Two questions

chris in va · March 16, 2005, 01:33 AM

First, what is the best thing to do if say...a guy approaches you on the street with his hands in his pockets and you try to veer out of his path, but he still heads toward you in a not-so-friendly manner? I'm not referring necessarily to firearms defense.

Second, I'm moving to a lower crime area where people are a lot nicer. Should I still carry all the time?

BillCA · March 16, 2005, 05:07 AM

Quote:

First, what is the best thing to do if say...a guy approaches you on the street with his hands in his pockets and you try to veer out of his path, but he still heads toward you in a not-so-friendly manner? I'm not referring necessarily to firearms defense.

Do the same thing you would do if you were unarmed.
This is a good scenario to point out why you should carry at least a small can of OC pepper spray. It gives you an intermediate level of force before resorting to your sidearm.

1. For anyone near you, watch his hands. If you can't see his hands (and what's in them) be very alert.
2. If someone heads towards you, apparently unarmed, put the small OC spray into your weak hand. Be sure to orient the nozzle away from you!
3. Sucker-move. If intercept seems likely, fake a move to your left and as soon as he corrects, move to your right sideways several steps. If he corrects to intercept, stop, take a "command stance" (ready to attack or retreat) and command the person "Get away from me!" and prepare the OC spray.
4. Next move is up to him. Closure against you may get him hosed w/OC.

Quote:

Second, I'm moving to a lower crime area where people are a lot nicer. Should I still carry all the time?

This one is up to you. Just remember, crimes happen in "nice" neighborhoods too.

STEVE M · March 16, 2005, 05:43 AM

Run

YES

You could always try to talk to the guy aproaching you. Verbal self defence is just as usful as firearm skills. Leaving the area is usually the best and easiest solution though. Unless you are a LEO or guard on duty you have to obligation to do anything except protect yourself (and those with you).

Dwight55 · March 16, 2005, 06:36 PM

Chris, . . .

I'm just too old, tired, and slow to fool around with pepper spray and the like, . . . so I would probably allow him to have the whole sidewalk, . . . I mean out to the street, . . . now.

I would also begin to face him with my weak side as I moved my hand toward my pistol. I would probably verbalize a "How you doin' tonight?" to try to get some feel for his present temperament.

If I got no answer, . . . or a bad answer, . . . I would begin backing away and unholstering at the same time.

If he sees what I am doing, . . . and understands it, . . . he will either move off or move in, . . . and his movement will dictate my next move. Like I said, I'm no longer able to scuffle with these bg's, . . . and I ain't gonna.

May God bless,
Dwight

Bullrock · March 16, 2005, 07:43 PM

I take it you didn't know the guy! So!

First, you could put both hands together and rap him on the skull. We used to be able to do that on the line of scrimmage. It used to be very effective. Or, take a quick step to your left/right and kick him in the crotch. Or back up against a brick building and step aside quickly allowing him to butt into the wall. Or, the guy may be nuts, or under the influence. So in any case, get the hell away from him.

Second, Absolutely!

Regards,

perception · March 16, 2005, 09:14 PM

One thing to do is simply say hello. Acknowledge his presence. This forces him to acknowledge your presence and lets him realize you know what he looks like, for identification in a lineup. I read this in a self defense article, and they said most BG's will just move on to a new target once you can identify them.

USP45usp · March 16, 2005, 09:24 PM

Yes, as perception has commented, keep eye contact and acknowledge his presence. DO NOT look away or down but don't stare either.

A person's body language and facial expressions will change before an attack (hey, I've been in fights before

) and if you learn how to read the body and face then you have the advantage to act (and the time) if something does go down (maybe not all the time but it's a good thing to learn).

Also, start doing a slight veering of your direction, you will pick up if he (or she, lets be gender nutrel(sp) here) starts to do the same. If they do I would stop and get into a pre-attack mode (as in, get into a defensive stance (no, not that, just expect to be attacked)) and then, in a loud voice, "Hello, may I help you?". Loud enough to draw the heads of others in your direction, with maybe a quick "Sorry to yell, I'm hard of hearing" (so he/she doesn't think that you "dissed" them).

As for carrying in a "safe" neighborhood, just remember the old adage, "Bad things happen to good people". You may fall into a false sense of security just because you are in a "nice" neighborhood, and that will (can) get you killed.

Wayne

snacktrack · March 16, 2005, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Like I said, I'm no longer able to scuffle with these bg's, . . . and I ain't gonna

I dont think anyone should scuffle, especially when you have a firearm that can be grabbed from you.

Quote:

keep eye contact and acknowledge his presence. DO NOT look away or down but don't stare either.

This is the most important thing, there is a fine line between looking away and staring. Staring can provoke a fight faster than you can blink. I would say its more like watching someone out of your peripheral vision. Do not do what the idiot in the pizza shop did and look down when someone is in your face.

Its such a delicate decision, am I going to get punched or not? It seems like you can only draw if they are showing a weapon or you have already crossed into the getting your head beat in zone.

I got some OC spray because it really bothers me that you can only choose between shooting someone, or taking/giving punches if they pursue you. There are several times that I could have used OC spray, and most likely I will use it someday. Alot of unruly people here in the city.

However, I have been carrying it in my pocket of my jacket/coat cause its cold out. When its hot out, and I only have a t shirt on...not sure what I am going to do. I got a holster, but its a pain to get it out, plus it makes an extra bulky thing that hits my arm when I walk. Those 2oz FoxLab canisters are really thick, they dont fit too well in some of my jeans.

XavierBreath · March 16, 2005, 10:09 PM

A lot of your options will depend on where you happen to be and whether you have planned ahead. Bad guys often win because they have a plan. Good guys often loose because they do not have a plan of thier own, so they follow the BG's plan.

I learned a trick from an old Chief in the Navy. He carried his cash and ID in his front pocket. He carried a wallet with the bogus promotional credit cards you get in the mail and several one dollar bills inserted in it in his back pocket. In San Diego he was approached on the street by two thugs. He saw them approaching, removed the wallet, and threw it as far out in traffic as he could. The thugs went scrambling for the wallet, the Chief hurried away and bought a beer.

Yep, I carry two wallets.

LAK · March 17, 2005, 03:14 AM

Do not run; unless you are a world class sprinter and are 100% sure you can outpace your newly found companion to a truly safe place.

If an attacker catches up with you with your back to him, you are at a total disadvantage. He may stab you, knock you off your feet etc. If you are running flat out and sense he is going to catch up, suddenly stop, turn and engage you are at a reactive disadvantage, maybe off balance, etc. He knows what he is going to do at that point and may rush you with a knife or other weapon.

You may also run headlong into someone else in ambush.

Move away, attempt to make distance maybe. Run - no

chris in va · March 17, 2005, 06:10 PM

Xavier, that's a fantastic idea. I may have to do that...along with pepper spray. You guys are right, a firearm can't really be used as an intermediate weapon for those 'sortof' threats.

'Course now here I am with a cellphone, keys, OC, Zippo, extra wallet, real wallet and IWB CZ walking down the street in my shorts and light shirt in the summer...

March 16, 2005, 01:33 AM	#1
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Two questions First, what is the best thing to do if say...a guy approaches you on the street with his hands in his pockets and you try to veer out of his path, but he still heads toward you in a not-so-friendly manner? I'm not referring necessarily to firearms defense. Second, I'm moving to a lower crime area where people are a lot nicer. Should I still carry all the time?

March 16, 2005, 05:43 AM	#3
STEVE M Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 1999 Location: TN. USA Posts: 607	Run YES You could always try to talk to the guy aproaching you. Verbal self defence is just as usful as firearm skills. Leaving the area is usually the best and easiest solution though. Unless you are a LEO or guard on duty you have to obligation to do anything except protect yourself (and those with you). __________________ MOLON LABE! I've joined the 300.

March 16, 2005, 06:36 PM	#4
Dwight55 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,568	Chris, . . . I'm just too old, tired, and slow to fool around with pepper spray and the like, . . . so I would probably allow him to have the whole sidewalk, . . . I mean out to the street, . . . now. I would also begin to face him with my weak side as I moved my hand toward my pistol. I would probably verbalize a "How you doin' tonight?" to try to get some feel for his present temperament. If I got no answer, . . . or a bad answer, . . . I would begin backing away and unholstering at the same time. If he sees what I am doing, . . . and understands it, . . . he will either move off or move in, . . . and his movement will dictate my next move. Like I said, I'm no longer able to scuffle with these bg's, . . . and I ain't gonna. May God bless, Dwight __________________ www.dwightsgunleather.com If you can breathe, . . . thank God! If you can read, . . . thank a teacher! If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!

March 16, 2005, 10:09 PM	#9
XavierBreath Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2002 Location: North Louisiana Posts: 2,800	A lot of your options will depend on where you happen to be and whether you have planned ahead. Bad guys often win because they have a plan. Good guys often loose because they do not have a plan of thier own, so they follow the BG's plan. I learned a trick from an old Chief in the Navy. He carried his cash and ID in his front pocket. He carried a wallet with the bogus promotional credit cards you get in the mail and several one dollar bills inserted in it in his back pocket. In San Diego he was approached on the street by two thugs. He saw them approaching, removed the wallet, and threw it as far out in traffic as he could. The thugs went scrambling for the wallet, the Chief hurried away and bought a beer. Yep, I carry two wallets. __________________ Xavier's Blog

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March 16, 2005, 07:43 PM	#5
Bullrock Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2004 Posts: 2,686	I take it you didn't know the guy! So! First, you could put both hands together and rap him on the skull. We used to be able to do that on the line of scrimmage. It used to be very effective. Or, take a quick step to your left/right and kick him in the crotch. Or back up against a brick building and step aside quickly allowing him to butt into the wall. Or, the guy may be nuts, or under the influence. So in any case, get the hell away from him. Second, Absolutely! Regards,

March 16, 2005, 09:14 PM	#6
perception Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 421	One thing to do is simply say hello. Acknowledge his presence. This forces him to acknowledge your presence and lets him realize you know what he looks like, for identification in a lineup. I read this in a self defense article, and they said most BG's will just move on to a new target once you can identify them.

March 16, 2005, 09:24 PM	#7
USP45usp Junior member Join Date: May 17, 2000 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 3,427	Yes, as perception has commented, keep eye contact and acknowledge his presence. DO NOT look away or down but don't stare either. A person's body language and facial expressions will change before an attack (hey, I've been in fights before ) and if you learn how to read the body and face then you have the advantage to act (and the time) if something does go down (maybe not all the time but it's a good thing to learn). Also, start doing a slight veering of your direction, you will pick up if he (or she, lets be gender nutrel(sp) here) starts to do the same. If they do I would stop and get into a pre-attack mode (as in, get into a defensive stance (no, not that, just expect to be attacked)) and then, in a loud voice, "Hello, may I help you?". Loud enough to draw the heads of others in your direction, with maybe a quick "Sorry to yell, I'm hard of hearing" (so he/she doesn't think that you "dissed" them). As for carrying in a "safe" neighborhood, just remember the old adage, "Bad things happen to good people". You may fall into a false sense of security just because you are in a "nice" neighborhood, and that will (can) get you killed. Wayne

March 17, 2005, 03:14 AM	#10
LAK Junior member Join Date: May 14, 2002 Posts: 2,251	Do not run; unless you are a world class sprinter and are 100% sure you can outpace your newly found companion to a truly safe place. If an attacker catches up with you with your back to him, you are at a total disadvantage. He may stab you, knock you off your feet etc. If you are running flat out and sense he is going to catch up, suddenly stop, turn and engage you are at a reactive disadvantage, maybe off balance, etc. He knows what he is going to do at that point and may rush you with a knife or other weapon. You may also run headlong into someone else in ambush. Move away, attempt to make distance maybe. Run - no

March 17, 2005, 06:10 PM	#11
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Xavier, that's a fantastic idea. I may have to do that...along with pepper spray. You guys are right, a firearm can't really be used as an intermediate weapon for those 'sortof' threats. 'Course now here I am with a cellphone, keys, OC, Zippo, extra wallet, real wallet and IWB CZ walking down the street in my shorts and light shirt in the summer...