Was denied today

Stuohn · April 9, 2009, 09:56 PM

On my way to the Range today and I noticed that the local skeet/trap club was open and pretty crowded. So I go in and ask the guy at the counter prices and then ask if there are any barrel length requirements. The guy says no. So then I explain that its an 18" barrel pump shotgun. The guy says he doesn't have a problem with it. Another guy (don't know if he worked there or not) states "I think some of the guys out there will have a problem". I then explained that I have shot skeet before with same gun so I can handle funny looks from others. So the second guy asks the first guy what if the ejected shells hit someone? So first guy tells me maybe you should get a longer barrel. (not sure how a longer barrel changes the path of an ejected shell)

. So I figured screw it their range their rules said O.K. and left. Sucks though cause I like to shoot skeet with the 18" barrel (challenge) and can't find another range. Oh well just have to shoot at paper.

kwells6 · April 9, 2009, 10:06 PM

thats outrageous! I personally would go to the Range Master/President

USMCGrunt · April 9, 2009, 10:34 PM

Let me guess, some Fudd is biggoted against anything that looks like some sort of EEEEEEEEEEVIL sawed-off shotgun. Never mind that 18" barrels are perfectly legal and that changing the barrel to a longer one will do NOTHING to change the ejection pattern of any spent hull....it's just that it looks EEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL and has no place in their sport of "gentlemen."

Now I'm not bashing the sport (although trap and skeet are a couple sports I haven't tried...something I guess I am going to have to remedy when I get back to the world) nor am I bashing those that prefer to use dedicated trap or skeet guns designed for that sport. What I WILL bash however is the biggoted mentality of the Fudd community that would gladly throw another segment of the shooting society to the liberal wolves if it means they get to keep their guns for just one more day!

johnwilliamson062 · April 9, 2009, 11:00 PM

I use the same 11-87 for trap, HD, and deer hunting. SOmetimes I don't switch all the accessories in between roles, so I end up with extra shell holders filled with 00buck or a camo sling on it when I go to shoot trap. Get quite a few looks.

YOu realize if you work the pump slow it will roll out the ejection port, right?

zippy13 · April 9, 2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuohn

...So I go in and ask the guy at the counter prices and then ask if there are any barrel length requirements. The guy says no. So then I explain that its an 18" barrel pump shotgun...

Perhaps you should have accepted his "no" as being unqualified and just signed-up for the next available squad.

RoscoeC · April 9, 2009, 11:29 PM

The club where I shoot has a clearly posted minimum barrel length of 22". If the place didn't have the restriction clearly posted I would have proceeded on.

You're right, their place, their rules, but if those rules aren't clear, then they need to let you go with your short barrel.

Another club where I shoot has no restrictions. I have often shot there with my 20" barreled 870.

I would ask for a formal ruling from management. It sounds to me like you just ran into a cranky old goober with a personal prejudice.

freakintoguns · April 10, 2009, 03:28 AM

theres a appropiate gun for shooting baked clay? jeez, me and my buddies use everything from shotgunsd to .22s to shoot clays out of the sky. makes for fun times when out plinking.

TMackey · April 10, 2009, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Thank goodness I don't have to deal with you and your "buddies" when I shoot clay targets.The reason is the rules at the ranges I shoot at.If you do not agree with the rules go somewhere else with your tactical self and go for the "challenge".

WOW.

Jofaba · April 10, 2009, 07:05 AM

Hmm, I've never even thought about the length of my shotgun before. I have a Benelli SuperNova pump and apparently it's 18.4 inches. Is the restriction based on spread, and thus negating skill? Kind of makes sense...

Guess I'll be looking to get a longer barreled shotgun. I haven't gotten into the actual sport of skeet or trap, but I have a foot-activated launcher and have gotten quite good at it, with my Benelli.

I got the launcher to practice solo before ever joining in on any of the parties that take place at the range. I was really bad at first, getting around 5%, have since gone up to 90+ on singles, 50+ on doubles.

Now that I'm actually decent, it'd be terribly embarassing to be turned away. It's tough enough seeing as the parties consist of mostly older guys with very traditional shotguns.

Glad to see this post, I'll be sure to check with the rules before I show up and find myself slinking off, head down, shotgun in hand unfired.

**Mike Irwin** · April 10, 2009, 07:24 AM

I've run into that before. I took living hell from some old guy at a club once for shooting my 12 gauge cruiser on the skeet range. Did very well with it.

I used the same gun a few years ago when shooting a couple of rounds of 5 stand with Dave (moderator here), and also did fairly well.

Unfortunately, not long after, the place where I shoot adopted the 22" barrel rule.

jr05 · April 10, 2009, 07:48 AM

What type of barrel was the 18"? Was it choked or a cylindrical bore?

I personally have no issue with an 18" choked barrel, but if it is a cylindrical bore it does not belong on the trap/skeet fields. Other people may chime in about muzzle blast and noise which are also probably valid. I would have asked somebody with a little more knowledge at the club before giving up though.

Quote:

theres a appropiate gun for shooting baked clay? jeez, me and my buddies use everything from shotgunsd to .22s to shoot clays out of the sky. makes for fun times when out plinking.

Yes, .22s are NOT a gun to be shooting clays out of the sky with! On the ground...that is a different matter. Shooting flying clays with a .22lr is completely stupid. There are areas where it MAY be acceptable if there are MILES AND MILES between you and anything, but for the average person, shooting .22lr basically just into the air is NOT a smart choice.

Dingoboyx · April 10, 2009, 07:49 AM

Yeah mate, all guns are good to blast clays, I have move up on the mound behind the launcher and shot clays with my rossi SbS hammered coach gun and blasted a few

Have also gone after clays with my vaquaro, got a couple too

Our range has a high mound and a high hill behind as a backstop so we are actually shooting low into the sky rather than high in the air

Stuohn, I would have stayed and shot, I would have asked for the far right hand spot, so my hulls were ejecting into no mans land (not at the guy on the right, coz there isnt one) IMO, if the guy at the range said "no probs" that is the only opinion that would count

I have seen some of the fudds at my local trap range with their high-falootin' you beaut shotties that eject so violently they nearly hit people (with the hulls) 10' behind them.

I agree it would be annoying to keep having to dodge the guy on your left's hulls as you are readying to call, thats why I say get the right hand most position which eliminates that particular problem. If the others rotate, just ask if you can stay on the far right

wyobohunter · April 10, 2009, 07:55 AM

I think you may have approached the whole thing wrong. If you hadn't even mentioned it and just went shooting you may have gotten along just fine with the "Fudds". Sometimes things are only an issue because we expect them to be.

zippy13 · April 10, 2009, 10:06 AM

^ Yep. The OP missed a golden opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

**Mike Irwin** · April 10, 2009, 11:03 AM

"I personally have no issue with an 18" choked barrel, but if it is a cylindrical bore it does not belong on the trap/skeet fields."

I have to ask just why not?

A shotgun is a shotgun, no matter what bore constriction it has. I've done very well on skeet with my 18" barreled S&W and equally well on skeet with my Remington 58 with a 26" barrel with the polychoke set, at various times, to cylinder, improved cylinder, and modified.

zxcvbob · April 10, 2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

everything from shotgunsd to .22s to shoot clays out of the sky.

So what was your backstop when you were shooting the .22 up in the air?

Dingoboyx · April 10, 2009, 12:52 PM

The clouds

rjrivero · April 10, 2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr05

What type of barrel was the 18"? Was it choked or a cylindrical bore?

I personally have no issue with an 18" choked barrel, but if it is a cylindrical bore it does not belong on the trap/skeet fields. Other people may chime in about muzzle blast and noise which are also probably valid. I would have asked somebody with a little more knowledge at the club before giving up though.

I don't give that argument any validity. A ported Sporting Clays Over/Under makes a hell of a racket. I have a tactical Benelli M1 with an 18" barrel and every now and again I take it out for clays killing. It's important to train with a weapon you use for defense. You need to be able to get it on target quickly and reliably. I argue that you NEED to shoot these Tactical Shotguns on a regular basis to develop the muscle memory.

Getting an 18" barreled shotgun on the birds at a Trap Field is not an easy task.

haiyter · April 10, 2009, 04:16 PM

if there is no barrel length requirement, i dont see why you would ask in the beginning. You should have just went in and said yours is a 20 inch or some b.s lol

Dave McC · April 10, 2009, 09:38 PM

As some of you know, my home range has a 23" minimum barrel length rule that causeth my BP to rise.

The official reason is noise, but a 21" turkey barrel is quieter than most ported 30" O/Us. And very much quieter than a shotgun equipped with the old Cutts Compensator.

And, like other epithets, "Fudd" is not welcome here.

And Mike, we need to shoot together again.

chris in va · April 10, 2009, 10:00 PM

The Bull Run Shooting Center in N. Va disallowed short barrel shotguns a couple years ago after too many sweeps and ND's. I think their rule now is a minimum of 24".

Quote:

So what was your backstop when you were shooting the .22 up in the air?

C'mon, everyone knows the bullet stops at the target!

sailskidrive · April 10, 2009, 10:47 PM

The Prince George's County Trap and Skeet facility here in MD also has a barrel length minimum, it's either 20" or 22". The last time I shot there the guy at the counter asked me what kind of guns we were using.

I think it's a safety issue dictated by their insurance. Anyway, with the seriousness and general high quality of the guns at the facility, I would be embarrassed as hell to take my 590A1 pump on the green or through the course...

~Sail

USMCGrunt · April 10, 2009, 11:45 PM

Quote:

The Bull Run Shooting Center in N. Va disallowed short barrel shotguns a couple years ago after too many sweeps and ND's. I think their rule now is a minimum of 24".

And 5 1/2" more barrel is a solution to this problem?

Claims of insurance requirements? I'm not from Missouri but you'd have to show me that in the policy before I buy that story. No, I think the simple answer is the correct one in that biggoted Fudds just don't like certain segments of the shooting community.

Dingoboyx · April 11, 2009, 05:23 AM

I get off on all shooting sports, not a 'die hard' fan of any one particular branch of the sport. I used to wonder why the serious skeeters hated to see any gun on the line that wasn't 'up to standard'

A few monts back, the president of my black powder club and a couple of our members went to a Wednesday evening trap shooting club at our range complex, Steve (the Bp pres.) took an O&U field gun, I took my Rossi hammer coach gun, we had a blast (literally)

Steve was knocking down 18 out of 20, I didnt shoot in the comp, I just had a shot after the comp finished, (got 11 out of 20 (from closer to the thrower)

Later we heard some others weren't impressed, not just that Steve beat alot of them with his $300 field gun, but the Skeeter president explained quit simply...... These guys only shoot trap, they buy expensive, skeet orientated guns, have them tricked up & fitted and are serious about the comps. Outsiders bringing other guns, like steves field gun, is annoying, like if you turned up at a formular 1 race and entered a hotted up gremlin or something (purely as an example) or entered a hotted up family station wagon in the Busch series at Indy. Ok the car might be quick, but it isn't the done thing. There is no place for that car (gun) in the race (comp) I can see now, It would be prudent to shoot our fun stuff before or after (or another day) the club nite comp that the serious dudes have lived all week in wait for the nite's comp.

Thanks for this thread, Stuohn, sort of made me think

and I for one will be giving the shottie dudes a bit more respect from now on

Perhaps, Stuohn, you did make the right decision to leave after all, perhaps it would be better for you to ask the club if they have a practic/open day when you and others can bring non-conforming guns and do some clay clobbering, or even ask if you can even organise a separate day for this 'blasphemic act'?

Shame it ruined your day tho, mate, it's awful leaving any range disapointed

johnbt · April 11, 2009, 06:37 AM

"A ported Sporting Clays Over/Under makes a hell of a racket."

They should be banned too.

"WHAT? WHAT'D YOU SAY? I CAN'T HEAR YOU."

April 9, 2009, 09:56 PM	#1
Stuohn Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2009 Location: Back Home in Baytown, TX Posts: 139	Was denied today On my way to the Range today and I noticed that the local skeet/trap club was open and pretty crowded. So I go in and ask the guy at the counter prices and then ask if there are any barrel length requirements. The guy says no. So then I explain that its an 18" barrel pump shotgun. The guy says he doesn't have a problem with it. Another guy (don't know if he worked there or not) states "I think some of the guys out there will have a problem". I then explained that I have shot skeet before with same gun so I can handle funny looks from others. So the second guy asks the first guy what if the ejected shells hit someone? So first guy tells me maybe you should get a longer barrel. (not sure how a longer barrel changes the path of an ejected shell). So I figured screw it their range their rules said O.K. and left. Sucks though cause I like to shoot skeet with the 18" barrel (challenge) and can't find another range. Oh well just have to shoot at paper.

April 9, 2009, 10:06 PM	#2
kwells6 Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 437	thats outrageous! I personally would go to the Range Master/President __________________ "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."

April 9, 2009, 11:29 PM	#6
RoscoeC Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2006 Location: DFW Metromess Posts: 562	The club where I shoot has a clearly posted minimum barrel length of 22". If the place didn't have the restriction clearly posted I would have proceeded on. You're right, their place, their rules, but if those rules aren't clear, then they need to let you go with your short barrel. Another club where I shoot has no restrictions. I have often shot there with my 20" barreled 870. I would ask for a formal ruling from management. It sounds to me like you just ran into a cranky old goober with a personal prejudice. __________________ “Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." --Helen Keller "Do not cry havoc when you should but hunt with modest warrant." --William Shakespeare Glock Certified Armorer NRA Life Member

April 10, 2009, 07:24 AM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	I've run into that before. I took living hell from some old guy at a club once for shooting my 12 gauge cruiser on the skeet range. Did very well with it. I used the same gun a few years ago when shooting a couple of rounds of 5 stand with Dave (moderator here), and also did fairly well. Unfortunately, not long after, the place where I shoot adopted the 22" barrel rule. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 10, 2009, 07:49 AM	#12
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	Freakin' Yeah mate, all guns are good to blast clays, I have move up on the mound behind the launcher and shot clays with my rossi SbS hammered coach gun and blasted a few Have also gone after clays with my vaquaro, got a couple too Our range has a high mound and a high hill behind as a backstop so we are actually shooting low into the sky rather than high in the air Stuohn, I would have stayed and shot, I would have asked for the far right hand spot, so my hulls were ejecting into no mans land (not at the guy on the right, coz there isnt one) IMO, if the guy at the range said "no probs" that is the only opinion that would count I have seen some of the fudds at my local trap range with their high-falootin' you beaut shotties that eject so violently they nearly hit people (with the hulls) 10' behind them. I agree it would be annoying to keep having to dodge the guy on your left's hulls as you are readying to call, thats why I say get the right hand most position which eliminates that particular problem. If the others rotate, just ask if you can stay on the far right __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

April 9, 2009, 10:34 PM	#3
USMCGrunt Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2000 Location: Somewhere in 14T NT Posts: 730	Let me guess, some Fudd is biggoted against anything that looks like some sort of EEEEEEEEEEVIL sawed-off shotgun. Never mind that 18" barrels are perfectly legal and that changing the barrel to a longer one will do NOTHING to change the ejection pattern of any spent hull....it's just that it looks EEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL and has no place in their sport of "gentlemen." Now I'm not bashing the sport (although trap and skeet are a couple sports I haven't tried...something I guess I am going to have to remedy when I get back to the world) nor am I bashing those that prefer to use dedicated trap or skeet guns designed for that sport. What I WILL bash however is the biggoted mentality of the Fudd community that would gladly throw another segment of the shooting society to the liberal wolves if it means they get to keep their guns for just one more day!

April 9, 2009, 11:00 PM	#4
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I use the same 11-87 for trap, HD, and deer hunting. SOmetimes I don't switch all the accessories in between roles, so I end up with extra shell holders filled with 00buck or a camo sling on it when I go to shoot trap. Get quite a few looks. YOu realize if you work the pump slow it will roll out the ejection port, right?

April 10, 2009, 03:28 AM	#7
freakintoguns Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2008 Posts: 496	theres a appropiate gun for shooting baked clay? jeez, me and my buddies use everything from shotgunsd to .22s to shoot clays out of the sky. makes for fun times when out plinking.

April 10, 2009, 07:05 AM	#9
Jofaba Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2009 Posts: 322	Hmm, I've never even thought about the length of my shotgun before. I have a Benelli SuperNova pump and apparently it's 18.4 inches. Is the restriction based on spread, and thus negating skill? Kind of makes sense... Guess I'll be looking to get a longer barreled shotgun. I haven't gotten into the actual sport of skeet or trap, but I have a foot-activated launcher and have gotten quite good at it, with my Benelli. I got the launcher to practice solo before ever joining in on any of the parties that take place at the range. I was really bad at first, getting around 5%, have since gone up to 90+ on singles, 50+ on doubles. Now that I'm actually decent, it'd be terribly embarassing to be turned away. It's tough enough seeing as the parties consist of mostly older guys with very traditional shotguns. Glad to see this post, I'll be sure to check with the rules before I show up and find myself slinking off, head down, shotgun in hand unfired.

April 10, 2009, 07:55 AM	#13
wyobohunter Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Location: Back in Wyoming Posts: 1,125	I think you may have approached the whole thing wrong. If you hadn't even mentioned it and just went shooting you may have gotten along just fine with the "Fudds". Sometimes things are only an issue because we expect them to be.

April 10, 2009, 10:06 AM	#14
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	^ Yep. The OP missed a golden opportunity to keep his mouth shut.

April 10, 2009, 11:03 AM	#15
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	"I personally have no issue with an 18" choked barrel, but if it is a cylindrical bore it does not belong on the trap/skeet fields." I have to ask just why not? A shotgun is a shotgun, no matter what bore constriction it has. I've done very well on skeet with my 18" barreled S&W and equally well on skeet with my Remington 58 with a 26" barrel with the polychoke set, at various times, to cylinder, improved cylinder, and modified. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 10, 2009, 12:52 PM	#17
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	I Know..... The clouds __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

April 10, 2009, 04:16 PM	#19
haiyter Member Join Date: August 30, 2007 Posts: 23	if there is no barrel length requirement, i dont see why you would ask in the beginning. You should have just went in and said yours is a 20 inch or some b.s lol

April 10, 2009, 09:38 PM	#20
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	As some of you know, my home range has a 23" minimum barrel length rule that causeth my BP to rise. The official reason is noise, but a 21" turkey barrel is quieter than most ported 30" O/Us. And very much quieter than a shotgun equipped with the old Cutts Compensator. And, like other epithets, "Fudd" is not welcome here. And Mike, we need to shoot together again.

April 10, 2009, 10:47 PM	#22
sailskidrive Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2008 Posts: 726	county skeet... The Prince George's County Trap and Skeet facility here in MD also has a barrel length minimum, it's either 20" or 22". The last time I shot there the guy at the counter asked me what kind of guns we were using. I think it's a safety issue dictated by their insurance. Anyway, with the seriousness and general high quality of the guns at the facility, I would be embarrassed as hell to take my 590A1 pump on the green or through the course... ~Sail

April 11, 2009, 05:23 AM	#24
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	Actually, I understand the reasoning..... I get off on all shooting sports, not a 'die hard' fan of any one particular branch of the sport. I used to wonder why the serious skeeters hated to see any gun on the line that wasn't 'up to standard' A few monts back, the president of my black powder club and a couple of our members went to a Wednesday evening trap shooting club at our range complex, Steve (the Bp pres.) took an O&U field gun, I took my Rossi hammer coach gun, we had a blast (literally) Steve was knocking down 18 out of 20, I didnt shoot in the comp, I just had a shot after the comp finished, (got 11 out of 20 (from closer to the thrower) Later we heard some others weren't impressed, not just that Steve beat alot of them with his $300 field gun, but the Skeeter president explained quit simply...... These guys only shoot trap, they buy expensive, skeet orientated guns, have them tricked up & fitted and are serious about the comps. Outsiders bringing other guns, like steves field gun, is annoying, like if you turned up at a formular 1 race and entered a hotted up gremlin or something (purely as an example) or entered a hotted up family station wagon in the Busch series at Indy. Ok the car might be quick, but it isn't the done thing. There is no place for that car (gun) in the race (comp) I can see now, It would be prudent to shoot our fun stuff before or after (or another day) the club nite comp that the serious dudes have lived all week in wait for the nite's comp. Thanks for this thread, Stuohn, sort of made me think and I for one will be giving the shottie dudes a bit more respect from now on Perhaps, Stuohn, you did make the right decision to leave after all, perhaps it would be better for you to ask the club if they have a practic/open day when you and others can bring non-conforming guns and do some clay clobbering, or even ask if you can even organise a separate day for this 'blasphemic act'? Shame it ruined your day tho, mate, it's awful leaving any range disapointed __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

April 11, 2009, 06:37 AM	#25
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	"A ported Sporting Clays Over/Under makes a hell of a racket." They should be banned too. "WHAT? WHAT'D YOU SAY? I CAN'T HEAR YOU."