"selling" gun to brother

RampantAndroid · July 8, 2011, 06:49 PM

OK, so....I have my Glock 21, and now that I have some wheelguns, I want to sell the Glock...and my brother wants a self defense gun. I'm in WA, he is in PA. How do I ship it? What must I do?

Can I just USPS it to him? Or must an FFL be involved? How can I send my defense rounds to him?

I looked around online and didn't find much help, just some stuff about UPS rules due to thefts and whatnot.

Thanks!

dogtown tom · July 8, 2011, 07:29 PM

Quote:

RampantAndroid OK, so....I have my Glock 21, and now that I have some wheelguns, I want to sell the Glock...and my brother wants a self defense gun. I'm in WA, he is in PA. How do I ship it? What must I do?

Can I just USPS it to him? Or must an FFL be involved? How can I send my defense rounds to him?

I looked around online and didn't find much help, just some stuff about UPS rules due to thefts and whatnot.

Thanks!

To be compliant with Federal law you can only ship the firearm to a licensed dealer in Pennsylvania. If you ship it directly to your brother you both commit a Federal crime. Tell your brother to use the "Find a Transfer Dealer" search engine on GunBroker: http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/DealerNetwork.aspx
He should shop around as transfer fees vary greatly.

If you ship it yourself:
1. Make sure the receiving dealer is okay with a nonlicensee shipping the firearm...some aren't. Usually all the receiving dealer will require is a copy of your drivers license enclosed with the gun.

2. Only licensed dealers and manufacturers can mail a handgun through USPS....if you do it you commit a Federal crime. (Mere mortals can only mail rifles & shotguns via the USPS). Which means you must use a "common carrier" such as FedEx or UPS. Both require that you use Overnight or Next Day service.......which isn't cheap. If you choose to violate their shipping policies and ship it Ground you will get nada on a claim for lost, damaged or stolen package.

3. If you choose UPS you cannot just drop it off at the local UPS Store but must follow their procedures: http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res...ch_phr=handgun

If you choose FedEx you can drop it off at any FedEx Office location: http://fedex.com/us/service-guide/terms/index.html

Whoever you choose I highly recommend that you print out those policies and take them with you. Not every clerk is aware of every possible regulation and no matter what they tell you is "okay"......if it violates that written UPS/FedEx policy (called a tariff) you will be the loser.

Neither UPS or FedEx allow firearm shipments from a third party retailer (Mailboxes USA, Bob's Pak n Ship, etc)

4. The cheapest method would be for you to find a licensed dealer at your end who will mail it via USPS for you. For example, I charge $10 plus actual postage & insurance to mail a handgun USPS. If it fits in a USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate box my customers rarely pay more than $32 total. (vs $60 or more for FedEx/UPS). All you would need to provide to your local dealer is the FFL from the receiving dealer in PA.

JerryM · July 8, 2011, 07:34 PM

It must be transferred to him through a FFL in his state of residence. You can ship direct to the FFL, and do not have to go through a FFL in your state. You cannot ship through the Post Office, but a FFL can. You will have to ship by UPS or FedX. The last time I checked they require you to ship overnight express. Not sure what the cost is but it is high.

You cannot send ammo through the USPS, and will have to ship by FedX or UPS.

Get your brother to make arrangements with a FFL, and ship to that FFL. In a few cases I have heard that some FFLs will only accept guns from another FFL, but that is not the ATF requirement.
Jerry

RampantAndroid · July 8, 2011, 08:41 PM

OK, awesome - thank you so much for all the info!

What about the ammunition, is that allowed (UPS says separate package, so I assume a second ground package is OK?)

Edit: How will PA handle taxes? If I mark it as a gift (which it will be) will they charge tax, given sales tax already was charged in WA?

dogtown tom · July 8, 2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

RampantAndroid OK, awesome - thank you so much for all the info!

What about the ammunition, is that allowed (UPS says separate package, so I assume a second ground package is OK?)

Edit: How will PA handle taxes? If I mark it as a gift (which it will be) will they charge tax, given sales tax already was charged in WA?

Federal law requires that ammunition be shipped separately from a firearm. Ammunition can only go "Ground" via a common carrier. You must label it with an "ORM-D" label. Google "ORM-D" and you'll find plenty of labels you can print out. Ammo is heavy....make sure it isn't costing you more to ship than what it's worth.

You mention that it would be your "second ground package"......be darned sure that you want to ignore the policies of UPS and FedEx. As many packages that arrive with visible damage I would never ship without full value insurance. You ship a handgun Ground you'll get nothing.

Except for WA gun dealers do not collect sales tax on out of state purchases.

wally626 · July 8, 2011, 09:45 PM

Ammo has to be shipped separate from the gun and the packages marked ORM-D, Cartridges, Small Arms. Stuff I have received has been shipped ground, but I do not know if that is a requirement.

MLeake · July 9, 2011, 12:37 AM

There's a limit on the weight of ammo that can be shipped on an aircraft; IIRC that limit is 5kg, assuming dual use of the aircraft for passengers and cargo. You can look it up in (I believe) 18CFR if you wish.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 9, 2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RampantAndroid

Edit: How will PA handle taxes? If I mark it as a gift (which it will be) will they charge tax, given sales tax already was charged in WA?

Is this a sale, or a gift? If it is a gift, as you state in the post I quoted, why does the title of the thread say "selling" (in quotes by you)?

If it is a gift, PA should not charge any tax. If you send your brother a wrist watch for his birthday, does PA collect a tax?

RampantAndroid · July 11, 2011, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Is this a sale, or a gift? If it is a gift, as you state in the post I quoted, why does the title of the thread say "selling" (in quotes by you)?

If it is a gift, PA should not charge any tax. If you send your brother a wrist watch for his birthday, does PA collect a tax?

Naming aside, it's a gift. I titled it because I wanted to know w hat the requirements for a sale were.

I said second ground package, when I should have said second, ground package (a second package to go by ground.)

Thanks for all the answers!

July 8, 2011, 06:49 PM	#1
RampantAndroid Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2011 Posts: 231	"selling" gun to brother OK, so....I have my Glock 21, and now that I have some wheelguns, I want to sell the Glock...and my brother wants a self defense gun. I'm in WA, he is in PA. How do I ship it? What must I do? Can I just USPS it to him? Or must an FFL be involved? How can I send my defense rounds to him? I looked around online and didn't find much help, just some stuff about UPS rules due to thefts and whatnot. Thanks!

July 8, 2011, 07:34 PM	#3
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	It must be transferred to him through a FFL in his state of residence. You can ship direct to the FFL, and do not have to go through a FFL in your state. You cannot ship through the Post Office, but a FFL can. You will have to ship by UPS or FedX. The last time I checked they require you to ship overnight express. Not sure what the cost is but it is high. You cannot send ammo through the USPS, and will have to ship by FedX or UPS. Get your brother to make arrangements with a FFL, and ship to that FFL. In a few cases I have heard that some FFLs will only accept guns from another FFL, but that is not the ATF requirement. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

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July 8, 2011, 08:41 PM	#4
RampantAndroid Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2011 Posts: 231	OK, awesome - thank you so much for all the info! What about the ammunition, is that allowed (UPS says separate package, so I assume a second ground package is OK?) Edit: How will PA handle taxes? If I mark it as a gift (which it will be) will they charge tax, given sales tax already was charged in WA?

July 8, 2011, 09:45 PM	#6
wally626 Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2009 Posts: 642	Ammo has to be shipped separate from the gun and the packages marked ORM-D, Cartridges, Small Arms. Stuff I have received has been shipped ground, but I do not know if that is a requirement.

July 9, 2011, 12:37 AM	#7
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	There's a limit on the weight of ammo that can be shipped on an aircraft; IIRC that limit is 5kg, assuming dual use of the aircraft for passengers and cargo. You can look it up in (I believe) 18CFR if you wish.