HD Shotgun Lights - do the curly wires get in the way - switches work ok?

[OnlyInAmerica]

I'm looking around for a cheap HD 12ga. I've been admiring the all-in-one forend/light units but they would potentially cost more than the gun!

If I have to go with the cheaper clamp on the front type with remote pressure switch, will I have trouble with the dangly wiring? Does it get in the way? And, do the pressure switches allow one press, stay on lighting or are they momentary I wonder?

Anyone actually used such a thing in anger?

[gordo b.]

The curly wires are NG in my opinion AND your fingers tend to bounce off a pressure switch in most applications, resulting in a light flashing off during shot which ruins the follow thru and assessing the target.You can attach a flashlight like a Surefire with an optional tail cap click thru to on/partial press for scan in such a way it is right under your fingers and not have a problem.

[Double Naught Spy]

I am amazed to see loose or bouncy curly wires on rifles and shotguns, especially when used by entry teams and such. I avoid them for my HD guns. I have enough issues with potential snag problems to not add to the possible catastrophies by adding curly wires.

I am surprised I don't see folks zip-tieing the wires in place, expecially on fixed stock guns, taping, or something to simply hold them in place and preclude snagging, but that doesn't seem to happen often, binding the wires, that is.

[leadcounsel]

Nah...

Get an 870 Express HD version, usually found on sale for under $250.

Get a Advanced Technology barrel flashlight holder for $10

http://www.atigunstocks.com/items/SMC1100.html

Then get an inexpensive NON lithium flashlight. Try a coastal flashlight from Costco for $15. Excellent lights and I bought 3 myself.

My picture is too large KB for an attachment here, but I'll email it to you if you want to see it.

[BobK]

I have a rail attachment on my 870 so I can put a Streamlight M3 or comparable light on it with no wires. Works good.

[Lee Lapin]

I dislike curly cords or dangly wires on HD guns in the extreme. Murphy is always hanging around, remember, and any temptation might be taken advantage of.

I like the light rail/detachable weaponlight approach also myself, ymmv. Some of the new LED offerings are looking like a great solution on shotguns, though I have yet to test one. LEDs are a lot more shock resistant than incandescent bulbs after all, if the batteries and switches don't pound themselves into insensibility in the unit, an LED light should hold up well on a shotgun. Of course any shotgun light system should be easily detachable IMHO, no sense in pounding it to pieces with recoil during daylight practice. But you _should_ use the light in training/practice, 2AM when an odd noise happens down the hall is not the time and place you want your first experience actually using your weaponlight to happen.

Whatever light system you get, it should have a constant-on feature IMO- suppose you light up Mr. Badguy in your living room, tell him to prone out on the floor and freeze, and he does- what then? Gonna take your hand off the tape switch and let your weaponlight go dark so you can turn on a lamp/light switch, pick up the phone, dial 911? A constant-on switch solves that problem, you can still shoot the gun (one round anyway, if you don't have a semiauto for HD) with one hand if needed.

hth,

lpl/nc

[OnlyInAmerica]

The major advantage of the integrated fore-end slide and light (to me anyway) would seem to be that the switch(es) would be under hand with the gun at the ready position.

How do you guys find the seperate units work in action? Is it practical to switch on the aquire the target, sequentially?

Again I apologise for my ignorance.

[Double Naught Spy]

For weapon lights, you want the ability to be able to turn them on and turn them off quickly. Some have the advantage of being left on and that is great for some situations (my rifle has it but not my shotgun, both dedicated lights). Understand that you want to be able to activitate the like immediately, with normal firing grip and deactivitate just the same. It is not always prudent to have a light on or off and so you want to be able to toggle as necessary.

For home work, I used the lights outside the home at night or only when going into a darkened room where upon I then activate the overhead light ASAP.

Why the overhead light? Weapon lights are a special tool that comes with significant advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is the option of having light anytime and anywhere. For example, mine came in useful checking noises in the attic at night where I don't have much lighting. It was an opossum. I crawled under rafters with my shotgun and its light before spotting the problem. Such lights are good for quick checks of things like closets where belongings may block closet lighting (see teenage daughters for reference).

The disadvantage is that weapon lights or any lights let the opposition know right where you are. I like the folks who think weapon lights give the bad guys an aiming point to shoot you squarely. If going against well trained bad guys, this is the case. For those righties using the FBI method of holding the light high and left of their body so bullets fly {supposedly} toward the light, when dealing with an untrained rightie bad guy with a flinch, shots aimed toward your high left will impact to his low left...not good. Anyway, that is part of the reason for the need to be able to turn off the light quickly, regardless of where deployed from your person.

I have met folks at Thunder Ranch (NOT instructors) who stated and had trained themselves in clearing their homes with weapon lights because they knew to be true that they knew their house better than anyone else and they could be their own sort of masters of the night in their own homes with weapon or handheld lights. This is stupid. Bad guys don't need intimate knowledge of your home to hide behind a couch, wait for you and your light, and unless you sweep their position the very first thing and find them peeking around the couch with their gun, then they have the advantage because those clearing rooms with lights focus on the illuminated area. So long as the bad guy is in the dark, he feel safe. He knows exactly where you are and you are clueless as to his location. Weapon lights and dark rooms work well with SWAT teams who have members that each have designated areas of illumination and coverage. Most home operaters are single units, not teams. SWAT teams use said lights as they can never count on a suspect's home being properly illuminated with interior lighting or even electricity. So they have to utilize weapon and handheld lights as primary lighting for the initial entry/confrontation. Notice in documentaries that when possible, they opt for interior lighting for the later business and final securing because on a broad scale, standard interior lighting is better overall, but still may need to be supplemented, so they still use weapon and handheld lights as needed.

So the overhead light sort of equals up things between the homeowner and the intruder, sort of light dealing with a person in the day time. Critically, it helps give the homeowner peripheral lighting that might be critical in not only locating the intruder, but potentially instruderS if the intruder isn't alone. Target fixation is bad enough in regular lighting and is reported to be that much worse when all the good guy has is a narrow beam flashlight.

Weapon or handheld lights for home defense situations should be utilized as situation-specific tools AS NEEDED, only turned on when needed, and not and the full time primary lighting unless that is what is needed.

[bermo61]

I have an M4 with a streamlight. The curly wires are not necessary because their only purpose is to shorten a long cord keeping it out of your way. Why the hell would you need that for a pressure switch that is a few inches away? Now for holster retention of your handgun it makes sense. So for a tactical light mounted on a weapon its just for looks.

The pressure switch is very cool though. I can illuminate instantaneously and disappear just as fast however the switch on my tail cap turns it on permanently. Just remember when you illuminate you are a sitting duck so illuminate right before you shoot to positively identify your target.

[bermo61]

I just read double spy naught's post.....DITTO!

[OnlyInAmerica]

Lead Council
you say "Get an 870 Express HD version, usually found on sale for under $250"

Can you tell me where to look for this sort of price please?
Lowest I can find is well over $300

[Lee Lapin]

only,

Take a look at the instruction set for one of the shotgun mounts that will fit Streamlight's (and others, at this point) weaponlights at
http://www.insightlights.com/uploads...apter_inst.pdf . That should give you some idea as to one possible option. There's a different mount that fits under the magazine cap on 870s that lack magazine extensions, I have a couple of those and they work well also. I have a $50 LED light on order that should fit that sort of mount also, it's an import naturally. We'll see how that works out in time.

Also take a look at the piece posted at http://www.jtk3.com/laissezfirearm/shotgun.htm . There's a blow-by-blow of another sort of DIY weaponlight rig posted there. There are of course lots of similar options available from a variety of sources, this is just a small sample.

I'm not one to advocate roaming around at night clearing your own house- better IMHO to hunker down behind cover with your shotgun and await the arrival of whatever trouble is in the offing. It's a lot easier- and safer IMO- to set up a remotely controlled lamp down the hallway to be switched on from your bedside table, or to install a couple of night lights, so that anything appearing in the bedroom door is silhouetted in the light while you hide in the dark. Of course, some folks have others in the home they have to secure, so some movement may be called for to protect children etc. A cell phone (intruders sometimes rip out the phone line) and a weapon with a light mounted on it will go a long way toward helping you handle any uninvited nocturnal visitors. I am firmly in favor of using a weaponlight in the HD role, you should not shoot what you cannot see.

As to 870 prices, better IMO to shop around for a good used older model (pre- magazine tube dimples, pre-plastic trigger plate, pre-locking safety) Express gun, or a used Wingmaster, or Police trade-in. The 870 is legendary for its durability, short barrels are fairly widely available and easy to interchange, and new production- even some of the vaunted 870Ps- are having some teething problems of late, according to reports I am hearing. 'Good used' might well be better than new these days.

hth,

lpl/nc

[leadcounsel]

870 Express retails for $275 at Walmart. Often see it there and Garts Sports (now Sports Authority) for under $250. Bought mine a few years ago for $220. Mossbergs are often on sale for $220 at Big 5.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=3170099


I agree with DNS above in part. I agree that you should not be clearing your house. Therefore, I don't think the ability to switch on/off rapidly is that important. If I were in a real HD situation, I would likely take a defensive position and hold it. It would generally be a mistake to clear your house, and that is common sense and that is what the 'experts' generally advise. I think an immediate on/off toggle may be useful but not for the price of the special forearm (which I think is about $100-200 or something ridiculous). I think it's quick enough to click my light on/off despite it's just attached with clamp. Take the extra money and outfit the gun with usefull accessories such as a pistol buttstock grip, mag tube extenstion, and shell saddle.

[OnlyInAmerica]

LeadCounsel
I didn't think WalMart did the HD (18") versions - I couldn't find in their online catalog
Your ref is to the 26"
Maybe they don't think humans are valid hunting game? :-)

[OnlyInAmerica]

"As to 870 prices, better IMO to shop around for a good used older model (pre- magazine tube dimples, pre-plastic trigger plate, pre-locking safety) Express gun, or a used Wingmaster"

The local gun shop has a used Wingmaster 18" barrel with rifle sights (!??) - its only chambered for 2 3/4" shells though. Is that a problem? It has a few scratches and dings on the wood but feels very smooth. He wants $299 + taxes. No magazine extension.

I wondered if it were a slug gun - the barrel was a bit mucky to look down - couldn't see much.

[leadcounsel]

I just bought a used 870 Express hunting shotgun, in near perfect brand new 99% condition from a private owner. He was asking $150 and I got him down to $130. Wood stock, forearm, and longer barrel. Minor scratches on the stock made it less than 100%. Then I put a different free new wood stock on the gun and a magazine tube extension. Sold the stock with minor scratches for $35 profit. Now the gun is in perfect condition and has a 2 shot mag extenstion. Total price $110.

I've seen them often at gun stores for $200 used and in good condition. Pump shotguns are very reliable and durable. Just keep your eyes out in shops and for sale ads.

I'll email you a picture of the shotguns.

[leadcounsel]

Saw an ad today for Big 5. They have Mossberg pump 12 ga. with 2 barrels for $240.

[joab]

I have tried three remote switches

One was a straight wire that cost about $15
One was curly from the same company for the same price the other was a curly I bought for $5

All failed

for some reason they can't take recoil although one got caught on the safe door and quit working

I also bought a Panther Tac light for $20 at a gun show
The recoil from a 10/22 blew it out

In some cases you actually do get what you pay for. If you are going to light your guns get something capable of handling rough handling

[gordo b.]

"The local gun shop has a used Wingmaster 18" barrel with rifle sights (!??) - its only chambered for 2 3/4" shells though. Is that a problem? "


Sounds GREAT! 3" shells are a wet dream unless you are going to Alaska.

[Lee Lapin]

One more vote for 2 3/4" shells being plenty. Be sure that Wingmaster 18" RS barrel is a smoothbore and not rifled, I don't know if Remington was producing 2 3/4" chambered rifled barrels or not but for a defensive shotgun you are better off with a smoothbore IMO. It sounds like it might be an agency trade-in maybe, any rack numbers painted or stamped on the stock, or PD/SO initials stamped into the receiver? That price would be a bit on the high side locally, but prices vary from area to area. And older Police guns were just marked Wingmaster on the receiver, I have a couple that date from the late '60s or so that are actually Riot guns (20" bead sighted CYL bore barrels, the 18" barrels were Police guns).

Surface blemishes mean almost nothing on an 870, the internals almost never go wrong. Check the bore and make sure it's bright and shiny under the crud (can't believe the owner wouldn't have cleaned it before putting it out for sale- NOT!). If it compares favorably with prices on other used 870s in other stores nearby (don't overlook the pawn shops too) then give it some consideration for purchase- IF that bore is OK.

I bought a 1976 vintage Magnum Wingmaster several weeks ago for $150- in rough shape outside, badly freckled with surface rust from being left in a case untended, and filthy inside. But it was still a solid gun, and it cleaned up well. Right now it's sitting in the corner with an blued 18" Police barrel on it from the parts box, and the Wingmaster wood replaced by plain walnut Police gun wood, that also dates to the 1970s if that red rubber recoil pad is any indication.

lpl/nc