280 AI or .270

[taylorce1]

65K is perfectly safe in a modern bolt action for a .280 Rem just like the AI. I don't understand why you didn't use a matching 64K like you did the AI and WSM. This goes right back to mely earlier post about where I complained about cherry picking data.

The only reason Remington IMO didn't load the .280 to 65K like the .270 is because it would have ruined their wonder cartridge the 7mm RM. So you just proved my point all along the .280 AI isn't really better than a plain old .280 loaded like it should be. At 63K your only behind the .280 AI by 60 fps, so how is the AI actually an improvement over a properly loaded .280 Rem?

[Ridgerunner665]

I'm not cherry picking...I'm taking bolt thrust into account...at 63k the 280 is roughly equal to the 270 at 65k...and yes, I'm aware of the formula for calculating bolt thrust, which has nothing to do with caliber or bullet weight for the most part...but to simplify the general idea...I called it bolt thrust.

I'm a safety minded person...not trying to skew the results at all.

And to answer the last question...in the same way that the 7mm WSM and Rem Mag are an improvement over the 280AI...which is...not by much, on all accounts.

I'm not trying to say the 280 Rem is junk...never have said that...only trying to say that the Ackley really can creep into magnum territory...and within safe limits.

taylorce1,
I think we agree more than we disagree...but we're trying to make 2 different points.

A quote from someone with lots of 280AI experience...Kenny Jarrett, he clearly likes the 280AI... http://www.jarrettrifles.com/pet-calibers.html

Several aspects make the .280 Imp. a wonderful cartridge: first, factory ammo can be used in the Improved chamber, second, its brass life is good, and third, its versatility created by the high degree of accuracy with bullet weights ranging from 120gr. to 160gr. One can see there is very little difference, if any, between the magnum 7mm’s and the .280 Improved. Mr. Ackley felt strongly that a belted case was not needed in 7mm. Listed are average velocities for the .280 Improved and I say “average” because rifles are individuals. In fact, the tight bore barrels, dimensionally speaking, produce the best accuracy but not the best velocity.

[taylorce1]

And I ask again, why is it safe to run the .270 Win and .280 AI at 65K and not the plain old .280? The .270 is the oldest cartridge of the three and it came out in 1925. So any bolt action rifle capable of handling the .270 Win at 65K PSI made after 1925 should be able to handle a .280 Rem at 65K PSI as well bolt thrust and all. Doubly so for any action made since the inception of the WSM cartridges.

It wasn't safety reasons that the .280 Rem was never ran at 65K, like I said before. Nosler only introduced the .280 AI so they could run the .280 at 65K like it should have been in the first place. They didn't do anything that hand loaders of the .280 hadn't been doing for decades already.

Run the .280 Rem at the same pressure as the AI in your quick load and watch the gap close.

[Ridgerunner665]

Actually...it doesn't...the 280 Rem runs out of case capacity, can't get enough of the proper powders in there to reach 64,000 psi...which is where Ackley comes into play...it adds that little bit of much needed capacity.



Cartridge : .280 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 150, Nosler Accubond LR 58734 G7
Useable Case Capaci: 59.175 grain H2O = 3.842 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64000 psi, or 441 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 107 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

83 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Norma MRP 107.0 60.9 3.95 3093 99.6 62932 12160 1.115 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 7828 SSC 107.0 60.0 3.89 3057 97.5 63104 11907 1.106 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-17 96.5 55.2 3.58 3053 100.0 64000 10767 1.111 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N560 107.0 59.6 3.86 3024 96.5 59482 12165 1.142 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-19 105.9 57.8 3.74 3023 98.7 64000 11369 1.112 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2209 105.2 57.1 3.70 3023 98.6 64000 11287 1.105 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Hunter 101.3 57.1 3.70 3022 99.9 64000 11061 1.118 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H414 95.7 55.2 3.58 3018 99.6 64000 11080 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 760 95.7 55.2 3.58 3018 99.6 64000 11080 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2213 107.0 59.0 3.82 3013 97.0 61277 11706 1.121 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma URP 100.9 54.4 3.53 3002 100.0 64000 10589 1.125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N550 98.0 54.6 3.54 3002 100.0 64000 10728 1.129 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate MAGPRO 107.0 62.0 4.02 3000 94.8 58683 12136 1.154 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-22 107.0 59.0 3.82 2998 98.1 58877 11759 1.152 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4350 100.1 54.6 3.54 2998 100.0 64000 10549 1.140 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 204 100.3 56.5 3.66 2996 98.4 64000 11053 1.114 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4831 SC 106.8 58.9 3.82 2990 96.8 64000 11125 1.110 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Magnum 107.0 63.6 4.12 2985 98.7 59923 11286 1.136 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4831 105.8 55.3 3.58 2983 100.0 64000 10354 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Big Game 91.3 53.0 3.44 2973 100.0 64000 10083 1.125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester Supreme 780 104.1 59.9 3.88 2971 98.5 64000 10755 1.117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4895 91.0 49.6 3.22 2968 100.0 64000 10103 1.132 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-15 91.8 50.1 3.25 2961 100.0 64000 10071 1.131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 103.5 54.6 3.54 2960 100.0 64000 9740 1.125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4350 103.1 55.0 3.57 2957 99.2 64000 10470 1.121 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

[Ridgerunner665]

If you load it to 110% load density it gets pretty close...but myself, I don't care for that much compression...powder starts pushing bullets back out, using drop tubes to get it all in there, etc....

Cartridge : .280 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 150, Nosler Accubond LR 58734 G7
Useable Case Capaci: 59.175 grain H2O = 3.842 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64000 psi, or 441 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

83 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Norma MRP 107.5 61.2 3.96 3108 99.6 64000 12187 1.107 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N560 109.2 60.8 3.94 3092 97.3 64000 12376 1.105 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate MAGPRO 109.4 63.4 4.11 3081 95.9 64000 12394 1.110 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-22 109.5 60.4 3.91 3072 98.8 64000 11955 1.110 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 7828 SSC 107.4 60.2 3.90 3070 97.6 64000 11942 1.099 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2213 108.3 59.7 3.87 3053 97.5 64000 11822 1.099 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-17 96.5 55.2 3.58 3053 100.0 64000 10767 1.111 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

[Ridgerunner665]

And if that was all you were trying to convince me of...lol...we've wasted some bandwidth

I already knew it would get within about 60 fps....the guys over on Nosler forum have already made that clear.

But I believe the Ackley is a little better way to do it...case life and more capacity gives a couple more powder options...those being the only 2 real advantages.

Like I said...we agree, but we're trying to make 2 different points.


Yours is that the 280 Rem can do a lot more than meets the eye...and you're 100% correct.


My point is that the Ackley can and will run with the magnums (not the ultra magnums)...really heavy bullets not included...I think the Ackley is at its best with 150 grain bullets.

[Ridgerunner665]

Bart,
Sorry, missed your question somehow...

Yes...those can be edited in QuickLoad, but after you enter it, the program rounds them off to the nearest thousandth and recalculates the cross sectional bore area based on the new diameter.

[Ridgerunner665]

With the groove and bullet diameter edited as Bart suggested...and a 140 Nosler Accubond...matches the SAAMI data within 3 fps....I'd say thats close enough.

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 66.542 grain H2O = 4.320 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64000 psi, or 441 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 107 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

91 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Norma MRP 105.1 67.2 4.36 3257 99.7 64000 13150 1.083 ! Near Maximum !

[Bart B.]

Ridgerunner, SAAMI lists the .280 Rem's proof testing loads at 80,000 to 86,000 psi. Therefore, that case can be loaded to any pressure from its 60,000 psi normal level up to that higher pressure. Beyond that, too, if ones egos demand it.

[old roper]

Ridgerunner665, I don't load to QL don't even own it, but I do shoot what I post about. I do run some of Litz ballistic tables on my rifles and 270 I posted about is just that.

My 280AI and 270 are hunting rifles. I had 284 build long action same time as 280AI used same barrel spec and I can get 280AI velocity using 3gr less powder.

Some how I manage to like both rifles same as I have the Lilja barrel 270 also Mike Rock barrel 270Wby,270WSM with Lawton barrel and other 270 with Hart barrel. Last two rifle nephew has them in Calif just had too many to shoot.

[reynolds357]

Bart, you can get 3272 from the 140 accubond and be below max pressure in the 7WSM 24". The .280 AI is sacrificing too much case capacity to the 7 WSM to match it in an all variable being equal comparison.

[Unlicensed Dremel]

Good info, Ridgerunner; thanks. I think the .280 AI and the 7mm RSAUM (which are only about 1-2 grs apart on case capacity in h2o), probably hit the best sweet spot (for ME) in terms of the tradeoff between needed hunting performance in open terrains, vs. barrel life (throat erosion) in a 7mm round -- with .280 regular and .284 win being just below, and 7mm WSM being just above. Also all good cartridges (except for the rarity of .284 win components)

[taylorce1]

Here is the heartburn I have with the .280 AI vs. threads. The number one arguement for the .280 AI is 7mm RM velocities with less powder and less recoil, all in a lighter handier rifle. This simply isn't true as I've said before there is no free lunch.

I don't know what Ridgerunner's Nosler 48 is going to weigh but I'm guessing around 7.5 lbs when all is said and done. The average weight of most 7mm RM is probably going to be in the neighborhod of 8 lbs. At only a half pound difference in weight a .280 AI pushing a 150 grain bullet at 3100 fps recoils nearly the same as a 7mm RM pushing the same bullet to 3200 fps. If both rifles weigh the same the 7mm RM has more recoil, but both cartridges have more recoil than a .30-06 pushing a 180 grain bullet at 2750 fps that weighs 7.5 lbs.

So then the next advantage is more rounds in a magazine. Most rifles are 4 + 1 for standard cartridges and 3 + 1 for magnum. Seriously is having one extra round in the magazine better? If you don't hit the game with the first or second shot your probably not going to get a chance with 3-5.

So in the end I see no advantage to running a .280 AI at 7mm RM velocities. If you do your more than likely going to have to use some sort or recoil mitigation. Either adding weight to the rifle or a muzzle brake neither are things I look forward to. Even Nosler doesn't load their Trophy Grade Long Range ammunition for the .280 AI to 3100 fps, they load it to just over 2900 fps, which will put you in the 90-95% load density that most cartridges seem to prefer.

So since 2900 fps is certainly doable in the .280 Rem as well with a 150 grain bullet. So the only reason that Nosler came out with the SAAMI specs on the .280 AI was to push the cartridge to 65K PSI where the .280 Rem should have been all along instead of 60K PSI. This has been the biggest complaint about the .280 Rem and factory ammunition all along.

[reynolds357]

Exactly, they could have added "for bolt action only" to the box of regular .280 and avoided the whole roll out of a new product. I think the name of the cartridge was more of a reason than the merits of the cartridge. "Ackley" sounds different and interesting to the average person wanting to drop a wad of cash.

[Ridgerunner665]

Its not that simple...even loaded to 92-96%, the Ackley is still at least 50 fps faster...but the point of that load density being the only one that will shoot is questionable at best...nodes can be tweaked, if need be....JD338 has one that will put 3 rounds in 1 hole....160 Accubond at a little over 3,000 fps...and he's not the only one.

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 150, Nosler Accubond LR 58734 G7
Useable Case Capaci: 65.678 grain H2O = 4.264 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64000 psi, or 441 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 96 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

98 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 92.8 58.9 3.82 3088 100.0 64000 11447 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 92.2 59.1 3.83 3066 99.9 64000 11830 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 92.2 59.1 3.83 3066 99.9 64000 11830 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 94.5 58.4 3.79 3045 100.0 64000 11409 1.138 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 96.0 58.1 3.77 3030 100.0 63268 11210 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 96.0 60.0 3.89 3022 98.9 62117 11791 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 96.0 60.0 3.89 3020 99.9 60652 11678 1.155 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 96.0 57.5 3.73 3012 100.0 61582 11202 1.154 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 91.8 56.4 3.65 2990 99.7 64000 11067 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 90.6 53.9 3.49 2989 100.0 64000 10367 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 90.1 55.1 3.57 2987 100.0 64000 10478 1.153 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 91.2 53.6 3.47 2975 100.0 64000 10391 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 91.5 53.6 3.47 2975 100.0 64000 10391 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 92.0 52.6 3.41 2965 100.0 64000 10190 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 96.0 57.8 3.75 2959 99.4 60526 11069 1.155 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 91.9 58.1 3.76 2942 99.6 64000 10458 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 96.0 60.7 3.93 2913 98.4 49340 12369 1.261
Hodgdon H4350 96.0 56.9 3.68 2910 99.1 57274 10945 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 96.0 57.8 3.75 2908 97.7 53274 11591 1.209
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 96.0 56.2 3.64 2903 100.0 56748 10208 1.197 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 96.0 54.8 3.55 2900 100.0 61297 9732 1.168 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 96.0 58.1 3.77 2893 97.7 52631 11602 1.225
Vihtavuori N135 93.7 51.4 3.33 2886 100.0 64000 9083 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 96.0 61.3 3.97 2877 97.9 54198 11157 1.214
IMR 7828 SSC 96.0 59.7 3.87 2874 95.5 48992 12014 1.253
IMR 4831 96.0 55.7 3.61 2868 100.0 53195 10720 1.243





Cartridge : .280 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 150, Nosler Accubond LR 58734 G7
Useable Case Capaci: 59.175 grain H2O = 3.842 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64000 psi, or 441 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 96 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

74 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 96.0 54.9 3.56 3037 100.0 62796 10740 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H414 95.7 55.2 3.58 3018 99.6 64000 11080 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 760 95.7 55.2 3.58 3018 99.6 64000 11080 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Big Game 91.3 53.0 3.44 2973 100.0 64000 10083 1.125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4895 91.0 49.6 3.22 2968 100.0 64000 10103 1.132 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-15 91.8 50.1 3.25 2961 100.0 64000 10071 1.131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203B 92.2 50.3 3.26 2957 100.0 64000 9990 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H380 93.1 51.9 3.36 2956 100.0 64000 10219 1.135 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N550 96.0 53.5 3.47 2947 100.0 60018 10626 1.162 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203 old 93.5 51.5 3.34 2946 100.0 64000 9830 1.145 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4320 93.8 50.3 3.26 2943 100.0 64000 9710 1.119 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4007 SSC 94.9 52.5 3.40 2936 99.2 64000 10315 1.131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2208 94.3 50.0 3.24 2927 100.0 64000 9732 1.122 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon VARGET 94.7 50.0 3.24 2927 100.0 64000 9732 1.122 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4064 95.2 49.0 3.18 2918 100.0 64000 9536 1.127 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 3031 91.1 46.5 3.01 2907 100.0 64000 9041 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 201 90.1 48.1 3.12 2901 100.0 64000 9345 1.144 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4064 93.0 49.7 3.22 2901 100.0 64000 9217 1.167 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N540 91.6 50.5 3.27 2889 100.0 64000 9207 1.140 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2700 94.9 54.0 3.50 2886 99.1 64000 9728 1.135 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4350 96.0 52.4 3.39 2881 99.9 55638 10380 1.215 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 96.0 54.1 3.50 2870 99.1 53769 10698 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 96.0 51.8 3.36 2869 99.9 54753 10344 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 96.0 54.1 3.50 2866 97.1 55323 10660 1.189 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 91.4 48.9 3.17 2859 100.0 64000 8707 1.141 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N135 96.0 47.5 3.08 2823 100.0 61964 8434 1.167 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

[Ridgerunner665]

You don't have to "drop a wad of cash" to get an Ackley...take a worn out or no longer wanted long action rifle, buy a barrel (~$400), and have it chambered and screwed on the old action...you can do all that for the price of a new rifle ($600-$800)

I doubt "Ackley" sounds new or interesting to most people familiar with rifles...I didn't get it because it was new, I owned one back in the 80's...but didn't really have the means to feed it back then (13 year old son of a small time tobacco farmer at the time)

Renaming it or labeling the box...lol, Remington tried that...3 times (280 Rem, 7mm-06, 7mm Express, then back to 280 Rem)...it didn't work then, wouldn't work now...the 280 is a great round, always was and still is....but its stuck in the mud, and that is Remingtons fault for poor marketing decisions.

The Ackley is selling...Nosler can't build them quick enough...just saw one of the sponsors on Long Range Hunting forum finished building a really nice one last night.

[Ridgerunner665]

Magazine capacity...forgot to address that one.

We all like to put em down with one shot, and I usually do...but I've emptied 5 rounds from a model 70 a couple of times too...stuff happens.

How important is 1 more round? Put up $4,000-$8,000 for a nice hunt somewhere and come home empty handed because you didn't have 1 more round...in my mind, 1 more can mean a lot.

I live in Tennesee...I can't walk out my back door and go hunt elk, mule deer, etc...I have to travel, and pay....a lot.

I'll take every little advantage I can get...

[Ridgerunner665]

old roper,

The reason I questioned what you posted about your 270 was because it doesn't compute when I run it on Applied Ballistics...unless I run it with an impossible muzzle velocity, or at higher elevation.

Whats the muzzle velocity and barrel length?


The 284 Win was another one that I almost got...the last 3 rounds standing in my elimination to decide what I wanted was the 284, the 7mm RM and the Ackley.

The 284 is another one that should have and could have been better than it was...poor marketing tactics killed it before it hit the ground...in my opinion, its better than the 280 Rem, and the Rem ain't no slouch.

Last two rifle nephew has them in Calif just had too many to shoot.

I know the feeling...I sold a bunch of rifles last year...had way too many, and not enough time to shoot them....used the proceeds from that to buy a new truck and pay for this Nosler I have ordered.

[Ridgerunner665]

Missed another one...the weight of the Nosler 48.

It has the Kevlar stock (1.5 lbs.), but it has steel bottom metal and a magnum contour barrel...longer cone around the chamber and tapers to .650" at the muzzle, the standard contour has a short cone and tapers to .600"...also has stainless steel pillars in the stock, and MarineTex bedding...the scope is a Zeiss HD5 3-15x42...

I'm hoping it weighs about 9 lbs (rifle, scope, sling, ammo)...that was my target weight...I don't like feather light rifles...they carry nice, but many don't shoot for $&%^$...and I'm not exactly a recoil junkie...I can take it fine, just don't like to....there will be no recoil dampers or muzzle brakes on my rifle...just a Decelerator pad.

And you're right...when you push the Ackley, the recoil between them is often a wash...but the barrel life isn't.

[Ridgerunner665]

Bart,

Ridgerunner, SAAMI lists the .280 Rem's proof testing loads at 80,000 to 86,000 psi. Therefore, that case can be loaded to any pressure from its 60,000 psi normal level up to that higher pressure. Beyond that, too, if ones egos demand it.

Was it P.O. Ackley or Roy Weatherby that said "as long as the bolt stays in the rifle, its OK..."?

I think that was Ackley...lol.

[old roper]

Ridgerunner665, My front door is over 7600ft and I hunt average 8500ft to over 10k. I never run ballistic on rifle I'm having build so till I load for it I have no idea what velocity is and I won't run a load over chronograph till accuracy is what I think it should be. Other thing is, I'm in no rush so if it takes year or so before I hunt with it no big deal and I really like to have year or so before I hunt with one.

[reynolds357]

Ridge Runner, Nosler is selling the Ackley because everything "custom" is selling at the moment. Believe it or not, I know how to build an Ackley. The easiest way would be to buy a .280 Remington and ream it. If I were going to build one, I would not build tha Ackley improved, I would build the Ackley magnum. Depends on how you ream it as to what you get. The magnum wont fire factroy 280 Remington, but it picks up about 50 fps more on the heaviest bullets.

I think Ackley said "as long as the bolt stays in the rifle, it's OK." I remember reading about him trying to blow up 98 Mausers and him becoming frustrated because it was almost impossible to blow them up without using pistol powder.

[Ridgerunner665]

old roper,
I understand...and that explains it...but when you run the Ackley at 8,000 feet it changes things too....200 fps difference it 800 yards, widens the gap from your 270 some....not knocking your 270, just pointing it out...the comparison you made before wasn't on even terms

[reynolds357]

Before long, yall will have the .280 Ackley improved beating the 7 Rum.

[Ridgerunner665]

No wonder everybody is buying customs...getting an off the shelf rifle thats built right is a crap shoot...every dang one I buy has something wrong with it...I'll save my money and buy the higher priced ones...instead of having 4 safes crammed full of guns, now I only have 1 save with 12 guns in it....same amount of money invested, and less headaches.

My wifes 270...a model 70 Featherweight Deluxe, $800 rifle...the bolt face looks terrible, machining marks all over it...it shoots great so its not a huge deal, but still...