The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 21, 2016, 08:45 AM   #1
dieselbeef
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 2011
Location: myakka city fl
Posts: 312
357 semi not a sig rd

im looking for a semi auto that shoots the same rd as my revolver

not a Coonan or a des eagle

s/w..glock..sig...

haven't seen much out there..how bout some help

thanks
dieselbeef is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 09:05 AM   #2
TailGator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,786
The problem with your request is that you are ruling out the only two companies that I can think of that worked to overcome the problems of feeding the rimmed .357 magnum cartridge through a semi.

Maybe if you posted again and said what you disliked about the Coonan and DE products, someone more knowledgeable than I could help you out.
TailGator is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 09:10 AM   #3
dieselbeef
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 2011
Location: myakka city fl
Posts: 312
Haha mostly the price and size. I'm looking for a carry gun. Neither of them conducive to that. That's why o posted. I couldn't think of any others either. I do have options but none in semi auto 357 mag


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
dieselbeef is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 10:05 AM   #4
DubC-Hicks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2009
Location: Backwoods, Northern MI
Posts: 1,031
Any semi auto will need to be huge in size to handle the .357 Mag. The grip/magazine needs to be able to hold that long of a cartridge, and the frame/slide/barrel need to be strong enough to contain the pressure as well.

A Coonan is smaller than the DE, but still bigger than a normal 1911. Your best best may be a revolver. Possibly a LCR in .357 if you want easy to carry.
__________________
”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown
DubC-Hicks is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 10:26 AM   #5
Siggy-06
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,148
I think the smallest you're gonna get in a semi is the Coonan Compact. Just get yourself a smaller revolver for carry. LCR, Sp101, Model 60, ect...
Siggy-06 is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 11:04 AM   #6
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,675
Quote:
not a Coonan or a des eagle

s/w..glock..sig...

haven't seen much out there..how bout some help
There is none. Nothing in current production, anyway. At one time, you could get an LAR GRIZZLY in .357Mag, but it is long out of print...

THERE ARE NO COMPACT .357 semis in the same size as compact 9mms.

Quote:
A Coonan is smaller than the DE, but still bigger than a normal 1911.
Yes, bigger than a 1911, but not a lot. My Coonan Model A is 1/4" larger in length, height, and width than a standard Govt Model 1911A1.

1/4" in all directions. (yes, I've measured it). Not a lot, really.

I don't know the Coonan Compact model, but from the name I would expect it to be the size of a 1911 or smaller.

S&W, GLock, SIG, etc. have no interest in the market, you won't see any semi auto .357 Magnum from them, unless you personally pony up the cash for them to design and make one. (probably a few million)

Good Luck
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 11:08 AM   #7
NoSecondBest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 7, 2009
Location: Western New York
Posts: 2,736
You could always change and get a different revolver
NoSecondBest is offline  
Old July 22, 2016, 03:20 PM   #8
tallball
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2014
Posts: 2,444
Yeah, Grizzly is the only other one I could think of.

You are probably stuck with a revolver or a different caliber.
tallball is offline  
Old July 22, 2016, 03:31 PM   #9
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 7,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP
THERE ARE NO COMPACT .357 semis in the same size as compact 9mms.
...and this is the reason that the .357 SIG cartridge exists in the first place. Its purpose is to fit a round with the performance of a 110-125gr .357 Magnum bullet from a 3"-4" barrel into a nominally 9mm-size pistol, without the risks of using 9mm+P+.

The SIG round can't duplicate the performance of .357 Magnum from a 6" or longer barrel, but since the thread concerns small concealable firearms, it's not realistic to expect that level of performance anyway.
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak
carguychris is offline  
Old July 22, 2016, 03:36 PM   #10
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 11,755
Haha, want another .357 for carry given the impossible qualifications you seem to want? Okay... COP derringer.

You get .357 Mag, only 4 shots, one of the worst triggers you have ever met, slow reloads, a smallish kinda footprint that weighs more than a Hydramatic transmission AND as a special bonus, they are now "collectible" so the prices are ridiculous.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is offline  
Old July 22, 2016, 04:31 PM   #11
Chaz88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2010
Posts: 1,243
As already noted the Coonan is only slightly larger than a 1911. It can be concealed with about any method that would work for a full size 1911.

For an easily concealed carry option the .357, in an auto loader, is not very practical. Once you make it small enough for that you are getting into J frame capacity and a J frame is already great for concealing.

EDIT: But if you find one let me know. I will get one to keep next to my Coonan.
__________________
Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time.

No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.
Chaz88 is offline  
Old July 22, 2016, 05:29 PM   #12
DA/SA Fan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 30, 2014
Location: Missouri
Posts: 661
Find a S&W 610 and get a caliber matching 10mm auto.
__________________
"Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!"
CASTLE DOCTRINE STRONGLY ENFORCED
"Happiness is a warm gun"
DA/SA Fan is offline  
Old July 22, 2016, 06:27 PM   #13
Ruger45LC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 768
Not really helpful to the OP but I have been playing around with what I call the ".357" SIG (not standard 357 SIG exactly....). Basically I reload new Starline 357 SIG brass with actual .357" .357 Magnum bullets.

From 4.5" bbl (KKM in a Glock) I've ran:
125gr XTP @ 1,620 fps
140gr XTP @ 1,460 fps
158gr XTP @ 1,390 fps

I've ran some from a 6" KKM barrel too, adds roughly 100 fps but the point is this, the ".357" SIG is no joke! Can an actual 357 Mag do better? Sure, but for the record my fastest .357 Mag 158gr JHP from a 6.5" Ruger Blackhawk was running about 1,500 fps and I'm basically getting that with the 6" bbl Glock.

I've played around with warm .40's for years (10mm-level) so I figured it was time to see what the 357 SIG should have been (in other words, use actual .357" bullets not .355" 9mm bullets).

That is all.
Ruger45LC is offline  
Old July 25, 2016, 10:57 PM   #14
MagnumWill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2009
Location: Central Colorado
Posts: 1,001
You could always look into a Colt Combat Commander in .38 Super Automatic...
And yes, thanks to the semi-rim and essentially equivalent pressure... You can run it in your .357, depending on how happy it is at extracting a much smaller rim.

It's been done before, but typically discouraged because .38 Super is much more expensive than run-of-the-mill .357. But for your purpose, it would work and generate style points

/starts donning flame suit for recommending a largely unknown cartridge compatibility
__________________
Those who hammer their swords into plow shares will plow for those who didn't...
MagnumWill is offline  
Old July 26, 2016, 10:44 AM   #15
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,675
Quote:
/starts donning flame suit for recommending a largely unknown cartridge compatibility
According to my books, the .38 Super is 0.005" LARGER in case diameter than the .357 Magnum. Manufacturing tolerances being what they are, I'm sure some .38 Super will fit in some .357 chambers. So, I won't flame you for that.

However, shooting .38 Super in a .357 revolver has NOTHING to do with the OP of this thread, which is asking about .357 Magnum semiautos.

Never ceases to amaze me how people ask about semiautos, in the Semi-automatic FORUM, and get replies about revolvers.....
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 26, 2016, 11:35 AM   #16
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,453
"...only slightly larger than a 1911..." Not by much. The 'Compact' model runs about 2 lbs. 6.8 oz. vs the 2 pounds 6.0 oz. for a 1911. Bit longer in the grip.
Still runs $2,120.00 MSRP for the sexy black one. $1,674.00 for the SS.
Desert Eagles are just friggin' enormous. Weighs a tick over 3 pounds empty. $1,363.72 at Buds. You need hands like a monkey for a DE. Quite pleasant to shoot though.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old July 26, 2016, 11:56 AM   #17
dakota1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 2007
Location: The Great American Desert
Posts: 501
I think the Grizzley LAR used the rimless 9mm Winchester Magnum round.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9_mm_caliber
dakota1911 is offline  
Old July 26, 2016, 07:38 PM   #18
P71pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2014
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 728
Why not a .40S&W or 10mm auto?

I think the .40S&W is very similar to the .357magnum; the .40 pushes a 165gr projectile at about 1200fps in full power loads, which is very comparable to .357 out of a 4" barrel, and 180gr at 1100 with full power loads. Sure the .40 is slightly larger in diameter and thus doesnt have quite the SD of the revolver cartridge, but it is very compact and there are boatloads of pistols chambered for it to choose from. The ammunition is priced affordably, and can be loaded with 200gr hardcasts for woods duty or hollow points of many weights for human or rabid dog defense.

Then there is the 10mm auto, which is a beast of a rimless pistol round. Here are some semi-autos chambered in 10mm

Glock 20
Glock 40
Glock 29
Tanfoglio witness
Sig sauer P220
Many 1911 makers (rock island being cheapest @$600)
__________________
Without the 2nd amendment, all other rights would not exist
P71pilot is offline  
Old July 26, 2016, 07:39 PM   #19
WC145
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2008
Location: Downeast Maine
Posts: 1,836
The Grizzly was available in several calibers including .357mag, .50AE, .45 WinMag, 9mm WinMag, and probably a couple of others that don't come to mind right now. But, like the Coonan, it's much larger than a normal 1911.

If you want .357mag power in a 1911 from factory ammo look at the 9x23 Winchester. If you can't find one you can convert a 9mm or .38 Super by fitting a 9x23 Win barrel to it. I have a Colt .38 Super with 9mm and 9x23 Winchester barrels, factory Winchester 124gr & 125gr ammo run at 1450+fps out of a 5" barrel. Not too shabby from a regular size 1911 with 9 or 10rd mags. And, if you handload, you can really work up some smoking hot loads.

No, that doesn't solve your ammo compatibility desire but it's as close as you'll get performance wise, since your only .357mag auto choices are the DE, Coonan, and Grizzly thanks to the length of the .357mag cartridge.
__________________
"If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge or jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - LtCol Jeff Cooper
WC145 is offline  
Old July 27, 2016, 09:56 AM   #20
tallball
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2014
Posts: 2,444
Would 9mm largo work in a 357 revolver if you had some kind of "moon clips"?

If so, you could carry a Star or Astra semiautomatic and 357 revolver that used the same ammo.
tallball is offline  
Old July 27, 2016, 11:06 AM   #21
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 7,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallball
...9mm largo [with] some kind of "moon clips"... you could carry a Star or Astra semiautomatic and 357 revolver that used the same ammo.
Talk about an answer to a question absolutely no one is asking!
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak
carguychris is offline  
Old July 27, 2016, 11:08 AM   #22
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,675
Quote:
Desert Eagles are just friggin' enormous. Weighs a tick over 3 pounds empty. $1,363.72 at Buds. You need hands like a monkey for a DE. Quite pleasant to shoot though.
Desert Eagles are huge. And heavier than you think, 4.25lbs EMPTY. (a bit more than a tick over 3lbs )

I wear a size 9 glove, and manage well enough. You don't need hands like a monkey, but if you have hooves instead of hands, you will have issues.

Quote:
The Grizzly was available in several calibers including .357mag, .50AE, .45 WinMag, 9mm WinMag, and probably a couple of others that don't come to mind right now. But, like the Coonan, it's much larger than a normal 1911.
Other calibers the Grizzly came in were .44 Rem Mag (the standard revolver round) and .357 GWM (Grizzly Win mag), a .45 Win mag case necked down to .357.

Again, I will disagree that the Coonan (or at least the Model A that I have) is "much larger" than a normal 1911A1. I have measured them. My Coonan is 1/4" longer, 1/4" taller, and 1/4" wider than the standard Colt Government model 1911A1. TO me, that is NOT "much larger".

The Grizzly is considerably larger than the Coonan, and the Desert Eagle is larger than the Grizzly. And yes, I have one of each, and have compared them in reality, not just from book specs.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 27, 2016, 11:10 AM   #23
Oysterboy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 970
Glock G29 with a 9x25 Dillon barrel.
Oysterboy is offline  
Old July 27, 2016, 11:24 AM   #24
Independent George
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2013
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
Never ceases to amaze me how people ask about semiautos, in the Semi-automatic FORUM, and get replies about revolvers.....
To be fair, the OP is asking about a unicorn, so it seems perfectly valid to respond about horses as the next closest thing.
Independent George is offline  
Old July 27, 2016, 12:03 PM   #25
mrt949
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 16, 2008
Posts: 1,692
AUTOMAG..357
__________________
No Gun Big Or Small Does It All
mrt949 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.12116 seconds with 10 queries