Martial arts? - Page 3

Agios · June 15, 2007, 01:16 PM

One important point to remember is that a majority of sd situations happen quick and very often the perpertrator(s) depend on the element of surprise and count on striking first.

Samurai · June 15, 2007, 01:36 PM

Thanks, Deaf Smith!

Tanzer, I see your point, but I have to disagree with you on one minor technicality:

Quote:

Starbuck,
Myth or not, the idea is that rank should be ability based, and not a measure of attendance. Perfect attendance certificates will not help you ward off an attacker.

No, the idea is not that rank should be ability based. The idea is that rank should not matter. When in the dojo, a proper student shows respect for a fellow student, whether five belt ranks higher or lower. No matter what rank, you listen to your instructor, and do your best to train in the way.

If, outside the dojo, you want to know "who's better," then the color of your belt is NOT the way to determine it. I've seen white belts put black belts on the FLOOR, and I've seen it go the other way around. The only way to settle "who's better" is to take it to the mat and find out. (Unless one of the people is ME, in which case I'll just readilly admit: "You're better.")

And, incidentally, in our school, it's not that hard to get a black belt. (Though, we have had people fail tests...) It takes several years, but the testing requirements can be attained, provided you always show up for class, pay attention, and put forth a moderate level of effort. BUT, in our school, we also DON'T teach that a black-belt rank makes you a "master-fighter".

In my home dojo, we say that true learning doesn't really begin UNTIL you get your black belt. Up until black belt, you're just learning the fundamentals of fighting, the "building blocks" upon which a good fighter is made. After you already know all the katas, all the moves, all the twists and turns, THEN the real training begins. THEN you learn how to truly USE those moves, not just how to PERFORM the moves.

I would say that one problem with the American martial arts community is this "stigma" that is placed on "black belts." Being a "black belt" in a martial art is really not a big deal. I wish people wouldn't put so much emphasis on it...

Tanzer · June 15, 2007, 05:38 PM

Samurai,
I think we really agree, it's just the wording. When it comes to the bottom line, I agree totally. That's what the forum is about, and I guess the originator of this thread got to see how complicated (and hopefully how important) the decision making process is. This thread is like a microchasm of the martial arts itself; Many styles & opinions but mostly respectfulness with a restraint on the machismo. It gave me time to remember when I was solid as a rock without an ounce of fat. Hopefully, I, as you did, complimented my instructor by not offending, not looking for trouble, but showing confidence.

Deaf Smith · June 15, 2007, 06:35 PM

The belt ranks in TKD go something like this:

1s to 3ed black you are just a black belt.
4th you become an 'expert'.
5th or above a 'master'.

The belts do NOT mean you are some bad ass. Depending on the instuctor you may have to know all the forms up to your rank, 50 one step sparring techniques, 50 hapkido, use of the bo, some Korean, spar well with multiple opponents, and some board and brick breaking for extra points. The 5th black is a sign of experience.

Usually if you teach your own school you can handle yourself. At least you have better as there WILL be people showing up to try you. Almost always they are not good themselves but think they are good. You will have to fight for your school a few times, I can say that by having done it myself.

I started in Tang So Do. Got my red belt in that before TKD. My instructor, John Chu, as a very strict teacher. Not only in technique, but in respect in the dojo (unfortunatly he died of tumors while he was only 35.)

Other instructors I trained under (in TKD) were all no where near as strict as he was. As a result, when I had my own school, as 4th black, I taught like Chu did (and I still do where I'm at now.) We DIE in PT. If you don't sweat, you haven't trained. If you don't put in 110 percent, you havn't trained. If you don't train hard, you are not training. And spending alot of time taking is not training.

Over the years I have found that you get what you put into just about anything you do in life. And that's especialy true with the martial arts and shooting (and thus is why so far I'm a 4 gun expert in IDPA.. trying for master using a Glock 19!)

BunkerBuster · June 16, 2007, 02:17 AM

I took a lot of martial art when I was little. I took TaeKwonDo in Korea, and I absolutely did not like it. It is not because of the TKD, but how they teach. I dont know now, but back then, they beat the **** out of student. IF you don't believe me, watch the movie Best of the Best. jk

Choking with numchuck, kicking, hitting by Sa-bum (master), or Gwan-Jang was regular routine. Training for tournment and going to Kook Ki Won, was hell. In Korean TKD Dojang (DOJO), they typically teach you DangSooDo and Hapkido (korean version of aikido) as well. Some places also teaches you something called Taekyun (sp?, i dont know how it spells or what US dojo writes).

Anyways, latest martial art I've took was Kendo at a Univ. Good part about kendo is it really really really pushes people. A lot of japanese tradition stuff and etc. Bad part is that people do goto hospital from excessive training. Typically it was Bleeding feet. Some from missed Tsuki (neck stab). I mean, you go really at the opponent. HOwever, i dont think kendo is practical for defensive martial art.

Back to the topic. I think I am one of the guy who really do not believe that martial art is really really effective in self defense. It helps, but it ain't a UFC or 1 on 1 tournment. BG has knives. THey got all sorts of weapons. Imagine, some ninja wannabe who has 6th degree in all martial art try to hit a bad guy. Martial artist is beating the s*** out of the BG to stop him, and bad guy suddenly stab the martial artist...... Or bad guy go bang bang.

I think best defense is know your surrounding, and avoid those ego tripping "you wanna fight?/what are you gonna do about it?" crap. Try to limit yourself to going to all those dangerous places. Learn how to call 911 and be a good withness. IF all those fail, I recommand Pepperspray or your CCW as a last option. IMHO I would not risk my life by using 6th degree (whatever degree u are) martial arts to stop a bad guy.

Troy26 · June 16, 2007, 11:37 PM

What does anyone know about Krav Maga? All I know is that it's a hand-to-hand style practiced by Israele military, and that my local police department is adopting it now. There's a place not far from me that teaches it

Scribe · June 17, 2007, 03:06 AM

I did a lot of judo in my teens and have been a police officer (mostly urban uniform patrol) for 27 years in a country where we don't carry guns as general issue. Much of the official training I have had works very well in the gym and poorly on the street. This is because we only train twice a year. When I joined it was once a year. There are a lot of good methods out there but the key, in whatever method you choose, is practice. Samurai has a point with his signature 'Why is it that we fire 1,000 rounds and know that we need more practice, but yet we punch a bag 10 times and think we know how to fight?' From the point of view of police work you effectively have two fights to win. The brawl on the street and the debate in the court room, and the latter may be complicated by the way almost every passerby who stops to gawp will have a mobile phone with video capability.

I am 47 and frankly starting to creak a little. My kids, 10 and 8, have been doing Shotokan Karate for 2 years and enjoy it so much I started 6 months ago. I just my failed my yellow belt grading and frankly look forward all week to my training sessions.

My instructors teach that the first tool is awareness and make a very clear divide between the classical work and what will work on the street.
Whatever method you choose, provided it is street wise and trains with confrontation will stand you in good stead if you practice. You probably won't be Bruce Lee, but you will be fitter and better prepared. But make sure you can justify what you did when you are questioned about it later.

Deaf Smith · June 17, 2007, 02:16 PM

Troy,

Krav Maga is a very strait forward hands and feet method of combat. Nothing fancy but the moves are quite good. I have several books on the subject, been to a class or two, and we actaully use some of the SD methods in our TKD class (I'm not above stealing whatever works, as long as it works!)

It's approch is one of street self defense. No Kata, no fancy moves, but they do expect you to be fit. Actually I like it and I would be happy to become a level 3 in it but I sure can't take a month vacation and fly to California just to make the grade (which is what you have to do now to teach it.)

odsixer · June 17, 2007, 03:22 PM

I had a great time with Krav-maga until our school closed, it's a very effective to the point martial art(fighting system?) incorporating sparring as well as basic ground work(triangles, chokes, and armbars) as well as using any weapon available to you with real life training scenarios. I'm going to try some judo next. As has been said here try every one of them you can.

June 15, 2007, 05:38 PM	#53
Tanzer Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2007 Posts: 884	Samurai, I think we really agree, it's just the wording. When it comes to the bottom line, I agree totally. That's what the forum is about, and I guess the originator of this thread got to see how complicated (and hopefully how important) the decision making process is. This thread is like a microchasm of the martial arts itself; Many styles & opinions but mostly respectfulness with a restraint on the machismo. It gave me time to remember when I was solid as a rock without an ounce of fat. Hopefully, I, as you did, complimented my instructor by not offending, not looking for trouble, but showing confidence. __________________ Only the ignorant find ignorance to be bliss. Only those of us who know better will suffer from it.

June 15, 2007, 06:35 PM	#54
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	The belt ranks in TKD go something like this: 1s to 3ed black you are just a black belt. 4th you become an 'expert'. 5th or above a 'master'. The belts do NOT mean you are some bad ass. Depending on the instuctor you may have to know all the forms up to your rank, 50 one step sparring techniques, 50 hapkido, use of the bo, some Korean, spar well with multiple opponents, and some board and brick breaking for extra points. The 5th black is a sign of experience. Usually if you teach your own school you can handle yourself. At least you have better as there WILL be people showing up to try you. Almost always they are not good themselves but think they are good. You will have to fight for your school a few times, I can say that by having done it myself. I started in Tang So Do. Got my red belt in that before TKD. My instructor, John Chu, as a very strict teacher. Not only in technique, but in respect in the dojo (unfortunatly he died of tumors while he was only 35.) Other instructors I trained under (in TKD) were all no where near as strict as he was. As a result, when I had my own school, as 4th black, I taught like Chu did (and I still do where I'm at now.) We DIE in PT. If you don't sweat, you haven't trained. If you don't put in 110 percent, you havn't trained. If you don't train hard, you are not training. And spending alot of time taking is not training. Over the years I have found that you get what you put into just about anything you do in life. And that's especialy true with the martial arts and shooting (and thus is why so far I'm a 4 gun expert in IDPA.. trying for master using a Glock 19!) __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

June 16, 2007, 02:17 AM	#55
BunkerBuster Member Join Date: December 16, 2005 Posts: 20	I took a lot of martial art when I was little. I took TaeKwonDo in Korea, and I absolutely did not like it. It is not because of the TKD, but how they teach. I dont know now, but back then, they beat the ** out of student. IF you don't believe me, watch the movie Best of the Best. jk Choking with numchuck, kicking, hitting by Sa-bum (master), or Gwan-Jang was regular routine. Training for tournment and going to Kook Ki Won, was hell. In Korean TKD Dojang (DOJO), they typically teach you DangSooDo and Hapkido (korean version of aikido) as well. Some places also teaches you something called Taekyun (sp?, i dont know how it spells or what US dojo writes). Anyways, latest martial art I've took was Kendo at a Univ. Good part about kendo is it really really really pushes people. A lot of japanese tradition stuff and etc. Bad part is that people do goto hospital from excessive training. Typically it was Bleeding feet. Some from missed Tsuki (neck stab). I mean, you go really at the opponent. HOwever, i dont think kendo is practical for defensive martial art. Back to the topic. I think I am one of the guy who really do not believe that martial art is really really effective in self defense. It helps, but it ain't a UFC or 1 on 1 tournment. BG has knives. THey got all sorts of weapons. Imagine, some ninja wannabe who has 6th degree in all martial art try to hit a bad guy. Martial artist is beating the s* out of the BG to stop him, and bad guy suddenly stab the martial artist...... Or bad guy go bang bang. I think best defense is know your surrounding, and avoid those ego tripping "you wanna fight?/what are you gonna do about it?" crap. Try to limit yourself to going to all those dangerous places. Learn how to call 911 and be a good withness. IF all those fail, I recommand Pepperspray or your CCW as a last option. IMHO I would not risk my life by using 6th degree (whatever degree u are) martial arts to stop a bad guy. __________________ All guns are not created equal. -bunkerbuster People focus on investing, because they like to make money. I focus on making money, because I like to invest. -bunkerbuster

June 16, 2007, 11:37 PM	#56
Troy26 Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2006 Posts: 314	Krav Maga What does anyone know about Krav Maga? All I know is that it's a hand-to-hand style practiced by Israele military, and that my local police department is adopting it now. There's a place not far from me that teaches it

June 17, 2007, 02:16 PM	#58
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	Troy, Krav Maga is a very strait forward hands and feet method of combat. Nothing fancy but the moves are quite good. I have several books on the subject, been to a class or two, and we actaully use some of the SD methods in our TKD class (I'm not above stealing whatever works, as long as it works!) It's approch is one of street self defense. No Kata, no fancy moves, but they do expect you to be fit. Actually I like it and I would be happy to become a level 3 in it but I sure can't take a month vacation and fly to California just to make the grade (which is what you have to do now to teach it.) __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

June 15, 2007, 01:16 PM	#51
Agios Member Join Date: April 12, 2007 Posts: 34	One important point to remember is that a majority of sd situations happen quick and very often the perpertrator(s) depend on the element of surprise and count on striking first.

June 17, 2007, 03:06 AM	#57
Scribe Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2005 Location: England Posts: 249	I did a lot of judo in my teens and have been a police officer (mostly urban uniform patrol) for 27 years in a country where we don't carry guns as general issue. Much of the official training I have had works very well in the gym and poorly on the street. This is because we only train twice a year. When I joined it was once a year. There are a lot of good methods out there but the key, in whatever method you choose, is practice. Samurai has a point with his signature 'Why is it that we fire 1,000 rounds and know that we need more practice, but yet we punch a bag 10 times and think we know how to fight?' From the point of view of police work you effectively have two fights to win. The brawl on the street and the debate in the court room, and the latter may be complicated by the way almost every passerby who stops to gawp will have a mobile phone with video capability. I am 47 and frankly starting to creak a little. My kids, 10 and 8, have been doing Shotokan Karate for 2 years and enjoy it so much I started 6 months ago. I just my failed my yellow belt grading and frankly look forward all week to my training sessions. My instructors teach that the first tool is awareness and make a very clear divide between the classical work and what will work on the street. Whatever method you choose, provided it is street wise and trains with confrontation will stand you in good stead if you practice. You probably won't be Bruce Lee, but you will be fitter and better prepared. But make sure you can justify what you did when you are questioned about it later.

June 17, 2007, 03:22 PM	#59
odsixer Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2007 Location: great white north Posts: 316	I had a great time with Krav-maga until our school closed, it's a very effective to the point martial art(fighting system?) incorporating sparring as well as basic ground work(triangles, chokes, and armbars) as well as using any weapon available to you with real life training scenarios. I'm going to try some judo next. As has been said here try every one of them you can.