Alliant 2400 for .45 LC, ACP & Tokarev

motmot · November 16, 2013, 12:11 PM

I recently acquired 2 lbs of Alliant 2400 powder and 1000 200 gr. cast bullets and am having a hard time finding recipes to fit my needs. I would like to reload my .45 acp and .45 Long Colt with these components since that's what I have on hand. I also reload my 7.62 x 25 using Hornady 86 gr RNSP & 90 gr XTP JHP and really have a hard time finding recipes for that round. Can anyone work up something for me using the 2400 powder with these bullets? The Alliant load data is zero help.

Hammerhead · November 16, 2013, 12:17 PM

Is 2400 the only powder you have?

**44 AMP** · November 16, 2013, 12:43 PM

While there are loads for 2400 in the .45 Colt, 2400 is best suited for loads on the heavier end of the .45 Colt's range, and your 200gr bullets, while usable in the .45 Colt are 1)probably intended for the .45ACP, and 2)not a very suitable bullet for loads in the heavy end of the .45 Colt range.

2400 is NOT a good powder for use in the .45ACP or in the 7.62x25.

one load listed for 2400 in the Tokarev, Hornady 90gr bullet. Starting load 8.6gr, max 11.8gr (approach carefully, the max for your gun could be quite different). Test gun CZ 52

NO loads found in .45ACP for 2400 powder in my reference library.

Loads for .45 Colt, (Ruger/ TC Contender only section of Hornady book)

250gr jacketed, starting load 19.7gr, max 20.8gr (note the small 1.1gr difference between starting and max they had)

240gr jacketed starting 20.4gr, max 23.9gr

Info from Hornady 7th edition . Use with caution. I have no experience with 2400 in these calibers. I have extensive experience with 2400 powder in the 357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, and .22 Hornet. In .45 Colt, I use Unique, which also works tolerably well in the .45 ACP also.

motmot · November 16, 2013, 02:44 PM

Thank you 44AMP for all the good info. Looks like I can get some Tok's out of it at least. That's my favorite gun to shoot anyway so I'll make a bunch of those if nothing else.

I usually use Unique in all my loads, just easier to stay with one powder. In total I load .45 ACP, .45 LC, 9mm, .380 auto, and the Tok. I thought I was ordering more Unique from Cabela's but guess I wasn't paying attention to the drop down box and ended up with 2400. My bad but can't return it so I'm trying to use it, plus I can't find any Unique or Bullseye in stock anywhere and am running low on rounds for all my guns and need to build some more. That's why I was hoping to be able to configure the 2400 in the mix somehow. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Also for clarification the.45 Colt that I shoot is a 1917 New Service revolver that was my grandfather's in WWI so I don't want to push it too hard.

hodaka · November 16, 2013, 02:51 PM

If you can find someone to trade or sell the 2400 to that would be best. It works great in .357, 30 carbine and I'm sure a few others that I don't load for.

motmot · November 16, 2013, 03:00 PM

I agree but finding someone to give up the Unique seems tough right now. But having said that, if anyone does want to trade I'm listening.

bluetopper · November 16, 2013, 10:08 PM

2400 is great for 357 and 44 Magnum but it's a much slower burning powder than you need for your calibers. You'll get a lot of incomplete powder burn and maybe some duds.

Clark · November 16, 2013, 10:25 PM

I have experimented with the Tokarev round in CZ52s, Tokarevs, and C96s.

I have worked up to case failure or case fill with Power Pistol, AA#5, AA#9, Ramshot Enforcer, LIL'GUN, N110, N105, H110, and XMP5744.

The work that ballistician Ted Curtis did when he was employed by Accurate Arms in early 2000 showed that all Eastern block Tokarev ammo was 42,000 c.u.p., except Russian, which was much less.

Through 2000 load books seemed to say the hierarchy of loads and pressure were:
1) CZ52
2) Tokarev
3) C96

After 2000 I started telling them they were wrong [based on high pressure experiments, metal hardness measurements, and metal thickness]. I asked them where they got that info. "We just printed what we read." was a common answer.

I now believe the hierarchy for pressure is:
1) Tokarev
2) C96
3) CZ52.

The load books I see these days give them all 3 very low pressure.

But with 86 and 90 gr bullets, looking for 42k cup and a case full, for a Tokarev, 2400 might be considered the optimum powder.

motmot · November 17, 2013, 10:30 AM

Wow! Thanks for the great news Clark. It's sounding like I may get some use out of this 2400 after all. I do shoot the M57 Tokarev (3 of them actually) and agree on the strength rating, built like tanks and the ease of cleaning is a blessing. I also shoot the PPS-43 which eats ammo like crazy. Sounds to me that this slower burning powder may be better suited for the 10" barrel on that beast. Maybe that will allow me to get the full potential with less unburned powder? Finding load data for the Tok's is hard enough, anyone have info or recipes for something specific to the PPS-43?

motmot · November 25, 2013, 06:22 PM

Just an update on the 2400 powder. I loaded some Tok rounds with 10 grains of the stuff and they worked well in both the M-57 and PPS. I also had a mag for each loaded with some of the S&B rounds I had bought last year. By comparison the S&B was extremely tame. In the PPS there is virtually no recoil with the S&B due to the mass of the gun and long bolt spring. The 10 grains of 2400 made a significant difference in the pop and push department. I also loaded 30 rounds with 11 grains which just about filled the case, those made the PPS downright nasty to deal with. Not sure how fast the bullets were going but my shoulder says they were departing with bad intentions. All loads were with the 90 gr XTP JHP. Time to finally get that chrony I've been wanting.

November 16, 2013, 12:11 PM	#1
motmot Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Posts: 24	Alliant 2400 for .45 LC, ACP & Tokarev I recently acquired 2 lbs of Alliant 2400 powder and 1000 200 gr. cast bullets and am having a hard time finding recipes to fit my needs. I would like to reload my .45 acp and .45 Long Colt with these components since that's what I have on hand. I also reload my 7.62 x 25 using Hornady 86 gr RNSP & 90 gr XTP JHP and really have a hard time finding recipes for that round. Can anyone work up something for me using the 2400 powder with these bullets? The Alliant load data is zero help.

November 16, 2013, 12:43 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,803	While there are loads for 2400 in the .45 Colt, 2400 is best suited for loads on the heavier end of the .45 Colt's range, and your 200gr bullets, while usable in the .45 Colt are 1)probably intended for the .45ACP, and 2)not a very suitable bullet for loads in the heavy end of the .45 Colt range. 2400 is NOT a good powder for use in the .45ACP or in the 7.62x25. one load listed for 2400 in the Tokarev, Hornady 90gr bullet. Starting load 8.6gr, max 11.8gr (approach carefully, the max for your gun could be quite different). Test gun CZ 52 NO loads found in .45ACP for 2400 powder in my reference library. Loads for .45 Colt, (Ruger/ TC Contender only section of Hornady book) 250gr jacketed, starting load 19.7gr, max 20.8gr (note the small 1.1gr difference between starting and max they had) 240gr jacketed starting 20.4gr, max 23.9gr Info from Hornady 7th edition . Use with caution. I have no experience with 2400 in these calibers. I have extensive experience with 2400 powder in the 357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, and .22 Hornet. In .45 Colt, I use Unique, which also works tolerably well in the .45 ACP also. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 16, 2013, 02:44 PM	#4
motmot Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Posts: 24	Thank you 44AMP for all the good info. Looks like I can get some Tok's out of it at least. That's my favorite gun to shoot anyway so I'll make a bunch of those if nothing else. I usually use Unique in all my loads, just easier to stay with one powder. In total I load .45 ACP, .45 LC, 9mm, .380 auto, and the Tok. I thought I was ordering more Unique from Cabela's but guess I wasn't paying attention to the drop down box and ended up with 2400. My bad but can't return it so I'm trying to use it, plus I can't find any Unique or Bullseye in stock anywhere and am running low on rounds for all my guns and need to build some more. That's why I was hoping to be able to configure the 2400 in the mix somehow. Any suggestions are appreciated. Also for clarification the.45 Colt that I shoot is a 1917 New Service revolver that was my grandfather's in WWI so I don't want to push it too hard. Last edited by motmot; November 16, 2013 at 02:57 PM.

November 16, 2013, 10:25 PM	#8
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I have experimented with the Tokarev round in CZ52s, Tokarevs, and C96s. I have worked up to case failure or case fill with Power Pistol, AA#5, AA#9, Ramshot Enforcer, LIL'GUN, N110, N105, H110, and XMP5744. The work that ballistician Ted Curtis did when he was employed by Accurate Arms in early 2000 showed that all Eastern block Tokarev ammo was 42,000 c.u.p., except Russian, which was much less. Through 2000 load books seemed to say the hierarchy of loads and pressure were: 1) CZ52 2) Tokarev 3) C96 After 2000 I started telling them they were wrong [based on high pressure experiments, metal hardness measurements, and metal thickness]. I asked them where they got that info. "We just printed what we read." was a common answer. I now believe the hierarchy for pressure is: 1) Tokarev 2) C96 3) CZ52. The load books I see these days give them all 3 very low pressure. But with 86 and 90 gr bullets, looking for 42k cup and a case full, for a Tokarev, 2400 might be considered the optimum powder. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

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November 16, 2013, 12:17 PM	#2
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	Is 2400 the only powder you have?

November 16, 2013, 02:51 PM	#5
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	If you can find someone to trade or sell the 2400 to that would be best. It works great in .357, 30 carbine and I'm sure a few others that I don't load for.

November 16, 2013, 03:00 PM	#6
motmot Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Posts: 24	I agree but finding someone to give up the Unique seems tough right now. But having said that, if anyone does want to trade I'm listening.

November 16, 2013, 10:08 PM	#7
bluetopper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2005 Location: Northeast TX Posts: 1,197	2400 is great for 357 and 44 Magnum but it's a much slower burning powder than you need for your calibers. You'll get a lot of incomplete powder burn and maybe some duds.

November 17, 2013, 10:30 AM	#9
motmot Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Posts: 24	Wow! Thanks for the great news Clark. It's sounding like I may get some use out of this 2400 after all. I do shoot the M57 Tokarev (3 of them actually) and agree on the strength rating, built like tanks and the ease of cleaning is a blessing. I also shoot the PPS-43 which eats ammo like crazy. Sounds to me that this slower burning powder may be better suited for the 10" barrel on that beast. Maybe that will allow me to get the full potential with less unburned powder? Finding load data for the Tok's is hard enough, anyone have info or recipes for something specific to the PPS-43?

November 25, 2013, 06:22 PM	#10
motmot Member Join Date: February 21, 2012 Posts: 24	Just an update on the 2400 powder. I loaded some Tok rounds with 10 grains of the stuff and they worked well in both the M-57 and PPS. I also had a mag for each loaded with some of the S&B rounds I had bought last year. By comparison the S&B was extremely tame. In the PPS there is virtually no recoil with the S&B due to the mass of the gun and long bolt spring. The 10 grains of 2400 made a significant difference in the pop and push department. I also loaded 30 rounds with 11 grains which just about filled the case, those made the PPS downright nasty to deal with. Not sure how fast the bullets were going but my shoulder says they were departing with bad intentions. All loads were with the 90 gr XTP JHP. Time to finally get that chrony I've been wanting.