I discovered my universal remote control did not in fact control the universe.

Did you hear about the latest study.....5 out of 6 liberals say that Russian Roulette is safe.
Ozzieman is offline  
Old January 12, 2013, 08:41 AM   #20
B.L.E.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX
Posts: 2,603
Quote:
I don’t quite follow that statement.
Since the same force be it the round firing with the lock or without the lock stopping the slide it’s the same impulse on the gun and the hand ether way. The only difference would be the action of the slide going into battery
Have you ever compared the recoil of a pneumatic air rifle to a spring piston air rifle? The recoil of the pneumatic is almost non existant, there is so little momentum in that 8 grain pellet but the recoil of the springer is quite noticeable even though the pellet momentum is comparable. That recoil comes from the piston accelerating and then slamming to a stop.

My semi auto .22 pistol has a much different recoil feel than my .22 revolver due to the slide slamming back and then forward.
B.L.E. is offline  
Old January 12, 2013, 09:26 AM   #21
bigkrackers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 21, 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 117
This question has already been asked more or less.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=478419

Felt recoil is subjective. All things being equal, the recoil is the same.
bigkrackers is offline  
Old January 12, 2013, 10:04 AM   #22
P-990
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2, 2002
Location: Only1/2WayThere
Posts: 1,316
Felt recoil is going to depend on how the grips fit you. As others have said, neither should be problematic recoil-wise.

I've fired .45 ACP from 5" 1911s, a 4" 1911, a 4" S&W Mountain Gun (wish I had that one myself now! ) and a S&W M&P45. Of the bunch the M&P kicked the "hardest". A 5" 1911 or the 4" S&W N-frame is a pretty soft-shooting big-bore IMO.
__________________
NRA Master, Highpower Rifle, Across-the-Course
NRA Expert, Highpower Rifle, Mid-Range Prone
P-990 is offline  
Old January 12, 2013, 10:28 AM   #23
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
The M&P is both lighter and top heavier than the 1911s and Mountain Gun, so that is not surprising. For its light weight, the M&P is pretty mild, especially if the correct backstrap for the shooter's hand is installed.
MLeake is offline  
Old January 12, 2013, 10:29 AM   #24
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
With regard to slide movement - it is derived from the cartridge's recoil impulse, and will be less than the initial, raw impulse. It may be distracting to revolver shooters, but it does not and can not amplify recoil.
MLeake is offline  
Old January 12, 2013, 03:03 PM   #25
dajowi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2005
Posts: 1,196
Recoil is subjective...your experience may vary
dajowi is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.10984 seconds with 10 queries