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Old December 1, 2014, 08:39 PM   #1
02bigdogs17
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.308 componets??

I recently bought a Savage Axis II in .308 caliber. I started loading some loads for it and have not had the consistency I am looking for yet. Just wanted to get some opinions on what I have tried and what others are using. These are the componets I have tried so far.
Hornady 165gr SP's, Sierra 165gr SP's, CCI Large Rifle Primers, Varget, and AA2495 powders.
With the Varget I have loaded from 36gr to 42.5gr
With the AA2495 I have loaded from 36gr to 39gr
So far I have not seen any signs of pressure problems with either powder and the max charge for the Varget in the Hornady book shows 44gr, and the AA2495 max is 40.7gr. Just curious because my other rifles so far I have found really good loads for them and they were not that close to max loads but I have been told the .308 really likes max charges of most powders especially Varget. I know I can keep going hotter and testing because I have not hit any pressure signs yet but just wanted to see what kind of charges other people are using. Also this Axis has a really long throat. Has anyone tried seating the bullets out closer to the lands. I am seating at 2.750" but I know I have a long ways to go to get to the lands. Thanks for any comments.
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Old December 1, 2014, 08:44 PM   #2
riflemen
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these guys http://www.midwayusa.com/product/741...ProductFinding with 49 grains of Varget, you will be amazed...

I have also done these with less powder, I like these light weight 308's for target shooting, hornady loads some called light action or something like that, they work awesome for grouping..

Last edited by riflemen; December 1, 2014 at 08:52 PM.
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Old December 1, 2014, 08:50 PM   #3
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Here is one to try if you can find the powder.

168 Serria Match
CCI-BR2 primers
43.2 gns RL-15
2.8 COL
Has worked in every rifle that has tried it. RL-15 is not easy to come by right now though.
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Old December 1, 2014, 09:36 PM   #4
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Hodgdons website shows 46 gr Varget as a max load with 165's @ about 2775 fps. That is my load. I've used it with Hornady and Nosler bullets and get just about the published speeds. Accuracy is good. That is a max load according to their data and it works well in my rifles. I use Winchester primers, but if anything they should be a little hotter than the CCI's you are using.

42.5 gr is just barely above the recommended starting load.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

Here is some load data from Nosler as well

http://www.nosler.com/nosler-load-data/308-winchester/

I've also had good luck with both Reloder 15 and 4064. There are lots of good powders that work well with 308.
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Old December 1, 2014, 09:52 PM   #5
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150gr FMJ boattails
26.8grains of IMR3031
CCI 400 primers

Grouping 1.5" at 300yrds out of my DPMS sass.
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Old December 1, 2014, 10:30 PM   #6
Bart B.
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A grain or so below most max listings with IMR4064, Re15, N140 and similar extruded powders has often proved very accurate in .308 Win. cases properly full length sized and shot in decent rifles. Most often lately with Russian primers from Tulammo.

No ball powder's proved best for accuracy in any good quality rifle. But it's good for combat ammo.
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Old December 2, 2014, 10:42 AM   #7
AllenJ
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I've only tried three bullets and two powders in my 308 so far. Best loads have been:

168 SMK, 43.0 grains of IMR4064

175 SMK, 43.0 grains of IMR4064

178 Hornady Match, 45.0 grains of Varget

No pressure signs on any in my rifle but of course your results may be different.
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Old December 2, 2014, 02:46 PM   #8
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I have two AR's chambered in .308 with 16" barrels and a Savage Hog hunter which has a 20" barrel. All three rifles have a 1/10 twist rate and with 165gn Nosler Ballistic Tips I've found that 44.0 grains has given me the most accurate load. I've tried as low as 42 grains and as high as 46 but none were as accurate as 44 grains.
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Old December 2, 2014, 09:44 PM   #9
gman3
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I have had good results with RL-15 also. 155 Amax and 155 SMK Palma. However, the most accurate handload I have ever shot in my 308 was with IMR 4320 and the 168 SMK. Federal brass and CCI 200 primers. That load shot a little less than .5 @ 200 for ten shots. Savage 10FCP HS Precision 24" 1-10 twist. I only happened to try it by chance because my local dealer had a bunch of it, and nothing else suitable for .308. Quite a nice surprise, and realized those results with the first load I tried. Also, it meters very accurately (as well as most ball powders) through a charge thrower due to the small kernel size.

Last edited by gman3; December 2, 2014 at 09:49 PM.
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Old December 3, 2014, 01:54 PM   #10
mwells72774
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Out of an axis, i had decent loads with a 165gr SST over 3031. Can't think of the load off hand but it was plenty accurate.
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Old December 3, 2014, 02:52 PM   #11
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02bigdogs17,

You didn't say what cases you were using. 308/7.62 cases vary around 2 grains of powder's worth of capacity from lightest to heaviest. The 308 Win and the 300 Win Mag have more capacity difference among different headstamps than any other cartridges I am aware of.

You can try seating depth tuning. Seat a bullet out to jam 0.010" into the lands or to be no less than 1/8" into the case mouth, whichever is shorter. Work a load up from scratch. Measure the velocity. Then seat deeper in 0.030" steps until the end of the bearing surface and the beginning of the bullet ogive is right at the case mouth. See if you see groups tightening.

A more sophisticated version of that test involves keeping track of the velocities at each seating depth. Then adjusting the powder charge at each stage to match the velocity of the longest seated round (the first one you developed) in order to get closer to all rounds having the same barrel time when you test them. This does not work perfectly, as the heavier charges will be associated with longer barrel times when velocities match.

Obviously, if it turns out you cannot achieve the above velocity match without exceeding published loads, you want to reconsider the powder choice for those seating depths.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you have a gun with uneven bolt lug contact, or that needs its stock bedded, its barrel floated, or has a bad crown, no amount of ammo tuning will fix it. Testing with Federal Gold Medal Match ammunition with 168 grain MatchKing makes a good base to check that out. Almost every 308 Win shoots it at least pretty well.

But it the match load shoots well, then the gun's OK and you just need to hone in on your tuning. Take a read through Dan Newberry's OCW site for one approach to getting pretty good results without special tools.
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Old December 3, 2014, 03:30 PM   #12
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I've had good luck with IMR4064 and IMR4895 in my Savage 11 in .308. I haven't tried either of the powders you listed. Mine has a 1/10 twist and shoots the 150's just fine. I have gotten my best accuracy with 4064 and 190gr Bergers seated just off of the lands. I did the test Berger recommends and found my rifle likes them .020 off. YMMV

For what its worth this is my first Savage and it is much more ammo sensitive than my other bolt guns. The point of impact can move up to 5 inches at 100 yards depending on the ammo used. Not a knock to the rifle, just and observation.
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Old December 3, 2014, 09:30 PM   #13
02bigdogs17
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Thanks for all the info I really appreciate it. Unclenick I am using .308 cases and they are all federal's, and hornady match cases. I will definitely get me a box of factory federal's and give them a try. I hope its not the rifle because I have had really good luck with the Savage Axis's I have 2 others that shoot sub moa groups. The only thing I don't like about them is the flimsy stocks they come with. I have Boyds on my others and will be ordering one for the 308 as well. Again thanks and look forward to any more comments.
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Old December 4, 2014, 12:32 AM   #14
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I have a 308 reamer and ~~ 13 rifles in 308.
For years I tried with IMR4895 and Sierra 168 gr Match Kings, but never got a 1" group with 5 shots at 100 yards.

Then in 308 I tried 110 gr Vmax at 43kpsi with 4895. I get 1" groups.

In 243, I use 65 gr Vmax with low pressure and get 1" groups.

In 223 I use 35 gr Vmax with 35 kpsi and get 1/2" groups.

In 257RAI, I use 75 gr Vmax and get 1/2" groups

In 35W i use 158 gr XTP with a wimpy pistol powder charge and get clover leafs.

At 100 yards, I seem to do best with the lightest Vmax and a wimpy load. This makes the smallest recoil possible.
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Old December 4, 2014, 06:59 AM   #15
Bart B.
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Clark, all flavors of 4895 with charge weights in the low 40's under Sierra 168's and adjacent weights inside .308 Win cases have easily shot under 1/3 inch at 100 yards all day long for decades in good shooting systems. If your system needs target paper larger than a postage stamp to collect all fired shots, the fly in your ointment is not shaped like bullets or smokeless powder. It's more like a barrel, stock, action, case, primer, sight or shooter. Or how they all fit and function together. I think you know that.
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Old December 4, 2014, 03:02 PM   #16
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My favorite powder for the 308 in 165 grain bullets and up is Reloder 15. A close second is Varget. My hunting load for deer hunting for years has been 165 grain Hornady BTSP and 44 grains of RL-15. Can almost drive nails with it at 100 yards.

My Remington 700 has a long leade so its simple for me to load to magazine length. I do use the max recommended load of Varget behind the Hornady 165 and its good for 1MOA in my rifle, with RL-15 coming in a little tighter.
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Old December 4, 2014, 09:36 PM   #17
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When it comes to bullets, it would be helpful if we knew the application...
There are target bullets....hunting bullets...and "hybrids".

You don't want to use SP's for target shooting, nor SMK's for hunting (though some do, I hear...)
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Old December 4, 2014, 11:13 PM   #18
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I helped a friend with his 308 Axis, first we replaced the trigger
old trigger pull was 6.3 lbs & mushy
new trigger is 3.5 lbs (big difference on the target )

developed loads are-
Target
175 Sierra MK
42.2 gr IMR 4064
( military load is- 41.75 gr IMR 4064 )
CCI BR2 primer
COAL mag length

Hunting
150 gr Hornady SST
42.2 gr IMR 4895
CCI BR2 primer
mag. length COAL

these loads are not as fast as you can push them but they are accurate
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Old December 5, 2014, 08:55 AM   #19
harrinj
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.308 Components

I just started reloading .308. I'm using Sierra 165 Boattails powered by 48 grains of H414 (as listed in the Lee Reloading Manual). Seems like a lot more powder than what everyone is throwing. Hope to shoot the first 20 rounds in a new Rem Model 700 this weekend....

JD
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Old December 5, 2014, 11:21 AM   #20
Bart B.
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Sierra's 30 caliber 180-gr spitzer boattail hunting bullet shot more accurate than the arsenal 173 FMJBT in both .30-06 and .308 match rifles.

Last edited by Bart B.; December 5, 2014 at 03:37 PM.
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Old December 9, 2014, 11:00 AM   #21
02bigdogs17
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Well I could not find any Federal gold medal ammo so I bought a box of Nosler match grade ammo to test accuracy. Hopefully I will get a chance to shoot it and find out by next week.
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Old December 9, 2014, 11:51 AM   #22
Kimber84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4runnerman View Post
Here is one to try if you can find the powder.



168 Serria Match

CCI-BR2 primers

43.2 gns RL-15

2.8 COL

Has worked in every rifle that has tried it. RL-15 is not easy to come by right now though.

Our local store just put RL15 on sale for $19.99/lb. seems odd, as this place is fairly stocked on all components.
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