38Spl Target Bullet [Your favorite]???

tonyz · January 15, 2001, 04:06 PM

I am just curious as to your Favorite 38Spl Bullet type for target shooting?

Mine is the 148Gr DEWC plated.

With 3.5Gr win-231. These loads get me 3/4 to 1" groups at 50 feet. With my Ruger Blackhawk 4 5/8" Barrel.

Also they can be loaded lite and accurate, so my wife will shoot the Revolver!

What is your favorite??

Tony Z

Southla1 · January 15, 2001, 07:00 PM

I like either the cast Lyman wadcutter or the Speer HBWC over either 2.5 or 2.7 grains of Bullseye. I use the 2.5 grains in my revolvers and the 2.7 grain load in my S&W 52. The reason that I use the extra 2/10 grain in the Model 52 is to assure reliable functioning of the auto pistol. If I find a good deal on the Speer wadcutters I buy them, and if no good deal is to be had, I just cast, size, and lube my own.

WESHOOT2 · January 15, 2001, 07:04 PM

I like a hard-cast 158g round nose.

char923 · January 15, 2001, 08:03 PM

I like hard cast 158gr SWC with 5.3gr of N340, it chrony at 874 FPS

C.R.Sam · January 15, 2001, 11:37 PM

I like cast 148gr WC out to 25yds. 158gr SWC beyond 25yds.

Sam

Tree Rat · January 16, 2001, 08:01 AM

Remington 148 grain swaged HBWC. Tree Rat.

LIProgun · January 16, 2001, 10:37 AM

My favorite is the Hornady 148 grain HBWC, followed by the Speer 148 grain HBWC. I prefer the Hornady because the graphite-type powdery lube doesn't gunk up the seating die like Speer's waxy lube.

For applications other than the S&W Model 52, I like the cast 148 grain BBWC, as it is cheaper. The cast 158 grain LWSC is fine too.

Quantrill · January 16, 2001, 04:55 PM

My favorite is Lyman 35891, a bevel base wadcutter that I cast myself and usually load unsized but lubricated. The most accurate is the Remington factory swaged bullet. Quantrill

Southla1 · January 16, 2001, 06:51 PM

LIProgun, the cast Lyman 358495 wadcutter works fine in my S&W 52, but they either have to be loaded upside down or seated a little bit deeper in the case than normal to feed into the magazine. Either way the perform fine at 25 and 50 yards.

LIProgun · January 17, 2001, 10:04 AM

Southla1, thanks for the tip. When I tried loading the Magnus cast 148 grain BBWC for the S&W 52, I could not get the bullet deep enough in the case to feed in the magazine (without crushing the case mouth) due to the little nub on the top of the bullet. I guess I can try reversing the bullet, but other, more experienced bullseye shooters tell me they are unable to get the same level of accuracy from their 52s using cast bullets as they do from swaged HBWCs.

Southla1 · January 17, 2001, 10:22 AM

LIProgun, the Speer 148 HBWC DOES perform better than my cast Lymans, BUT the difference is less than I am capable of holding

. I notice it from a rest but can't tell the difference when firing offhand, in fact I cannot tell the difference between handloads with the Lyman, handloads with the Speer HBWC, or Remington factory 148 Match offhand. Of course the old eyes and arms are not what they used to be either

.

Quantrill · January 17, 2001, 11:26 AM

When loading the Lyman 35891 or 358495, I seat the bullet deeper in the case so that the "BUMP" at the top is flush with the end of the case. I tried reversing the bullet so the base was at the top. They fed fine but I got terrible leading. Same bullets, same lubricant everything the same except for reversing the bullet. I have never had the courage to try that again. Well cast bullets usually score about the same as the factory for me but I can't hold well enough to tell the difference. Club level competition. Quantrill

SharpCdn · January 17, 2001, 01:01 PM

Has anyone tried shortening the length of their brass, before loading in order to accomodate the Lyman type bullet in their model 52's?

Southla1 · January 17, 2001, 01:47 PM

Quantrill, what velocity were you loading those "backwards" 358485 Lymans at? I never did have a leading problem with loading them either way, but I hold them to the 650 FPS range and use a fairly hard lead, so maybe that's why I have never encountered the leading problem.

Southla1 · January 17, 2001, 01:51 PM

SharpCdn, that's an interesting idea about shortning the case. I had not thought of that one. I imagine it could be done but, it would take time, and one other thing, new loads would have to be worked up due to less interior space in the cartridge. To acheive the same velocity a reduction in the powder may have to be made. I may experiment on that one day when I have the chance.

Quantrill · January 17, 2001, 02:55 PM

Southla1,
Velocities for the reversed bullets were 750fps, 2.5 gr 700X. I could never account for the leading. The bullets were 1/2 linotype, 1/2 bullet salvage lead, about 15 brinell. They were the same bullets that I used and continue to use for years with nary a problem. When I reversed them, I loaded up 25 just to see the results. I expected that I would change my loading to all reversed after my trial. After 10 rounds, I started getting flyers. After 20 rounds, I couldn't stay on the paper. I suspected loose sights or something wrong with the 52. When I got home and put the Lewis Lead Remover though the barrel, it came out with enough lead to recast. I never pursued it any further to this day. I assume you meant 358495 in your post. Quantrill

Southla1 · January 17, 2001, 07:41 PM

Wow Quantrill!

Thats almost the same thing EXACTLY that I am using, only difference is I use 2.7 grains Bullseye, but the cast mix is almost the same ......... 1/2 linotype and the other half "pickup" lead ... wheelweights, stolen errrrrr "borrowed", divers weights lead, batteries, telephone sheathing, lod plumbing pipes, anything I can find, plus my father gave me about 200# that he had lying around his shop that he had collected over the years that came from lead based babbit, pump bearings etc. The linotype I "borrowed" my self way back in 1970 when the newspaper I was working at part time changed from hot type to the photographic process, and the linotype was declared surplus. I think I am going to experiment and use that 358495 and cast 1/2 lino and 1/2 pure lead and load it backwards, and fire like 2 or 4 hundred and watch carefully for it. Did you ever fire any of them loaded backwards in a revolver? I have though not that many but there too I have had no leading either. Most of the 358495 that I use in my S&W 27 I load right way out, but with only 2.5 or 2.3 grains of Bullseye, that way I can tell at a glance which is which. Don't you just love that Mod 52 though

?

Quantrill · January 18, 2001, 03:38 AM

Southla1,
Never tried it in a revolver. The episode with the 52 scared me so bad that I have never reversed another bullet. There was probably some unusual circumstance for that one time and I could do again and have no problems at all. But it is like a corner where you saw a really bad accident, you always look extra hard when approaching it for years later. Glad to see another 700X user. With all these new powders, one hardly ever hears of good old 700X and it has always served me well for pistol target loads and shotgun trap loads. Best of luck, Quantrill

Southla1 · January 18, 2001, 12:14 PM

Quantrill,
I can relate to avoiding what may cause leading like the plague. The first .357 I ever owned I managed to lead the barrel so badly that you could not SEE the rifling! I bought the gun from a retired police officer, went straight to the store and bought a box of Winchester 158 grain "LubAlloy" cartridges for it. Went straight to the base and to range 6C to try it out. Fired 3 rounds and they were grouped low in the X ring. 4th round was low in the 9 ring. 5th round was low in the 5 ring! 6th round was off the paper, and ricoched off of the angle iron that held the target frame a good foot below the 5 ring! My friend was laughing at me so much he was almost crying. He siad "hell of a master you are, or are you gonna hit them in the knees?" I knew it was not me, so I checked the sights and they were screwed on tight, then I happened to look in the bore! Rifling was gone! Took me 3 hours of scrubbing to get it all out. No telling how many of Uncle Sams 38 and even 45 brushes I ruined cleaning it. I used a pair of pliers and my loading press and pulled the other 44 rounds in that box and pitched the bullets away, weighed and saved the powder. Re-belled the case mouths and loaded them with a cast 158 grain bullet made by a company named Markell out of San Francisco. No problems what so ever. I looked into it and found out that Winchester was using pure lead and swaging it then electroplating it with a thin coating of copper. Too thin! To this day the only leading problem I had was one spot in the bore of my Ruger 44 Magnum but that same spot was rough and would collect a copper fouling buildup also. I lapped it and no problems whatsoever since then. I have used the linotype pure and in a gas check design driven them to right at 2300 FPS in my 30-06 with no leading problems either.

Gewehr98 · January 18, 2001, 09:04 PM

My S&W Model 52 leaded up horribly with Speer, Meister, and a couple other soft swaged 148gr HBWC's. My 6" Steel Challenge revolver did the same, especially in the forcing cone. I tried loading down, up, different powders, etc. I even considered sending the 52's barrel off to S&W to have it throated. The Hornady graphite-lubed HBWC's were better, but still leaded after about 50 or so rounds. I found a box of Albert's 148gr Moly HBWC's, and they worked great, but that company no longer exists. Then I bought some of the Berry's copper-plated 148gr HBWC's, and wow! Now they're all I use anymore in the 52, on top of 3.2gr of WST. Same wonderful accuracy, easier cleanup.

If I'm not running the 148gr plated HBWC's in my revolver, I run a hard cast 158gr SWC made locally by a place called John's Precision Cast Bullets. They make the steel plates fall right now!

January 15, 2001, 04:06 PM	#1
tonyz Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Location: Wa Posts: 922	I am just curious as to your Favorite 38Spl Bullet type for target shooting? Mine is the 148Gr DEWC plated. With 3.5Gr win-231. These loads get me 3/4 to 1" groups at 50 feet. With my Ruger Blackhawk 4 5/8" Barrel. Also they can be loaded lite and accurate, so my wife will shoot the Revolver! What is your favorite?? Tony Z __________________ Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained

January 15, 2001, 07:04 PM	#3
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	I like a hard-cast 158g round nose. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 16, 2001, 10:37 AM	#7
LIProgun Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2000 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Posts: 489	My favorite is the Hornady 148 grain HBWC, followed by the Speer 148 grain HBWC. I prefer the Hornady because the graphite-type powdery lube doesn't gunk up the seating die like Speer's waxy lube. For applications other than the S&W Model 52, I like the cast 148 grain BBWC, as it is cheaper. The cast 158 grain LWSC is fine too. __________________ MOLON LABE. - Leonidas of Sparta, 480 B.C.

January 17, 2001, 10:04 AM	#10
LIProgun Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2000 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Posts: 489	Southla1, thanks for the tip. When I tried loading the Magnus cast 148 grain BBWC for the S&W 52, I could not get the bullet deep enough in the case to feed in the magazine (without crushing the case mouth) due to the little nub on the top of the bullet. I guess I can try reversing the bullet, but other, more experienced bullseye shooters tell me they are unable to get the same level of accuracy from their 52s using cast bullets as they do from swaged HBWCs. __________________ MOLON LABE. - Leonidas of Sparta, 480 B.C.

January 15, 2001, 07:00 PM	#2
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	I like either the cast Lyman wadcutter or the Speer HBWC over either 2.5 or 2.7 grains of Bullseye. I use the 2.5 grains in my revolvers and the 2.7 grain load in my S&W 52. The reason that I use the extra 2/10 grain in the Model 52 is to assure reliable functioning of the auto pistol. If I find a good deal on the Speer wadcutters I buy them, and if no good deal is to be had, I just cast, size, and lube my own.

January 15, 2001, 08:03 PM	#4
char923 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2000 Location: Anchorage AK Posts: 237	I like hard cast 158gr SWC with 5.3gr of N340, it chrony at 874 FPS

January 15, 2001, 11:37 PM	#5
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	I like cast 148gr WC out to 25yds. 158gr SWC beyond 25yds. Sam

January 16, 2001, 08:01 AM	#6
Tree Rat Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2000 Posts: 138	Remington 148 grain swaged HBWC. Tree Rat.

January 16, 2001, 04:55 PM	#8
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	My favorite is Lyman 35891, a bevel base wadcutter that I cast myself and usually load unsized but lubricated. The most accurate is the Remington factory swaged bullet. Quantrill

January 16, 2001, 06:51 PM	#9
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	LIProgun, the cast Lyman 358495 wadcutter works fine in my S&W 52, but they either have to be loaded upside down or seated a little bit deeper in the case than normal to feed into the magazine. Either way the perform fine at 25 and 50 yards.

January 17, 2001, 10:22 AM	#11
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	LIProgun, the Speer 148 HBWC DOES perform better than my cast Lymans, BUT the difference is less than I am capable of holding . I notice it from a rest but can't tell the difference when firing offhand, in fact I cannot tell the difference between handloads with the Lyman, handloads with the Speer HBWC, or Remington factory 148 Match offhand. Of course the old eyes and arms are not what they used to be either .

January 17, 2001, 11:26 AM	#12
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	When loading the Lyman 35891 or 358495, I seat the bullet deeper in the case so that the "BUMP" at the top is flush with the end of the case. I tried reversing the bullet so the base was at the top. They fed fine but I got terrible leading. Same bullets, same lubricant everything the same except for reversing the bullet. I have never had the courage to try that again. Well cast bullets usually score about the same as the factory for me but I can't hold well enough to tell the difference. Club level competition. Quantrill

January 17, 2001, 01:01 PM	#13
SharpCdn Member Join Date: July 29, 1999 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 72	Has anyone tried shortening the length of their brass, before loading in order to accomodate the Lyman type bullet in their model 52's?

January 17, 2001, 01:47 PM	#14
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	Quantrill, what velocity were you loading those "backwards" 358485 Lymans at? I never did have a leading problem with loading them either way, but I hold them to the 650 FPS range and use a fairly hard lead, so maybe that's why I have never encountered the leading problem.

January 17, 2001, 01:51 PM	#15
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	SharpCdn, that's an interesting idea about shortning the case. I had not thought of that one. I imagine it could be done but, it would take time, and one other thing, new loads would have to be worked up due to less interior space in the cartridge. To acheive the same velocity a reduction in the powder may have to be made. I may experiment on that one day when I have the chance.

January 17, 2001, 02:55 PM	#16
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	Southla1, Velocities for the reversed bullets were 750fps, 2.5 gr 700X. I could never account for the leading. The bullets were 1/2 linotype, 1/2 bullet salvage lead, about 15 brinell. They were the same bullets that I used and continue to use for years with nary a problem. When I reversed them, I loaded up 25 just to see the results. I expected that I would change my loading to all reversed after my trial. After 10 rounds, I started getting flyers. After 20 rounds, I couldn't stay on the paper. I suspected loose sights or something wrong with the 52. When I got home and put the Lewis Lead Remover though the barrel, it came out with enough lead to recast. I never pursued it any further to this day. I assume you meant 358495 in your post. Quantrill

January 17, 2001, 07:41 PM	#17
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	Wow Quantrill! Thats almost the same thing EXACTLY that I am using, only difference is I use 2.7 grains Bullseye, but the cast mix is almost the same ......... 1/2 linotype and the other half "pickup" lead ... wheelweights, stolen errrrrr "borrowed", divers weights lead, batteries, telephone sheathing, lod plumbing pipes, anything I can find, plus my father gave me about 200# that he had lying around his shop that he had collected over the years that came from lead based babbit, pump bearings etc. The linotype I "borrowed" my self way back in 1970 when the newspaper I was working at part time changed from hot type to the photographic process, and the linotype was declared surplus. I think I am going to experiment and use that 358495 and cast 1/2 lino and 1/2 pure lead and load it backwards, and fire like 2 or 4 hundred and watch carefully for it. Did you ever fire any of them loaded backwards in a revolver? I have though not that many but there too I have had no leading either. Most of the 358495 that I use in my S&W 27 I load right way out, but with only 2.5 or 2.3 grains of Bullseye, that way I can tell at a glance which is which. Don't you just love that Mod 52 though ?

January 18, 2001, 03:38 AM	#18
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	Southla1, Never tried it in a revolver. The episode with the 52 scared me so bad that I have never reversed another bullet. There was probably some unusual circumstance for that one time and I could do again and have no problems at all. But it is like a corner where you saw a really bad accident, you always look extra hard when approaching it for years later. Glad to see another 700X user. With all these new powders, one hardly ever hears of good old 700X and it has always served me well for pistol target loads and shotgun trap loads. Best of luck, Quantrill

January 18, 2001, 12:14 PM	#19
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	Quantrill, I can relate to avoiding what may cause leading like the plague. The first .357 I ever owned I managed to lead the barrel so badly that you could not SEE the rifling! I bought the gun from a retired police officer, went straight to the store and bought a box of Winchester 158 grain "LubAlloy" cartridges for it. Went straight to the base and to range 6C to try it out. Fired 3 rounds and they were grouped low in the X ring. 4th round was low in the 9 ring. 5th round was low in the 5 ring! 6th round was off the paper, and ricoched off of the angle iron that held the target frame a good foot below the 5 ring! My friend was laughing at me so much he was almost crying. He siad "hell of a master you are, or are you gonna hit them in the knees?" I knew it was not me, so I checked the sights and they were screwed on tight, then I happened to look in the bore! Rifling was gone! Took me 3 hours of scrubbing to get it all out. No telling how many of Uncle Sams 38 and even 45 brushes I ruined cleaning it. I used a pair of pliers and my loading press and pulled the other 44 rounds in that box and pitched the bullets away, weighed and saved the powder. Re-belled the case mouths and loaded them with a cast 158 grain bullet made by a company named Markell out of San Francisco. No problems what so ever. I looked into it and found out that Winchester was using pure lead and swaging it then electroplating it with a thin coating of copper. Too thin! To this day the only leading problem I had was one spot in the bore of my Ruger 44 Magnum but that same spot was rough and would collect a copper fouling buildup also. I lapped it and no problems whatsoever since then. I have used the linotype pure and in a gas check design driven them to right at 2300 FPS in my 30-06 with no leading problems either.

January 18, 2001, 09:04 PM	#20
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	My S&W Model 52 leaded up horribly with Speer, Meister, and a couple other soft swaged 148gr HBWC's. My 6" Steel Challenge revolver did the same, especially in the forcing cone. I tried loading down, up, different powders, etc. I even considered sending the 52's barrel off to S&W to have it throated. The Hornady graphite-lubed HBWC's were better, but still leaded after about 50 or so rounds. I found a box of Albert's 148gr Moly HBWC's, and they worked great, but that company no longer exists. Then I bought some of the Berry's copper-plated 148gr HBWC's, and wow! Now they're all I use anymore in the 52, on top of 3.2gr of WST. Same wonderful accuracy, easier cleanup. If I'm not running the 148gr plated HBWC's in my revolver, I run a hard cast 158gr SWC made locally by a place called John's Precision Cast Bullets. They make the steel plates fall right now!