223 on deer

Sarge · November 27, 2009, 01:00 PM

I'm going to assume that anybody reading or posting in this forum isn't going to be horrified by a pic of a blown-up deer heart. If I'm wrong, mods- delete and accept my apology.

I killed a little 125 pound button buck this morning with my Mini 14 Ranch Rifle, which is a 580 Series with the accuracy improvements. I used a handload with Winchester's bulk 55 grain softpoint; a plain jane, el cheapo bullet. I run it about 2850 fps over H4895 powder in Lake City brass. I am happy with this velocity as it groups well at 200 yards, where the irons are zeroed, and I felt it more likely to give adequate penetration on deer at that speed. It also nearly matches the trajectory of the ‘house’ 30-06 load, which simplifies shooting at distance.

The button was just a meat deer and I shot him at 170 yards per the measuring tool on ‘Google Earth’, which also shows a near-exact 205 yards to my target frame. When I first saw the little booger he was laid up in tall grass and absent a rest, I shot a tad high when I tried to spine him. He then stood up and ran a little ways before showing his shoulder, where I sent the second shot. That one was good and he stumbled off 15 yards and dropped.

The bullet broke the near shoulder, blew a 2 ½”hole in his heart and exited the off-side ribs.

I don’t know what more you could ask of a .223 or a game load in general. I’ve seen a 150 pound doe saunter off 25 yard & jump a 5 strand fence, with her heart blown out by a 30-06.

What I do know is that I need to work on my off-hand rifle shooting. I do hate to miss- even once.

James R. Burke · November 27, 2009, 07:33 PM

I think your key words are off hand. Were we hunt they are all off hand, not much time fairly close. So you need to deciede fast, and make a good shot. They are close most of the time. No doubt that was a very nice shot even thought I think a .223 is alittle light for deer you proved what it can do if done correct. Nice shot!

Sarge · November 27, 2009, 09:02 PM

Thanks, James. I had just cleaned up the trigger on this rifle a couple of days ago, or I would have never tried that offhand. Usually I can get set up where I can at least shoot from sitting, using a sling and one knee for stability.

I had been watching three deer, which I thought were all does, for a couple of days. They'd lay up in the far corner of the place (nearest the neighbors) and I'd see 'em in the mornings but couldn't arrange a safe shot. This little feller wandered off on an adventure this morning, offered a safe shot but the doggone underbrush was too high so it was 'hind legs' or nothing.

Brian Pfleuger · November 27, 2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarge

I killed a little 125 pound button buck this morning

Is that a measured weight?! We have shot 3 deer this year that had to be weighed at DEC check points because we are hunting as part of a research project. One was a 3 1/5 year old doe weighing 118lbs, one a 4 1/5 year old doe weighing 102 pounds and another 3 1/2 year old doe weighing 102 pounds.

This guy, a 2 1/2 year old 9-point, taken by another hunter weighed 120 pounds.

We're in central NY. Deer are not exactly small here.

Sarge · November 27, 2009, 09:48 PM

We grow 'em big here, Pete....no, the weight was an estimate. I had to drag the little monster uphill, through prairie grass/buckbrush for the whole 170 yards. He may have gained 25 pounds by the time I pulled him up the ramp & onto the pickup

He was a little better than half as big as this ol' boy from 2007, who I couldn't begin to raise on a 1:1 pulley by hauling myself up the rope; I weighed 215 at the time.

Brian Pfleuger · November 27, 2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarge

We grow 'em big here, Pete....

I guess you do!

This guy is a MONSTER around here, and we grow 'em bigger than most. He's 3 1/2 and 193 pounds.

I have found that most people have NEVER known an actual verified weight on a deer. A big buck is "225" and a big doe is "150". Problem is, everyone is basing their numbers of someone's deer that they saw last year that was "150" so they figure "Well, mine's bigger'n his... must be 175." In reality, "his" was 115 and "mine" is 130.

TX Nimrod · November 27, 2009, 11:35 PM

One Fall I took my CAR-15 to Kodiak Island for Sitka blacktail, a 60-grain Nosler Solid Base loaded to 2800 fps. Shot five deer with six shots, longest shot about 150 yards. The first deer didn't react to the shot so I hit him again, then he fell over. The rest I shot and waited from three to ten seconds before they fell over. All were good lethal hits, I only recovered one bullet. The shot reaction was too slow IMO, although the terrain made it tough to lose a wounded deer if I'd had one. Kodiak had a limit of seven that year, lots of deer so I only took shots that were literally perfect - I passed up at least a dozen deer which had poor presentations.

I consider that a stunt and would not do it again. It was years ago when I knew no better......now I do.

.

bswiv · November 28, 2009, 04:24 AM

While I'll admit that like most folks I'm a little wary of a .223 for deer it does seem that for a lot of guys it works good. Of course I also hear detractors on the .243 as deer/hog suitable but I've seen the wife take 20 or more in the last few years without a problem. And some of the hogs were well over 200 pounds, even though our FL deer run on the small side.

Cuerious, as I have a Mini-14 coming. How much of a difference did the "accurizing" make?

GeauxTide · November 28, 2009, 08:55 PM

Impressive, but I'm gonna hunt deer with a minimum of .260 Rem.

DiscoRacing · November 28, 2009, 09:01 PM

Im actually thinking of taking my new .223 next year... but would use nothing smaller than the 69grain hp bullets that I have... thats a pretty good chunk a lead for a .223

bamaranger · November 29, 2009, 02:46 AM

My boy has killed several w/ .223 and 55 or 62 gr bonded bullets. Same results, but I'm picky about when he shoots, ie distance and angle. He's shooting something bigger now, but w/ placement, it works. Super shot, BTW.

Peetza, gotta agree, lots of folks get deer weights wrong. Our club weighed everything for 10-12 years for we lost it, and guys invariably guessed their deer heavy. Also I have assisted at the check stations some. A intact mature deer might go 125 here. Field dressed, many won't be much over 100. A monster buck, 4 1/2- 5 1/2 years, will go 175-185 live. Seldom much more. 200 is an absolute MONSTER. No agriculture to speak of, ie beans and corn. Just browse and mast when its a good year.

Al57 · November 29, 2009, 10:28 AM

Actual live weight of deer will and does depend greatly upon region. What is considered big in one won't be in another . Those 3 1/2 & 4 1/2 y/o does that weighed 102-118 in NY would weigh at least 40 -50 lbs heavier on average here in Nebraska . A 2 1/2 y/o buck that weighed 120 lbs would be a sick one here and that 193 lb " monster " would be a very average weight buck here. True monsters here will go 250 and above on the hoof . My heaviest buck to date FIELD DRESSED 210 lbs. Live weight on him would have been right at 240-245 . A buddy shot one that field dressed 225 this fall . I do not say this to look down on anyone's deer or area they hunt in. It's just a fact of life. In turn, I acknowledge that in parts of Canada, they take bucks a lot heavier than ours.

Water-Man · November 29, 2009, 10:35 AM

Al57...You've got your info wrong. Deer in NY go large, not small.

Al57 · November 29, 2009, 11:25 AM

Water-man, while I didn't say deer in NY were small, based on the weights the fellow in NY reported on ( his words and numbers, not mine ) that region does seem to grow deer smaller than many areas further west in large agricultural areas.

sc928porsche · November 29, 2009, 01:09 PM

Had it been a 300WM, there wouldnt have been any heart to examine.

williamd · November 29, 2009, 01:28 PM

Took a good sized muley with a 22lr once. Looking at me and the shot was between the eyes at 30-35 yards. Dropped like a rock. Much like and impact gun at the slaughter house. Smart - no! But, I do not use any 22 - rf or cf - on deer. I even stay away from 243/6mm most of the time. Personal thing.

In fact, let me pull a string ... I consider the 243/6mm family an in between round, too heavy for varmints, too light for deer. Basically, an oil can round.

Art Eatman · November 29, 2009, 07:31 PM

I merely note in passing that this is among the most beat-on horses on the whole Internet.

Sarge · November 29, 2009, 09:26 PM

Noted, Art. My only purpose was to show some actual results of what that horse will do, in-harness. That said, the thread my well have run its course. Button her down at your discretion.

rdsii64 · December 6, 2009, 07:11 PM

A well placed heart shot will drop an animal with scary effectiveness. Some will take a few steps, some will just fold up and fall. I personally don't hunt anything larger than a coyote with a .223. The margin for error is to small for my self imposed feel good factor. For deer I prefer a good old fashioned .308 winchester but if I had to hunt deer with a .22 center fire I would opt for a .22-250 with a fast twist barrel and the 75 grain hornaday amax bullet. All that aside you have meat in the freezer. good job!

andrew66 · December 6, 2009, 07:24 PM

U ruined the best part! lol good shot though. I have seen alot of deer shot there with smaller guns, some ran a long time before dropping. Shot placement is everything, but unfortunately in the field, an opportunity for a "perfect shot" can be rare. Kinda why i bought my 7mm. inside 300 yards, anywhere in the rib cage, and the deer is dropping. If u feel comfortable shooting that caliber and its legal in your area, then all the power to ya. In my GHA they state that anything smaller than .24 isnt recommended but can be used.

94bluerat · December 6, 2009, 07:43 PM

Deer weights are an interesting thing. We ran a check station in MD for many years. We checked in 1200 deer per year and put most of them on a scale. Many times I was told my scale was wrong since "it has to weigh more than that". This was usually verified by asking the person what they weighed and then having them step on the scale!

Cheers!

PRONE2 · December 7, 2009, 12:33 PM

The wife and I took 4 deer 2 hogs in the last 3 weeks with the old AR and 64gr pp! bang flop dead!!!

treefarmernc · December 7, 2009, 01:00 PM

Nice Shot!

Brian Pfleuger · December 7, 2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al57

A 2 1/2 y/o buck that weighed 120 lbs would be a sick one here and that 193 lb " monster " would be a very average weight buck here. True monsters here will go 250 and above on the hoof . My heaviest buck to date FIELD DRESSED 210 lbs. Live weight on him would have been right at 240-245 .

I am talking field-dressed weights here. So the biggest deer you've ever taken was 17 pounds bigger than the one I posted? That doesn't sound like any significant difference to me. That deer would have been 225 ,or better, live. Within 25 pounds or so of your monsters. NY state deer, on average, are among the largest deer in the US. Yes, we have small ones that don't have good forage around, and we have TRUE, indisputable monsters that approach 300 pounds live weight but neither is the norm. On average, they're bigger than the average of most other states.

To keep in line with the OP, a 223 is plenty enough for NY deer too, although I'd prefer a 7mm-08.

5R milspec · December 11, 2009, 01:35 PM

hello I am new to the site.but my 223 likes to take out a deer.longest shot was 150 yards in the head just behind her ears.and the little 55g NBT did its job flop dead.but for one to think about is that a rock going 2700 -3300 fps will even kill a deer when placed right.but hey this is just my opinion.

November 27, 2009, 01:00 PM	#1
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	223 on deer I'm going to assume that anybody reading or posting in this forum isn't going to be horrified by a pic of a blown-up deer heart. If I'm wrong, mods- delete and accept my apology. I killed a little 125 pound button buck this morning with my Mini 14 Ranch Rifle, which is a 580 Series with the accuracy improvements. I used a handload with Winchester's bulk 55 grain softpoint; a plain jane, el cheapo bullet. I run it about 2850 fps over H4895 powder in Lake City brass. I am happy with this velocity as it groups well at 200 yards, where the irons are zeroed, and I felt it more likely to give adequate penetration on deer at that speed. It also nearly matches the trajectory of the ‘house’ 30-06 load, which simplifies shooting at distance. The button was just a meat deer and I shot him at 170 yards per the measuring tool on ‘Google Earth’, which also shows a near-exact 205 yards to my target frame. When I first saw the little booger he was laid up in tall grass and absent a rest, I shot a tad high when I tried to spine him. He then stood up and ran a little ways before showing his shoulder, where I sent the second shot. That one was good and he stumbled off 15 yards and dropped. The bullet broke the near shoulder, blew a 2 ½”hole in his heart and exited the off-side ribs. I don’t know what more you could ask of a .223 or a game load in general. I’ve seen a 150 pound doe saunter off 25 yard & jump a 5 strand fence, with her heart blown out by a 30-06. What I do know is that I need to work on my off-hand rifle shooting. I do hate to miss- even once. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

November 27, 2009, 09:02 PM	#3
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Thanks, James. I had just cleaned up the trigger on this rifle a couple of days ago, or I would have never tried that offhand. Usually I can get set up where I can at least shoot from sitting, using a sling and one knee for stability. I had been watching three deer, which I thought were all does, for a couple of days. They'd lay up in the far corner of the place (nearest the neighbors) and I'd see 'em in the mornings but couldn't arrange a safe shot. This little feller wandered off on an adventure this morning, offered a safe shot but the doggone underbrush was too high so it was 'hind legs' or nothing. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

November 27, 2009, 09:48 PM	#5
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	We grow 'em big here, Pete....no, the weight was an estimate. I had to drag the little monster uphill, through prairie grass/buckbrush for the whole 170 yards. He may have gained 25 pounds by the time I pulled him up the ramp & onto the pickup He was a little better than half as big as this ol' boy from 2007, who I couldn't begin to raise on a 1:1 pulley by hauling myself up the rope; I weighed 215 at the time. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

November 29, 2009, 02:46 AM	#11
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,312	223/deer weights My boy has killed several w/ .223 and 55 or 62 gr bonded bullets. Same results, but I'm picky about when he shoots, ie distance and angle. He's shooting something bigger now, but w/ placement, it works. Super shot, BTW. Peetza, gotta agree, lots of folks get deer weights wrong. Our club weighed everything for 10-12 years for we lost it, and guys invariably guessed their deer heavy. Also I have assisted at the check stations some. A intact mature deer might go 125 here. Field dressed, many won't be much over 100. A monster buck, 4 1/2- 5 1/2 years, will go 175-185 live. Seldom much more. 200 is an absolute MONSTER. No agriculture to speak of, ie beans and corn. Just browse and mast when its a good year.

November 29, 2009, 01:09 PM	#15
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	Had it been a 300WM, there wouldnt have been any heart to examine. __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

November 27, 2009, 07:33 PM	#2
James R. Burke Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: U.P. of Mich/Quinnesec Posts: 1,897	I think your key words are off hand. Were we hunt they are all off hand, not much time fairly close. So you need to deciede fast, and make a good shot. They are close most of the time. No doubt that was a very nice shot even thought I think a .223 is alittle light for deer you proved what it can do if done correct. Nice shot!

November 27, 2009, 11:35 PM	#7
TX Nimrod Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2009 Location: Zona Posts: 423	One Fall I took my CAR-15 to Kodiak Island for Sitka blacktail, a 60-grain Nosler Solid Base loaded to 2800 fps. Shot five deer with six shots, longest shot about 150 yards. The first deer didn't react to the shot so I hit him again, then he fell over. The rest I shot and waited from three to ten seconds before they fell over. All were good lethal hits, I only recovered one bullet. The shot reaction was too slow IMO, although the terrain made it tough to lose a wounded deer if I'd had one. Kodiak had a limit of seven that year, lots of deer so I only took shots that were literally perfect - I passed up at least a dozen deer which had poor presentations. I consider that a stunt and would not do it again. It was years ago when I knew no better......now I do. .

November 28, 2009, 04:24 AM	#8
bswiv Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: NE FL....... Posts: 1,081	While I'll admit that like most folks I'm a little wary of a .223 for deer it does seem that for a lot of guys it works good. Of course I also hear detractors on the .243 as deer/hog suitable but I've seen the wife take 20 or more in the last few years without a problem. And some of the hogs were well over 200 pounds, even though our FL deer run on the small side. Cuerious, as I have a Mini-14 coming. How much of a difference did the "accurizing" make?

November 28, 2009, 08:55 PM	#9
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	Impressive, but I'm gonna hunt deer with a minimum of .260 Rem.

November 28, 2009, 09:01 PM	#10
DiscoRacing Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: milton, wv Posts: 3,640	Im actually thinking of taking my new .223 next year... but would use nothing smaller than the 69grain hp bullets that I have... thats a pretty good chunk a lead for a .223

November 29, 2009, 10:28 AM	#12
Al57 Member Join Date: December 5, 2006 Location: Nebraska Posts: 69	Actual live weight of deer will and does depend greatly upon region. What is considered big in one won't be in another . Those 3 1/2 & 4 1/2 y/o does that weighed 102-118 in NY would weigh at least 40 -50 lbs heavier on average here in Nebraska . A 2 1/2 y/o buck that weighed 120 lbs would be a sick one here and that 193 lb " monster " would be a very average weight buck here. True monsters here will go 250 and above on the hoof . My heaviest buck to date FIELD DRESSED 210 lbs. Live weight on him would have been right at 240-245 . A buddy shot one that field dressed 225 this fall . I do not say this to look down on anyone's deer or area they hunt in. It's just a fact of life. In turn, I acknowledge that in parts of Canada, they take bucks a lot heavier than ours.

November 29, 2009, 10:35 AM	#13
Water-Man Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 2,126	Al57...You've got your info wrong. Deer in NY go large, not small.

November 29, 2009, 11:25 AM	#14
Al57 Member Join Date: December 5, 2006 Location: Nebraska Posts: 69	Water-man, while I didn't say deer in NY were small, based on the weights the fellow in NY reported on ( his words and numbers, not mine ) that region does seem to grow deer smaller than many areas further west in large agricultural areas.

November 29, 2009, 01:28 PM	#16
williamd Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2007 Location: SoCal Posts: 801	Took a good sized muley with a 22lr once. Looking at me and the shot was between the eyes at 30-35 yards. Dropped like a rock. Much like and impact gun at the slaughter house. Smart - no! But, I do not use any 22 - rf or cf - on deer. I even stay away from 243/6mm most of the time. Personal thing. In fact, let me pull a string ... I consider the 243/6mm family an in between round, too heavy for varmints, too light for deer. Basically, an oil can round. __________________ "Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns!" Unfortunately, we may be moving in that direction. NRA Benefactor, Conservative!, VN '64-'65. Never sell a gun or a car ... and retire rich!

November 29, 2009, 07:31 PM	#17
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I merely note in passing that this is among the most beat-on horses on the whole Internet.

November 29, 2009, 09:26 PM	#18
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Noted, Art. My only purpose was to show some actual results of what that horse will do, in-harness. That said, the thread my well have run its course. Button her down at your discretion. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

December 6, 2009, 07:11 PM	#19
rdsii64 Member Join Date: November 28, 2008 Posts: 52	good shooting A well placed heart shot will drop an animal with scary effectiveness. Some will take a few steps, some will just fold up and fall. I personally don't hunt anything larger than a coyote with a .223. The margin for error is to small for my self imposed feel good factor. For deer I prefer a good old fashioned .308 winchester but if I had to hunt deer with a .22 center fire I would opt for a .22-250 with a fast twist barrel and the 75 grain hornaday amax bullet. All that aside you have meat in the freezer. good job! __________________ Howa M1500 - .308 Bell and Carlson A2 Stock harris bipod Friends don't let friends buy Nikko Sterling Scopes

December 6, 2009, 07:24 PM	#20
andrew66 Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: canada Posts: 74	U ruined the best part! lol good shot though. I have seen alot of deer shot there with smaller guns, some ran a long time before dropping. Shot placement is everything, but unfortunately in the field, an opportunity for a "perfect shot" can be rare. Kinda why i bought my 7mm. inside 300 yards, anywhere in the rib cage, and the deer is dropping. If u feel comfortable shooting that caliber and its legal in your area, then all the power to ya. In my GHA they state that anything smaller than .24 isnt recommended but can be used.

December 6, 2009, 07:43 PM	#21
94bluerat Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2007 Location: South of Canada Posts: 204	Deer weights are an interesting thing. We ran a check station in MD for many years. We checked in 1200 deer per year and put most of them on a scale. Many times I was told my scale was wrong since "it has to weigh more than that". This was usually verified by asking the person what they weighed and then having them step on the scale! Cheers! __________________ "Got a shotgun, a rifle and a four wheel drive" - HW Jr. Rifleman BSA Eagle Scout

December 7, 2009, 12:33 PM	#22
PRONE2 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2009 Location: St.Louis Mo. Posts: 113	64 win pp The wife and I took 4 deer 2 hogs in the last 3 weeks with the old AR and 64gr pp! bang flop dead!!!

December 7, 2009, 01:00 PM	#23
treefarmernc Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2009 Posts: 186	Nice Shot! __________________ The mightiest oak in the forest was once only a little nut that stuck its ground.

December 11, 2009, 01:35 PM	#25
5R milspec Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 360	223/deer hello I am new to the site.but my 223 likes to take out a deer.longest shot was 150 yards in the head just behind her ears.and the little 55g NBT did its job flop dead.but for one to think about is that a rock going 2700 -3300 fps will even kill a deer when placed right.but hey this is just my opinion.