Info on acquired 44 Magnum reloads

[Powderman]

Well, let's take a look....

180 gr. XTP. Your load--31.3 grains H110.
Max from the Hodgdon Website--31.5.

You're right sat the max load, with no room for error.

240 gr SJHP. Your listed load--22.0 gr. 2400.
Max from the Alliant website: 21.0 grains.

You are over the max recommended load.

200 gr. XTP. Your listed load--18.5 Blue dot
Max from the Alliant website: 16.0 grains.

You are two grains over the max recommended load.

See a pattern here?

Some have mentioned the term "nervous nellies". I don't think that having a .44 Magnum blow up in your hand is a pleasant experience.

I have no idea what the former loader was doing--but some of the loads I read were downright unsafe. The ONLY load that I saw that resembled the ones I use are the ones for the 240 grain LSWC, with 7.5 of Unique. I load a 250 grain Keith style semi-wadcutter, sized to .430 and lubed with Javelina Alox. I cast them out of wheelweights, and load them with 8.5 grains of Unique, any primer. Gets excellent accuracy from my Model 29.

But if I were you, I would not even shoot those.

Pull the bullets. Please. Do NOT shoot those rounds.

[Powderman]

I've seen guns blowup - modern guns are designed to blowup without embedding a chunk of steel in your head. I think some of you watch too much TV and you don't understand the relative risks. Better wear your tinfoil hats tomorrow when the satellite comes down

You know, I was going to let this one go. But--I can't.

Friend, please educate us about the special directional manufacturing method used to ensure that guns can blow up SAFELY.

As for not understanding the relative risks, I guess that 31 years of reloading and gunsmithing experience, building and repairing guns ranging from small handguns to heavy machine guns didn't impart anything to me--because (thank heavens) I have NEVER blown up a gun.

When an overcharge is present in a modern cartridge case--or the available air space or powder space is decreased inadvertently, the pressure upon firing does not increase proportionately or progressively--it increases EXPONENTIALLY. In short, even a relatively small overcharge can cause firing pressures to TRIPLE.

If your load for the .44 Remington Magnum can generate 33,500 CUP on firing, a short round OR an overcharge--or other factors if the cartridge is defective--can spike it up to over 100,000 CUP. Think your magical uniformly self-deflagrating handgun will gently fall apart?

I think not.

To the OP: Do NOT take chances with your safety. Sure, you can buy another gun. Can you buy another finger--or two? How about another hand?

Since the handgun is within your line of sight and close to your face, can you buy an eye--or two?

Do you REALLY want something resembling a hand grenade going off IN YOUR HANDS, and right next to your face?

Think about it well, friend--and for your sake, I'd invest in a bullet puller.

[FrankenMauser]

I've seen guns blowup - modern guns are designed to blowup without embedding a chunk of steel in your head. I think some of you watch too much TV and you don't understand the relative risks. Better wear your tinfoil hats tomorrow when the satellite comes down

I have witnessed at least three catastrophic failures in modern firearms, and many near-failures (slides cracking, cases rupturing, etc).

None of the failures offered any real protection to the shooter. Sure, they may have been lucky enough to make it out of the confusion without a piece of the barrel sticking out of their forehead... But, all it takes is a single, itty-bitty fragment to your favorite eye; and you'll regret the "It'll never happen to me" attitude.

Case in point: Cornbush's Hawkeye incident.
The Ruger held, and the safety features did their job. The escaping gases that didn't go directly through the gas port were directed down the length of the bolt, and deflected by the gas shield. They were also directed downward (inside the bolt), and into the magazine well.

Seems to have worked well, right? Wrong. He still had many pieces of the case head embedded in his face. When the floor plate was "popped" by gas pressure, it sprang open with enough force to bend around its stop, and smacked his support hand on the fore-end. It also launched the follower like a friggin' missile, at his torso. His left arm was also peppered with brass shrapnel and minor parts of the action, when escaping gases used the bolt release as an exit. His right hand got torn up pretty badly by brass shrapnel, as well.

Right hand injuries: Cuts, shrapnel.
Left hand injuries: Cuts, bruises.
Left arm injuries: Cuts, shrapnel.
Face injuries: Cuts, shrapnel.
Torso injury: A nice bruise.

To this very day, he still, occasionally, digs a piece of brass out of his face or hand. He was very lucky that none of the pieces hitting him in the face didn't have enough mass to go through his glasses.

It sure does sound like the rifle saved him, right? Nope. It was only a spectacular case head failure. (We only classify it as a "catastrophic failure", because it rendered the firearm inoperable, and unrepairable.) If the rifle had actually been overloaded far enough to blow, he may not have survived. He surely would have suffered substantial injury.


...Which brings up another point, about these magical "directional destruction" firearms. I was standing right next to Cornbush. My little brother was standing just the other side of him. Neither of us caught a single piece of shrapnel, that caused a wound (my little brother was hit by the bolt release plunger, after it ricocheted off Cornbush; I wasn't hit at all). It seems that rifle's only "directional destruction" was aimed at the shooter.....

[cornbush]

The above referenced incident was not fun I can assure you....... don't mess around with someone else's reloads.
Frankenmauser is correct on the injuries, I still have several pieces of brass and powder embedded in my skin. It slowly works it's way to the surface and I dig it out.
My situation was a proper load, but the powder was not what it said it was.
It really is not worth saving a few bucks by shooting an unknown load (you have no idea if the load data is even correct).
Pull 'em down and reuse everything but the powder, chuck 'em, whatever, but I would definitely NOT shoot them.
Pressure is unforgiving, the difference between normal pressure and massive failure in a firearm can actually be relatively small depending on the gun, even strong guns can and will fail when pushed too far.



Anything made by man can and will fail eventually..........why tempt fate?





OK, my safety minded mini rant is over, decide for yourself how much your body parts are worth to you, and those standing around you.........

[totaldla]

This is what bugs me: some of you worry about 22 grains of 2400 behind a 240gr because it is 2grains over the current book max. But you don't get that you aren't going to blow up a revolver with 2400. On the other hand, you feel safe with the unique put-put loads, yet you can double-charge with Unique in 44mag and disassemble a revolver. That's what I mean by understanding the risks.

[totaldla]

FrankenMauser: That's a rifle - right? In 1986 I saw the space shuttle blow up so now I barbecue only on briquets - none of that dangerous gas stuff for me!

[Habaz72]

totaldla: It seems to me that you're suggesting that he use loads that are over max but you haven't followed the forum rules in the sticky thread about including a proper warning on such loads.

[Brian Pfleuger]

It's not a matter of what "I" could do... I can reasonably control me. It's a matter of what some other guy, of unknown competence, who I've never even met, could do with unknown components, of unknown age and storage.

[Powderman]

But you don't get that you aren't going to blow up a revolver with 2400.

Friend, with an attitude like that, you're a bomb waiting to go off.

Best of luck to you, and wear your Kevlar gloves when shooting.

[totaldla]

Powderman: You're taking bits and pieces out of context. Try following the thread first and then you can criticize me.

[FrankenMauser]

FrankenMauser: That's a rifle - right? In 1986 I saw the space shuttle blow up so now I barbecue only on briquets - none of that dangerous gas stuff for me!

Unless Ruger renamed one of their revolvers the "M77 Hawkeye"... that's a rifle.

The Challenger incident didn't involve gas. It involved the negligent mis-use of a man-made device. An O-ring, that was not rated for the low ambient temperatures it was exposed to at launch, was given the "all clear" by mission controllers, under strong objections from the vehicle engineers. (It was going to be used outside its design parameters...)

When the Solid Rocket Booster ("SRB") ignited, it allowed hot gases to escape through the too-cold-to-seal O-ring. Those hot gases began eroding one of the SRB attachment mounts, and the Shuttle's external fuel tank. When the attachment broke, it sent a massive shock wave through the SRB and shuttle. This shock wave opened the failed joint even further, and caused the external tank's structure to buckle.

Once the external tank exposed its cargo (liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen) to the hot gases coming from the SRB, it was all over.

Negligence, and assumptions made by people operating the vehicle caused that failure. It wasn't the fault of the engineers, manufacturer, or the propellants in question.


Using over-max loads in a firearm the load was not developed for, is most definitely negligent.


-One interesting thing that came to public light after the Challenger disaster, was that the SRBs were actually buckling and expanding during flight. They were not designed to do so, but still functioned safely on previous flights. This deformation was most apparent at the joints where the massive O-rings were used. The metal would get bent and buckled at the joints, but the O-ring would extrude itself into the new voids, and re-seal the joint. For the Challenger launch, the O-ring was too cold to do its job.


Check your O-rings, next time you light those briquettes. It may save your life.

[Ultravox]

When (not if) you start pulling these cartridges make sure you wear your eye protection. It is possible to shatter the impact pullers.

[Rifleman55]

I would not shoot those loads either. Some of the powder formulations have changed slightly over the years, as have the means to measure pressure.
Elmer Keith loaded and shot thousands of rounds of .44 mag with a 245-250 gr cast bullet with 22grs. of 2400 and standard large pistol primers. I used the same bullet and 20gr of 2400 with large pistol magnum primers for years, now the manuals show a lesser charge. 8to 10 gr. of unique with that same bullet also worked and recoiled a lot less.
Now days I shoot mostly .44 specials in that old Blackhawk, they punch paper just fine.

[Ozzieman]

My name is “NANCY”
Then again I had my glasses broken, nose broken and a good jacket ruined from all the blood from the T charging handle of an AR from a nitwit’s poor reloading habits. Every round he had loaded (everything was confiscated at the range by the range officer) was carefully marked with bullet, powder type and powder weight and the velocity chart and drop. I heard later in the day he said to the range officer “I thought the first two rounds were a little strange”.
He just accidently picked up the wrong powder canister when it loaded them (Pistol powder). At the time he had been reloading for over 10 years.
Two years later he blew up an N frame Smith, never heard the reason but he lost his range privileges.
Yes my name is Nancy when it comes to someone else’s reloads.

[TXGunNut]

I don't think this forum has a mission statement but if it did I'm sure "promoting safe and responsible reloading practices" or something similar would be there. If some of you experienced reloaders want to fire reloads that are at the very least questionable that's OK by me, just give me a head's up if you're shooting nearby.
OP is not an experienced reloader and asked our opinion, I think the only safe answer is pull 'em.

[Shotgun693]

OK, I carried a S&W M29 for years. Most of these loads aren't going to be a lot of fun to plink with. Pull'm apart, dump the powder in your garden, fine for nearly anything worth growing, reload'm with something like Trail Boss and go have fun with'm. If you then want some serious hunting or self-defense ammo load'm up as you like.

[totaldla]

By the way, gun powder doesn't feed the plants. I've tried it a number of times with different powders.

[Jimro]

totaldla,

You are like a West Point 2nd Lieutenant spouting off about "my military experience."

Here is a hint, when everyone in the forum is ganging up on you for the unsafe advice you are giving it is time to step back and examine yourself.

It is one thing to have a disagreement, even a heated one, if you can reasonably articulate your position and back it up with well document facts and history. It is quite another thing to accuse careful men of cowardice based on your own recklessness.

I've loaded squib loads for pistols, and I gave those reloads to my brother who actually shot them through his revolver. I am a very careful reloader, but a moments distraction drove home to me exactly how careful I WASN'T at that point. I would never have forgiven myself if my brother lost a finger, a hand, or his life based on a single moment of carelessness over multiple years of reloading.

Jimro

[overkill0084]

Pull the bullets and use the powder for your petunias. What you have is a bunch of ammo with large question marks on the boxes. Odds are that they will work fine. But it only takes one bad round to ruin things.
The stuff at or over max has to go regardless.
Did this guy zero his scale for that session? Is his scale working correctly? was he dyslexic that day and read the scale wrong? Too many unknowns.
Aside from a bit of time and money saved by casually stuffing these in your gun, what's the upside? The risk vs. reward equation is one you will need to sort out for yourself. I recommend you err on the side of safety.

[totaldla]

Jimro: sometimes "forum think" is like the squawk from a flock of turkeys - they all do it out of instinct whether there is a real threat or not.

[Jimro]

totaldla,

You really do sound like a cherry West Point 2LT who doesn't know that his "military experience" amounts to jack and squat.

If you want to not be part of the "forum think", why don't you advise people to drive against traffic? It is just as quick a way to get yourself and others hurt or killed. If you really want to "defy the groupthink" you'll put your life where your mouth is and risk your one life and limb, not someone elses.

There is a reason prudent people agree on safety. It isn't fear, it isn't "forum think" or "group think" it is years of experience from guys who have "been there, done that."

Jimro

[totaldla]

Jimro: You really should go back and read the OP. Then post.

[Mal H]

... and ... we're done.