Getting

renaissance7697 · February 18, 2001, 07:18 PM

HELP! HELP! HELP!

I have tried everything I can think of and can not solve this problem.

I am using a Piggyback II on a Rockchucker with Lyman Dies.
Loading .38 spl Full Wadcutters ( for a S&W 52-2 )
Using "National" Brand > 148 grain Lead DEWC and HBWC.
Seating the slug Flush with the mouth of the case
(the 52-2 requires this)

Just about every finished cartridge comes out with a VISABLE "ring" around the case > just below where the base of the Wad-cutter ends up seated.
Sometimes it is "Measurable" sometimes not > just visually discernable.
When measurable, it is anywhere from .001 larger than the rest of the sized case to .003-.004

About 5 to 10 out of every 50 come out with a "Ring"/"Bulge" SO large, that The finished cartridge WILL NOT go into My Max cartidge Gauge.

The finished cartridge stops entering the Max cartridge gauge right where the ring is.

Checking my cases BEFORE they enter the seating/crimping die shows them to be perfecly sized (except for the flare, of course).

If I run the case through the seating/crimping die WITHOUT seating a bullet > they are perfect > (i.e. NO Ring)

I have checked my bullets and they are consistent and well within specs.
Again: the bulge/ring is immeadiately BELOW the base of the seated Bullet

My sizing die (carbide) is adjusted to where it firmly makes contact with the Piggyback shell plate.

I use a powder charge checker in the station after dropping powder, so it is not possible to seat and crimp in separate stages. I wouldn't sleep well without my powder checker.

I DO have a Lee Factory Crimp die and if I run the "ringed" cases through it they come out fine, but this has to be a separate step and I SHOULD NOT have to do this.

I have tried:

1. Varying the flare / bell of the case from "Nothing" to "so large" > that the case will not enter my Seating/crimping die.

2. Varying the Crimp from > Just enough to return the case to its resized dimension before flaring
TO
Maximum I can without actually "Crushing the Case.

Neither of these adjustments in any combination that I could try seemed to have had any effect on the problem.

A Curious Note:
Most of the finished cartridges that bulge so much that they will not fit the Max Cartridge gauge: are Winchester +P
BUT
Many Winchester +P come out OK. (ie the ring shows but they still fit the Max cartridge gauge).

I have been advised that there is NO dimensional difference between the +P and "normal" case dimensions.
(Is this correct ???)

The Lyman Dies came with 3 seating stems.
One with a "round" bullet contact face
and
Two (2) with "Flat" faces (recessed) and a flat Rim at the periphery of the stem face.
One rim is narrow and one wider.
I was advised that the "wider" rim was the one to use with the full wadcutter.
(Is this correct ????)
It just occured to me that I have never tried the narrow rimed flat face - Hmmm ???

Both seating stems fit the sized (and expanded) empty case > CLOSE but without friction.

Comparing the finished case length of those finished cartridges that will NOT fit with Those that DO shows no significant difference in OAL.

This thing is driving me NUTS!

No one else seems to have this problem, nor has anyone I have talked to seen anything like it.

Of course no one I have talked to hax exactly my combination of gear and
I can find no one who loads for a 52-2.

I appeal to the group >>>>

Can ANYONE offer me any help/advice?

Please e-mail [email protected] as well as post a reply.

TIA

Desperate!

Chris McDermott · February 20, 2001, 04:30 PM

Bulging the case during bullet seating is a product of downward force on the case walls. The Lee crimp die "fixes" this by having a sizing ring in the die, so the case gets re-sized as part of the bullet crimping, removing any bulges.
Are all of your cases the exact same length? If not, then the longer cases will have a "heavier" crimp put on them, and that could be causing those cases to bulge. Also check your seating die setting. It could be contacting the longer cases during the bullet seating process, pushing down and bulging the case below the bullet. Back off your seating stem an eigth of a turn and see if the bulges go away.

Another hint - don't let a carbide die touch the shell plate, the carbide ring is brittle and could crack, ruining your sizing die.

February 18, 2001, 07:18 PM	#1
renaissance7697 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2001 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 203	HELP! HELP! HELP! I have tried everything I can think of and can not solve this problem. I am using a Piggyback II on a Rockchucker with Lyman Dies. Loading .38 spl Full Wadcutters ( for a S&W 52-2 ) Using "National" Brand > 148 grain Lead DEWC and HBWC. Seating the slug Flush with the mouth of the case (the 52-2 requires this) Just about every finished cartridge comes out with a VISABLE "ring" around the case > just below where the base of the Wad-cutter ends up seated. Sometimes it is "Measurable" sometimes not > just visually discernable. When measurable, it is anywhere from .001 larger than the rest of the sized case to .003-.004 About 5 to 10 out of every 50 come out with a "Ring"/"Bulge" SO large, that The finished cartridge WILL NOT go into My Max cartidge Gauge. The finished cartridge stops entering the Max cartridge gauge right where the ring is. Checking my cases BEFORE they enter the seating/crimping die shows them to be perfecly sized (except for the flare, of course). If I run the case through the seating/crimping die WITHOUT seating a bullet > they are perfect > (i.e. NO Ring) I have checked my bullets and they are consistent and well within specs. Again: the bulge/ring is immeadiately BELOW the base of the seated Bullet My sizing die (carbide) is adjusted to where it firmly makes contact with the Piggyback shell plate. I use a powder charge checker in the station after dropping powder, so it is not possible to seat and crimp in separate stages. I wouldn't sleep well without my powder checker. I DO have a Lee Factory Crimp die and if I run the "ringed" cases through it they come out fine, but this has to be a separate step and I SHOULD NOT have to do this. I have tried: 1. Varying the flare / bell of the case from "Nothing" to "so large" > that the case will not enter my Seating/crimping die. 2. Varying the Crimp from > Just enough to return the case to its resized dimension before flaring TO Maximum I can without actually "Crushing the Case. Neither of these adjustments in any combination that I could try seemed to have had any effect on the problem. A Curious Note: Most of the finished cartridges that bulge so much that they will not fit the Max Cartridge gauge: are Winchester +P BUT Many Winchester +P come out OK. (ie the ring shows but they still fit the Max cartridge gauge). I have been advised that there is NO dimensional difference between the +P and "normal" case dimensions. (Is this correct ???) The Lyman Dies came with 3 seating stems. One with a "round" bullet contact face and Two (2) with "Flat" faces (recessed) and a flat Rim at the periphery of the stem face. One rim is narrow and one wider. I was advised that the "wider" rim was the one to use with the full wadcutter. (Is this correct ????) It just occured to me that I have never tried the narrow rimed flat face - Hmmm ??? Both seating stems fit the sized (and expanded) empty case > CLOSE but without friction. Comparing the finished case length of those finished cartridges that will NOT fit with Those that DO shows no significant difference in OAL. This thing is driving me NUTS! No one else seems to have this problem, nor has anyone I have talked to seen anything like it. Of course no one I have talked to hax exactly my combination of gear and I can find no one who loads for a 52-2. I appeal to the group >>>> Can ANYONE offer me any help/advice? Please e-mail [email protected] as well as post a reply. TIA Desperate!

February 20, 2001, 04:30 PM	#2
Chris McDermott Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2000 Posts: 245	Bulging the case during bullet seating is a product of downward force on the case walls. The Lee crimp die "fixes" this by having a sizing ring in the die, so the case gets re-sized as part of the bullet crimping, removing any bulges. Are all of your cases the exact same length? If not, then the longer cases will have a "heavier" crimp put on them, and that could be causing those cases to bulge. Also check your seating die setting. It could be contacting the longer cases during the bullet seating process, pushing down and bulging the case below the bullet. Back off your seating stem an eigth of a turn and see if the bulges go away. Another hint - don't let a carbide die touch the shell plate, the carbide ring is brittle and could crack, ruining your sizing die.