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Old November 10, 2009, 11:31 PM   #26
Ignition Override
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Ammo is the first priority for some of us, and order it immediately after we decide which rifle type.
The most available - by far - always seems to be 7.62x54R for the MNs.

Have only tried a limited number of types, but for me the Lee Enfield #5 "Jungle Carbine" is the favorite, and the standard (WW2) #4 is a very close second.
I ordered the ammo from Samco last April (all sold out) before ordering a specific rifle, because tons of good rifles are around, but ammo is getting scarce.

If you decide on an 8mm Mauser, there are sellers on gun sites who now sell it for about .30/round. Buy some very quickly.
A guy at "THR" is trying to sell a heap in Austin for .25/round.

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Old November 13, 2009, 09:40 PM   #27
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M1 Garand
M1903A3
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Old November 13, 2009, 10:03 PM   #28
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Enfield and Mauser K98
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Old November 13, 2009, 10:03 PM   #29
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best bang for buck - Mosin Nagant

Best all around available - M1 Garand - due to history

hard to find- FN-49

Mausers for accuracy.
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Old November 14, 2009, 12:25 AM   #30
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Several days ago, Another (second) guy listed his 800 rds, of 8mm ammo for .25/round.
If I decided on a first or second Mauser, would buy this ammo NOW .

If not on this "For Sale" board, both sellers were at either 'THR', 'Firearmstalk' 'Firearmsforum' or 'Gunandgame' "For Sale, Trade" etc.

Last edited by Ignition Override; November 16, 2009 at 01:25 AM.
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Old November 14, 2009, 12:29 AM   #31
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Quote:
Several days ago, Another (second) guy listed his 800 rds, of 8mm ammo for .25/round.
If somebody really likes theirs, or wants their first Mauser, I would buy this ammo NOW.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM857-5.html

I don't know how much they have, but this ammo is accurate for surplus and it's @ .27/round. I bought a spam can of it and I'm fairly happy. Probably 1 in 10 doesn't fire the first strike, but always fires the second strike. It's a tad picky, but accurate and cheap. There are other places to find surplus 8mm for roughly the same price, so it hasn't all dried up yet.



To keep true to the thread topic...
I'm very budget minded. For economical bang for buck, you can't go wrong with Mosins or Yugo Mausers. Both rifles are cheap to buy and cheap to feed, though the 8mm ammo may not be around forever. I don't see the 7.62r for cheap going away in the near future.
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Old November 15, 2009, 09:44 AM   #32
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What does 'the best' mean?

Best design? Best shooter? Best loved? Best economical value? Best firepower? Best impact for its day?"

Bolt actions have potential to eclipse semis in accuracy and are in general stronger

In terms of design, I vote for the M1 rifle. If you ask me, the bolt design on the AK47 is similar enough to make me wonder. I recently heard 'negative' aspects of the M1 such as 'the "gun oil" on the M1 used in the battle of the bulge made the riflers freeze up in low temperature'. Any rifle using that "gun oil' then, logically had the same failures, so I discount the entire episode.
Also many rifles were fine designs for their time, and some, like the StG 44 transcended their era. The M1 did also. But I've never seen any 'milsurp sales' include an StG 44 so my vote here goes to the M1

Accuracy- the M1 was and is good in terms of accuracy; Very effective sniper's models were made from it. The same is true of the Mosin nagant, LE, K98, etc, so the M1 loses no footing there. But the M1 is also semi-auto, which gives it the edge when used in other roles different from sniping, so my vote goes to the M1 for its additional usefulness

Each rifle was loved by its users; that's strictly preference, so this is a wash

Best economical value? The M1 was costly compared to a bolt action no doubt. Other rifles that had been in use for a long time (K98, LE, Mosin Nagant) must have been a better value for their country in terms of dollars per fighting man equipped. Today M1 rifles are relatively expensive. So I give the edge to the Mosin nagant here

Some bolt actions had more rounds than the M1, and the US used a rifle with more capacity using the same round (BAR) as the M1 so firepower is an argument. However the BAR was not the basic infantry rifle, and the M1 loses out by only a few rounds compared to the ten round bolt actions. The semi-auto rifle is inherently quicker to fire than a bolt action, so I call that one a toss-up

Best impact? For me, the M1 is my choice. It was used through Korea to the beginning of Vietnam. My opinion is that it may have influenced the AK47 design as well. But in terms of contemporary impact- the USA was the first nation to equip its soldiers with a semi-auto rifle as a standard infantry weapon and that was with the M1. That is quite an impact on the battlefield

I vote M1 rifle
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Old November 15, 2009, 09:16 PM   #33
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My favprote to shoot by far is an '03 Springfield star barrel. It was equiped with a peepsight at the rear of the reciever and still shoots sub MOA groups after God only knows how many rounds. I shot my first deer with it at 7 years old 26 years ago. It has been the death of many of deer, and hog since.
Most economical is my 91/30. I bought it yesterday at a gunshow. Took it out and shot it at the range. I was shooting it at 100 yards at a B27 silloute target at 100 yards. I did add a Buttler Creek slip on recoil pad, to reduce recoil, but the main reason was to add lenght to the stock to accomidate my long arms. No shots were outside of the 8 ring so it performed admirably with the 10 rounds that I shot out of it. I did end up spending a few hours decosmolining it. Now the bolt is butter smooth and it cycles rounds with no problems, I will fire it some more in the future when time, weather, and most importantly finances allow.
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Old November 16, 2009, 09:14 AM   #34
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Bolt actions have potential to eclipse semis in accuracy and are in general stronger
I've heard this several times now, and have decided to finally throw out the red review flag. Why is a bolt-action rifle inherently more accurate than a semi-auto? As I see it, it's more the type of rifle (carbine, short-range, etc.) and caliber that each employ, rather than the actual action itself determining accuracy. Once the round is chambered, how does the action used to chamber the round have any impact on accuracy?

The 'stronger' part I'll accept because of the semi's moving bolt versus a manual bolt having multiple locking lugs.
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Old November 16, 2009, 02:24 PM   #35
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Most beginners in old surplus rifles buy either what suits their fantasy or their wallet.

The simple fact is this; nearly every type of milsurp ammo is gone.

If you want a good milsurp (and they are all good but some might suit your taste better) rifle and you want to shoot it for 10-20-30-40-50 years check what ammo can be bought in quantity now and buy the rifle that suits the ammo. Buy one rifle and spend every dime on all the ammo you can buy.
Now, i am serious, no joke here. Buy 10,000 rounds buy 20K or more if you can

A can of Ballistol diluted can clean a case of corrosive fired primers or just as good a pan of boiling hot water down the bore followed with regular oil cleaners and you will have a sturdy easy to care for reasonably accurate rifle that will out live you.

IMO, the 98 Mauser action is the strongest and one can find sealed cases of the Yugo 1950's 8MM ammo at a now reasonable price of $250.00 to $300.00 for 900 rounds.
Note, Yugo 50's have are case failures which do nothing to a 98 action but can be serious to a semi auto 8MM like a Hakim, FN49 or G/K43.
I have had a couple such failures in 98 action Mausers and you know it occurred because the smoke vents back through the bolt but doesn't even affect the shot placement.
This ammo sometimes requires changing the firing pin spring (In German K98ks not Yugo 98 guns) because of the extra hard MG primer, easily done and about $10.00 for a Wolff Blitzschnell 22pound spring.

The gun with the most ammo available right now is the Nagant a decent albeit mediocre rifle, yes, but with a good bore that 29 inch barrel is almost always very accurate (The Finnish re-barreled with Tikka or Sako barrels are very impressive)
The 38 and 44 kick, a good butt pad is ideal for those
The best ammo (aside from the Russian sniper ammo, all gone now) is the Czech 147gr silver tip. Again, buy the rifle you can find a large amount of ammo for.

Do not, I repeat, do not buy a rifle and a box of ammo and assume you will always be able to get ammo.
There is not only little available but one must consider ammo importation being banned as a possibility.

Some of the nicest rifles for smoothness and accuracy are the 6.5 Swede Mauser and some of the South American 7X57, 7MM Mauser (check bores many are bad a good one is very accurate)
In both cases ammo is all but gone and you will pay a buck a round or more to shoot them with commercial ammo.
The excellent 1909 Argentine was mentioned and it is nice but 7.65X53 ammo is not available although Privi Partisan is importing some as commercial re-loadable ammo.
The Swiss rifles are nice but the ammo very expensive and harder to find likely soon gone

Classic Arms has some Yugo 24/47 98 Mausers at a decent price and Wideners has Yugo 1950's ammo in 900 round sealed cases.
Buy a 24/47 and 3 cases and you should be near $1,000.00 with 2700 rounds of sure fire take any game go through any armor ammo that will last longer than you will live.


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Old November 16, 2009, 02:38 PM   #36
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I can't recall when MILSURP mail order was banned (mid 60's?) but either a M1 carbine or a 1911 A1 could be had for around $17, in excellent or good condition, some still in grease and the government cardboard boxes. Those were the days.
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Old November 16, 2009, 05:26 PM   #37
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best

The old critique about WWI rifles - the Mauser, the Lee Enfield and the Springfield 1903 was that the Germans made the best hunting rifle, the Americans made the best target rifle and the British made the best battle rifle.
I concur. It really depends on the use.
In any case, some fine firearms were left out of that consideration. The Russian Mosin has only recently been "discovered" by many shooters; it's a great shooter. The Swiss K31 - neutrality kept it away from the war zone - probably a good thing for anyone who'd have been on the receiving end.
Wasn't George Patton's comment about the M1 that it was the best battle implement ever devised?
My own choice was and is the Springfield 1903. It was the rifle that I shot my first MOA group with. That old ladder sight...love it.
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Old November 16, 2009, 05:44 PM   #38
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M-44, spanish mauser in .308
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Old November 16, 2009, 09:05 PM   #39
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Quote:
when MILSURP mail order was banned (mid 60's?)
Right after JFK was shot with a mail order rifle.
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Old November 17, 2009, 12:05 AM   #40
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I've had no problem getting ammo for my Kar98; in fact, Remington still makes hunting ammo for it. Plenty accurate and a nice, big fat round.
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Old November 17, 2009, 02:58 AM   #41
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I'll take a Yugo SKS for general purpose and a K31 for distance.
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Old November 17, 2009, 07:12 PM   #42
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Quote:
I've heard this several times now, and have decided to finally throw out the red review flag. Why is a bolt-action rifle inherently more accurate than a semi-auto? As I see it, it's more the type of rifle (carbine, short-range, etc.) and caliber that each employ, rather than the actual action itself determining accuracy. Once the round is chambered, how does the action used to chamber the round have any impact on accuracy?

The 'stronger' part I'll accept because of the semi's moving bolt versus a manual bolt having multiple locking lugs.
Pardon me, but I said it has the potential.
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Old November 17, 2009, 07:28 PM   #43
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Quote:
Right after JFK was shot with a mail order rifle.
Pete
Oh yeah, speaking of the Mannlicher Carcano rifle: Has to be one of the most underrated milsurp rifles, right after Arisaka rifles.
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Old November 17, 2009, 08:45 PM   #44
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You are so right many people think the carcano is junk but I know better the main problem is almost nobody makes ammo right for it any more, the bullets loaded in factory rounds for the carcano are usually .264 of an inch but the carcano bore is .268 to .269 of an inch that means the bullet they load are 4 or 5 hundreth's to small no wonder they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn
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Old November 17, 2009, 09:02 PM   #45
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That's a matter of opinion, so mine is that a Mauser 98k in usable condition is the best.
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Old November 18, 2009, 08:45 AM   #46
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Pardon me, but I said it has the potential.
I wasn't challenging you as much as I was asking the the whole forum - I've heard it several times here and was curious.
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Old November 19, 2009, 07:50 AM   #47
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I always heard that the Finnish mosin nagants were the best. I just found an awesome deal on one and pounced. Its an m39 and its a real sweet shooter.
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Old November 21, 2009, 01:24 AM   #48
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Best milsurp rifle

I guess I might as well chime in with my favorite. The swedish mauser is a nice rifle in a great caliber. The moisen nagant is just about as GI proof as you can get. The finns are upgraded MN's.Mausers in general are great guns. I own 20 of them, and don't have a german made one yet.K31's are a piece of art. If youcan find one in good shape, that is in your range, grab it and hold on. The rifle that went for $100 a year ago is $250/300 now.Just do a lot of research ,and then buy the best rifle you can afford.
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Old November 21, 2009, 01:25 AM   #49
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Best milsurp rifle

I guess I might as well chime in with my favorite. The swedish mauser is a nice rifle in a great caliber. The moisen nagant is just about as GI proof as you can get. The finns are upgraded MN's.Mausers in general are great guns. I own 20 of them, and don't have a german made one yet.K31's are a piece of art. If you can find one in good shape, that is in your range, grab it and hold on. The rifle that went for $100 a year ago is $250/300 now.Just do a lot of research ,and then buy the best rifle you can afford.
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Old November 21, 2009, 08:46 AM   #50
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The M39 I just found in the dusty bargain rack was $150 out the door with ammo! I looked online, and the same model and year and condition seem to sell for 300 and up, so I was glad I knew enough about the Finn model to snatch it up. I have an M44, and it's ok, but the M39 is now my favorite.
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