40 S & W Reloading!!

[tenn_man75]

Hello, I am new to this board and New to the world of Reloading and hoping that some of you could give me some Advice on what to do and not to do. I want to keep it all safe thats why I am here hoping that some of you can help me.

Ok here is where I am at right now. I loaded some .40 S&W rounds. Hornady 155 grain bullet with 10 grains of Blue Dot Powder. Why blue dot well we have it and want to use it up. I have heard it was a dirty powder. So to let you know what I have heard already. Ok back to the loading. I shot these loads and well they packed a punch but was wild as a buck, shooting really I mean really low. I have a loading manual and the Max of Blue dot was 12 grains so I loaded them at 10. Ok some one told me to load them lighter and Well I haven't try it yet but plan on it this weekend. So what I am asking is what do you recommend to load a 155 at. Plus I purchased (without knowing) a box of Nosler 135 grain bullets thinking lighter the bullet more it would rise, But heard a 165 was a better round. I have 250 of them on the way and might as well use them up. How would someone load them that has loaded them and they be accurate. That is what I am going for is accuracy. I am shooting them out of a Smith and Wessen 4" barrel. I know this was long but I need the help if there is anyone that can. I would greatly appreciate it.

Plus when I bought my dies for my 40 they sold me some Hodgdon long shot powder to use but I can't find any loading info on it. The book I have doesn't say anything about that powder. I haven't opened it yet cause I don't know nothing about it.

[Ruger45LC]

Go to hodgdon's website for info on the longshot powder...I think you'll be pleasantly surprised

[J.D.B.]

Okay, let's see, Generally the faster bullet will shoot lower. To raise the point of impact on that Blue Dot load, back it down. How did you buy the Noslers without knowing it? They are excellent bullets, by the way. If you are going for pure target accuracy, I suggest starting at the lower (slower) end of the data. Maybe a half grain above minimum. I like to pick a velocity and "bracket" around it, usually by .2 of a grain. This allows me to see which way to go with subsequent test lots and really zero-in on a loading. You posted you are using an S&W 4" barrel. Which gun, auto or revolver? I have lately loaded a case of "plate" rounds in .40 S&W to be fired through a 4" 610 revolver. They are very accurate in that gun. The load is 5.1 Win.#231 under a National 155gr. LSW, O.A.L. of 1.125 with a light taper crimp. This was the tested-best loading of a test group that started at 4.9gr. and went to 5.5gr. by .2gr increments. For an auto, the most accurate loading of a given bullet is, (in my experience) that which is just above "barely cycling" the action. Glocks are the exception for me as they like to be just a bit warmer than that for good accuracy. Take it slow and enjoy the journey.
Josh

[tenn_man75]

It is a Auto S&W .40. An what I said about not knowing was that someone told me that a 135 wasn't a good grain bullet. Not Nosler it self. Just the weight. They said that the 165 was a better weight. I don't know for sure. Thats why I am here.

[tenn_man75]

BULLET POWDER GR VEL CUP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

40 S&W
CASE: HORNADY

BBL: 4"
PR: WINCHESTER SP



135 GR. NOS JHP
COL: 1.125"

HS-6 10.2 1321 33,600 PSI
UNIVERSAL 7.5 1324 32,500 PSI
HP-38 7.0 1244 33,100 PSI
TITEGROUP 6.4 1251 33,200 PSI
CLAYS 4.5 1071 32,900 PSI

Ok this is from http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/40sw.php

Ok I don't see where it says to use the Hodgdon Long shot. On the bottel it says for a shot gun. Ok that is a little confusing to me can you also use it in a pistol? Thats what the store said to use. Is the HS-6 mean Hodgdon Long shot?

[J.D.B.]

Wow, thats fast! I load the Nosler 135 JHP around 1100 fps in target level for 10mm. I'll bet those are really roaring when you touch them off. Do you have any reloading manuals? If not, by all means get one (or more) and read them. I don't advise starting load development near the top of the scale. You mentioned you want to stay safe. Loads should be worked UP to, slowly, checking for signs of over-pressure. An unsafe pressure condition can cause disaster in less than the blink of an eye. If you are looking for an accurate, high-velocity round, you can start in the middle of the scale and work UP. An accurate target (to 25yds.) round should start at the lower end as I mentioned above. Take it slow to be safer. Going by "what someone told you" is not what I would call safe practice. Get a book and read it so you will understand for yourself what is going on with your loads and what is or isn't a "good bullet" for you. The bullet is to be matched to its purpose, thats why there are choices of weight and construction for them. BTW, HS-6 is NOT Long Shot. BE SAFE. Get a manual. It will explain the history of reloading and why shot-shell powders are often used in handgun loadings. Did I mention BE SAFE?
Josh

[tenn_man75]

See I am using the blue dot powder because I have Data on it in my manual. Thats why I was concerned about using the long shot cause I have no data. Thats the only data I can find on Hodgdon and it doesn't even say anything about long shot in loading a .40 S&W. I was wondering if anyone had the data on it or has used it.

[J.D.B.]

What manual are you using? If it's one of those free data pamphlets, that's not the place to start learning. Trust me on this, a good manual (that is read), is truly worthwhile. I understand why you are using the Blue dot. Why not stick with it for a bit? It may be dirty, but it is a good powder (mostly for "magnum" pressures as it is a "slow" handgun powder, more suited to heavy bullets in .40 S&W). I don't want to see you learn the "hard way" about reloading. Smith and Wesson's are well built, but they, too, can break. Please slow down. I know you are new but a slow approach will more than likely lead to many more years of shooting enjoyment. I have been doing this for many years now and still have both eyes, both hands, with ten fingers. Safety is #1 in this game and it starts with a good manual and a slow approach. Speed will come in time (if it needs to at all). I suggest the Speer manual or the two volume Hornady manual. I also like the Lyman manual, too. They all have an extensive section on the why's and wherefore's of handloading that should be well understood for maximum safety and enjoyment. I'm not trying to talk down to you. I'd like to read about your future successes here. This hobby is very rewarding and enjoyable if care is excercised, otherwise, well, you can probably guess. BE SAFE, SLOW DOWN.
Josh

[tenn_man75]

Yes I bought a Manual from Cabelas on the .40 S&W. It is only on it. That I did do before I started reloading. Thats where I got the info on the blue dot at 10grns load. The max it said was 12gr so We started at 10 which I see now I should have started at the lowest an worked my way up.. I am going to stick with the blue dot for now. But I have a full lb of the Other and if I don't need it I was going to sell it and buy when I ran out of the blue dot what I needed to use. WHich will probably be 2000 rounds from now or more. Like you said I want to be safe about this. Thats why all the questions. Most of you have learned from Trial and error and I want to do it the right way. I surely don't want to hurt myself or someone else.

[J.D.B.]

Cool. I have a couple of those caliber specific books, too. Good for cross-referencing. If you want, P.M. me your adress and I'll ship you my Speer #12 manual. Yes, I know they are up to #13 now (for about eleven years so far). The section with all the deep info. on handloading is still current though, and highly recommended for a beginner. What do say? I'd feel better knowing you have some good info. on the whys and wherefores.
Josh

[tenn_man75]

Thanks. I would really appreciate it. I sent you a PM.

[HSMITH]

Be careful with Blue Dot. Take your reloads and hold them by the case and push them down into your bathroom scale. Apply 50 pounds of pressure and measure the OAL again. If it moved more than a thousandth pull them all down.

Blue Dot is a good powder, but it isn't forgiving at all. When pressure reaches a certain point it's behavior changes. Load too light and it will be inconsistent and dirty. Load too heavy or reduce OAL and it can spike pressure dramatically, that is why you push them down on the scale. If a bullet hits the feedramp and is pushed back into the case (setback) pressure will increase, if it sets back far enough pressure will increase to the point where the case/barrel/whatever can't contain it. Make SURE you stay within published data with Blue Dot and make SURE setback isn't going to happen with your reloads.

I don't mean to scare you, or to get you to stop using Blue Dot. I use it, and like it. I just wanted you to be aware of something I haven't seen printed in any manual anywhere that could be harmful.

[Powderman]

Blue Dot is a good powder, but just a tad on the slow side for .40. I do like it, though.

My two powders of choice for .40 are Alliant Herco and Power Pistol. I haven't chronographed either of them, but I use 6.8 grains of either for the 155 grain bullet, seated at factory OAL with a good tight taper crimp. They work great from my G22, don't bulge cases at all, and will shoot nice tight groups at 25 yards.

[joshua]

I like the 180 grain bullets for the 40. I use Winchester WSF and Tite Group. If I was to use it for defense 180 will be my choice, it can be pushed over 1000fps. 165s will give you more hydrastatic shock effect though. josh

[tenn_man75]

Ok this may sound stupid to yall but I need to know exactly what you mean when you say that if it moves more than a thousandth pull them down. What do you mean by pull them down?

[J.D.B.]

He means you should not fire them and take them apart. I disagree. After setting your crimp, take a few and hold them at the base, pushing them with decent force against your bench. Fifty pounds? I don't think so. You'd have to crimp pretty hard to hold it at fifty pounds. I generally push them so I lean a bit on them , maybe fifteen pounds. You want to crimp them enough to keep the bullet from sinking further into the case. If they do move, you can back them out of the case with a kinetic bullet puller (the hammer type), measure, reseat, and crimp a bit more. Then you can check them again. I believe this is described in the manual coming your way. (Its on page #441 of the #13 manual, so its close in the #12.) In an auto, the action of feeding into the barrel can push a lightly crimped bullet further into the case. If it goes far enough you can get to dangerous pressures quickly. Don't panic.
Josh

[Ruger45LC]

Well I don't see it either. These loads (135gr & 155gr) are from the Hodgdon 2004 Manual.

(Max published loads)

40 S&W
CASE: HORNADY

BBL: 4"
PR: WINCHESTER SP

135 GR. NOS JHP
COL: 1.125"

LONGSHOT - 12.0 1480 FPS 32,400 PSI

40 S&W
CASE: HORNADY

BBL: 4"
PR: WINCHESTER SP

155 GR. HDY XTP
COL: 1.125"

LONGSHOT - 10.0 1330 FPS 32,300 PSI

[Powderman]

Tenn_man75, I highly suggest that you get a bullet puller. Think of this as the eraser of the reloading bench. Sooner, you WILL make a mistake. It's just human nature. Why chuck the whole round when you can salvage it?

The most common ones look like a plastic hammer. You unscrew one end, slip the bullet in, put the top back on and whack the opposite end against a hard surface. Depending on the crimp you apply, this might take three or four whacks.

TIP: Get a small thick metal plate, and glue it to the top corner of your bench. When you use the puller, whack this--you'll be all day if you use the wooden surface.

[HSMITH]

Tenn, by pull down I do mean to take them apart and start over. I completely disagree about crimping tighter to help prevent setback, every bit of protection you will ever get from setback is done in the sizing die. Crimping tighter will only INCREASE the chances of setback. When crimping 40 take the bell out of the case that you put in before seating the bullet and that is all.

I use 50 pounds, that way I KNOW darn good and well I won't have setback and I won't blow up a gun. Setting up your process to hold 50 pounds of force is easy to do, requires no extra steps, and just makes sense. The easy 'no-brainer' method of doing this is to use a Lee/EGW U-die. This is a die that sizes the case a little smaller than a normal die, and holds the bullet very securely. For less than $15 it just makes good sense.

I hope this makes sense, if not let me know and I'll try to clear it up. Hopefully I am not coming across as 'preaching' either, that isn't my intention. Just trying to help.

[tenn_man75]

I already have a bullet puller. I had someone suggest that and we got one.

On the hodgdon Long Shot. When we bought that powder the man looked it up on what to use. It was 8.7 with a 155 grain bullet at 1200 an something FTP. I was just wondering if anyone else has ever loaded pistols with it. Plus how good it was. If its better than the blue Dot I will use it. The blue Dot was given to me and it was already opened up. We thought we would just use it first. But looking through my manual on loading the .40 the book does not reference to the Hodgdon Long Shot. The manual was bought from Cabelas about 4 weeks ago. So I figured it would have it in it but it didn't.


Now on the sizing of the brass. I have the Lee Dies. The bullet is very tight in the casing after setting the bullet. I will try what you are saying and see. You know its different strokes for different folks. I want know for sure till I try it out for myself. I appreciate any and every piece of advice. I am learning so I need to know what to expect.

[bkan]

I load 40 sw, 38 spl, 357 mag and use tite group. Been using this powder for the past 4 years. Just follow the manual for each cal. and bullet weight. This powder is clean and gives good performance.

[HSMITH]

I have used Longshot in 40. Email Hodgdon, there will be an address on their website, and they can provide the latest and greatest loading data.

I only used Longshot in the upper end of the velocity range, and that it definately can provide. The downside is very sharp recoil and muzzle blast, but velocity comes at a price.

For more normal loadings look to Tite-Group and Power Pistol. Both are very nice 40 powders. Winchester Super Field is also a good one to try.

Find a good safe load and shoot LOTS of them. Practice is more important than 100 fps.

[MrApathy]

for hodgdon longshot data go to
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/longshot/index.htm

lower bullet weights ie 135-155 can shoot flatter than 165-180.
have had excellent accuracy with 135gr. Nosler 135gr is good bullet but need to send it 1150-1300fps.

180gr bullets require less powder usually.

havent toyed with blue dot. but I have shot Winchester Super Field WSF and loved it got very consistent velocity and accuracy was nice with 180gr Bullet.

loaded some longshot but chronograph gave me bad numbers. ie 1200fps with 180gr Hornady 180gr FMJ. dont think so loaded 1.135OAL numbers I consider good are rather low 950 range. good crimp setback not a issue recoil was very manageable.

Power Pistol is nice to load would like it better without flash. WSF is nice alternative though gives slightly lesser velocity.

if you plan on shooting light bullets Titegroup might be better idea. wont send them very fast but will require less powder per cartridge.

would recommend you pickup Hodgdon 2004 magazine manual. has longshot data for 135gr to 200gr in 40sw and other hodgdon powders.

alliant has some basic data on website. keep an eye out for free booklets,small magazines from powder manufactures they are usually limited but better than no load data.

can get a low cost manual from midwayusa.com for 40sw that covers most powders except longshot. various bullet weights,OAL and has FPS data though various barrel lengths and sure temperature for the day they tested.
its made by loadbooks usa
http://www.loadbooks.com cheaper at midwayusa than loadbooks
"The Complete Reloading Manual for 40sw"

[tenn_man75]

Thanks for the web site. Its what I have been looking for.

[crcksht]

I've used Blue Dot and its capable of providing impressive velocities with the 155 gr Speer GDHP. Just be careful working up your load. That 12 gr load Tenn-Man mentioned sounds way too hot to me. 11.0 gr. is very hot in my Browning HP .40 with some high-pressure signs.

You might want to add a Lee factory crimp die to your tool set. I've used them for both .40 S&W and .44 mag and they work great and allow you to adjust for a very light crimp up to a heavy crimp. It adds one step to the process, but I feel its worth the trouble. They run about $7 to $8.