Silencer transfer

garryc · January 21, 2011, 09:50 AM

My friend started a trust and bought a silencer under it. I and another guy are successor trustees. My friend died Monday. I don't want it and wish to allow the other guy to have it. How do we do that? How do we transfer it? Does it need to be held by a class three dealer while paperwork goes through? Can we even take it out of the house to take it to the dealer legally?

dogtown tom · January 21, 2011, 11:36 AM

Call the lawyer who wrote the trust documents.
Call ATF.

KLRANGL · January 21, 2011, 01:36 PM

Well for the sake of discussion, since the settlor died, the trust must be disbanded and the items transferred either to the beneficiaries, or if possible to another trust that you set up. I am assuming that your original trust is still valid until the items get transferred. This is all just my best guess with my limited understanding of how trusts work. Clarifications would be nice...

I also wonder if the transfer from a trust would be covered under a Form 3...

Skans · January 21, 2011, 02:03 PM

If you don't want it, you could simply disclaim your interest under the trust and resign as co-trustee if you are one of the trustees. Google "trust disclaimer" and "trustee resignation" or check with a lawyer.

MisterPX · January 21, 2011, 04:27 PM

If you are both trustees, you share teh trusts holdings, and thus, the can may be transfered to the other listed trustee on a form 5 tax free.

garryc · January 21, 2011, 08:37 PM

Here's the kicker, we can't find a copy of the trust. We are attempting to determine the lawyer that drew it. I know the people he worked through to get the item, I'm hoping that the dealer knows what lawyer he used to draw the trust.

medalguy · January 21, 2011, 10:37 PM

And here we see another problem with a trust. They can be good if properly drawn and executed but everyone involved needs to be aware of the responsibilities and obligations as well as benefits under the trust.

garryc · January 22, 2011, 07:12 AM

That's the thing about people who are a bit eccentric. He drew it, and probably a will also, and hid it so well no one can find it.

No wife ever, no kids, the only blood relation found is a nephew. Likely he will be named executor. My buddy died last Monday, I found him in his house because he had given me the keys. We can't even bury him until legal authority is established.

Skans · January 22, 2011, 10:34 AM

Several places to check if you think the guy had a Trust:
1. Nightstand
2. Desk
3. Safe / Gun Safe
4. Safe deposit Box - look at his bank statements - then call his bank and inquire.

If you have access to his computer (if he had a computer) you might find an electronic version of the trust. Also, look for any correspondence with a lawyer - might give you some clues.

Most folks I know that do Trusts just to acquire an NFA item keep at least a copy of the trust with the NFA paperwork very close to where the NFA item is generally stored. These are just some of my thoughts - Sorry about your friend - you have your work cut out for you.

ncpatriot · January 22, 2011, 01:07 PM

In some cases, copies of POA's and wills get filed at local Clerk of Court's office, not sure about trusts. Ideally, when such a document is drawn up, all parties should have a certified copy & the attorney should keep one on file, as well as Clerk of Court. Then no matter what the comedy of errors, someone will have a valid copy that can be referred to. No one should have the "only copy" of anything, especially when survivors are part of the original arrangement & have a lot to gain or lose after one's death.

garryc · January 24, 2011, 12:30 PM

We have located the trust. The dealer still has the original document. He is faxing it to me today. He wasn't at home, but he remembers my name on it. It is a quicken document, why it's 15 pages long I don't know. The dealer wrote the trust.

Now, he says one of us was executor and the other beneficiary. How do we handle this item? Can I transport it to a class three dealer until everything is done?

Poodleshooter · January 24, 2011, 01:45 PM

Form 5s only transfer ownership to the beneficiary upon the disposition of the assets of the trust.
Transfer to successor trustees doesn't require a Form 5 transfer, as the trust still exists, and would still own the suppressor. The trustee could still use it, depending on your state's laws on self-dealing.

Since your beneficiary is likely one of you guys (hopefully the one who wants it), it should transfer out tax free on a Form 5 with the end of the trust. I would think that if the wrong guy is the sole beneficiary that would suck, as you'd have to do a taxable Form 4 transfer to the other guy if he wanted it.

dogtown tom · January 24, 2011, 06:17 PM

Quote:

garryc: ...The dealer wrote the trust....

Good grief man.
I would immediately contact my own attorney to review that trust document. There is no telling what nightmare you guys may be in for.

For starters.........that dealer is an idiot:
1. He used Quicken Willmaker
2. He's practicing law without a license.

David Hineline · January 24, 2011, 09:04 PM

If tye silencer belongs to a dead person, the last person who should have the property is some dealer, NFA dealers can not just take possesion of somones NFA property, you can always donate it to a local PD if no one wants it.

garryc · January 30, 2011, 01:40 PM

My friend now has the trust. He will present it to the nephew and ask for the item. He did contact ATF and was told to do that. He did not know that the safe had been opened, so it appears that the item is accessible to the nephew who has not been declared executor. As far as we know it is in the house unsecured.

In fact, the nephew likely will not be declared executor. His mother, my buddies sister, died 6 years ago. They found that his other sister, estranged for 27 years, is in a nursing home with Alzheimer disease. Her only son has power of attorney (nephew 2).

The nephew 1 was contacted Friday, the day after my buddies funeral. He stated he would not be available over the weekend as he was going to Michigan. (I wonder if he's taking a load of guns to sell). He also stated that he wasn't giving anything up right now.

The trustee is going to present the paperwork to him and tell him he wants the item. If he doesn't give it up the trustee will call the local PD AND the ATF.

What this guy doesn't understand is that when the cops came after I found my buddy they shot pictures of all the guns that were out. The nephew 1 also says he didn't find my buddies extensive collection of coin and gold bars.

Would you say nephew 1 is dancing with the devil? At the funeral they looked like trailer trash. Who goes to a funeral in blue jeans and a T-shirt?

January 21, 2011, 09:50 AM	#1
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	Silencer transfer My friend started a trust and bought a silencer under it. I and another guy are successor trustees. My friend died Monday. I don't want it and wish to allow the other guy to have it. How do we do that? How do we transfer it? Does it need to be held by a class three dealer while paperwork goes through? Can we even take it out of the house to take it to the dealer legally?

January 21, 2011, 11:36 AM	#2
dogtown tom Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2006 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 3,072	Call the lawyer who wrote the trust documents. Call ATF. __________________ Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

January 21, 2011, 01:36 PM	#3
KLRANGL Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 958	Well for the sake of discussion, since the settlor died, the trust must be disbanded and the items transferred either to the beneficiaries, or if possible to another trust that you set up. I am assuming that your original trust is still valid until the items get transferred. This is all just my best guess with my limited understanding of how trusts work. Clarifications would be nice... I also wonder if the transfer from a trust would be covered under a Form 3... __________________ And it's Killer Angel... as in the book

January 22, 2011, 01:07 PM	#10
ncpatriot Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 371	In some cases, copies of POA's and wills get filed at local Clerk of Court's office, not sure about trusts. Ideally, when such a document is drawn up, all parties should have a certified copy & the attorney should keep one on file, as well as Clerk of Court. Then no matter what the comedy of errors, someone will have a valid copy that can be referred to. No one should have the "only copy" of anything, especially when survivors are part of the original arrangement & have a lot to gain or lose after one's death. __________________ Remember the American heroes of Flight 93.

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January 21, 2011, 02:03 PM	#4
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	If you don't want it, you could simply disclaim your interest under the trust and resign as co-trustee if you are one of the trustees. Google "trust disclaimer" and "trustee resignation" or check with a lawyer.

January 21, 2011, 04:27 PM	#5
MisterPX Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2006 Location: Amerika's Doyleland Posts: 809	If you are both trustees, you share teh trusts holdings, and thus, the can may be transfered to the other listed trustee on a form 5 tax free.

January 21, 2011, 08:37 PM	#6
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	Here's the kicker, we can't find a copy of the trust. We are attempting to determine the lawyer that drew it. I know the people he worked through to get the item, I'm hoping that the dealer knows what lawyer he used to draw the trust.

January 21, 2011, 10:37 PM	#7
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	And here we see another problem with a trust. They can be good if properly drawn and executed but everyone involved needs to be aware of the responsibilities and obligations as well as benefits under the trust.

January 22, 2011, 07:12 AM	#8
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	That's the thing about people who are a bit eccentric. He drew it, and probably a will also, and hid it so well no one can find it. No wife ever, no kids, the only blood relation found is a nephew. Likely he will be named executor. My buddy died last Monday, I found him in his house because he had given me the keys. We can't even bury him until legal authority is established.

January 22, 2011, 10:34 AM	#9
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Several places to check if you think the guy had a Trust: 1. Nightstand 2. Desk 3. Safe / Gun Safe 4. Safe deposit Box - look at his bank statements - then call his bank and inquire. If you have access to his computer (if he had a computer) you might find an electronic version of the trust. Also, look for any correspondence with a lawyer - might give you some clues. Most folks I know that do Trusts just to acquire an NFA item keep at least a copy of the trust with the NFA paperwork very close to where the NFA item is generally stored. These are just some of my thoughts - Sorry about your friend - you have your work cut out for you.

January 24, 2011, 12:30 PM	#11
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	We have located the trust. The dealer still has the original document. He is faxing it to me today. He wasn't at home, but he remembers my name on it. It is a quicken document, why it's 15 pages long I don't know. The dealer wrote the trust. Now, he says one of us was executor and the other beneficiary. How do we handle this item? Can I transport it to a class three dealer until everything is done?

January 24, 2011, 01:45 PM	#12
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	Form 5s only transfer ownership to the beneficiary upon the disposition of the assets of the trust. Transfer to successor trustees doesn't require a Form 5 transfer, as the trust still exists, and would still own the suppressor. The trustee could still use it, depending on your state's laws on self-dealing. Since your beneficiary is likely one of you guys (hopefully the one who wants it), it should transfer out tax free on a Form 5 with the end of the trust. I would think that if the wrong guy is the sole beneficiary that would suck, as you'd have to do a taxable Form 4 transfer to the other guy if he wanted it.

January 24, 2011, 09:04 PM	#14
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	If tye silencer belongs to a dead person, the last person who should have the property is some dealer, NFA dealers can not just take possesion of somones NFA property, you can always donate it to a local PD if no one wants it.

January 30, 2011, 01:40 PM	#15
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	My friend now has the trust. He will present it to the nephew and ask for the item. He did contact ATF and was told to do that. He did not know that the safe had been opened, so it appears that the item is accessible to the nephew who has not been declared executor. As far as we know it is in the house unsecured. In fact, the nephew likely will not be declared executor. His mother, my buddies sister, died 6 years ago. They found that his other sister, estranged for 27 years, is in a nursing home with Alzheimer disease. Her only son has power of attorney (nephew 2). The nephew 1 was contacted Friday, the day after my buddies funeral. He stated he would not be available over the weekend as he was going to Michigan. (I wonder if he's taking a load of guns to sell). He also stated that he wasn't giving anything up right now. The trustee is going to present the paperwork to him and tell him he wants the item. If he doesn't give it up the trustee will call the local PD AND the ATF. What this guy doesn't understand is that when the cops came after I found my buddy they shot pictures of all the guns that were out. The nephew 1 also says he didn't find my buddies extensive collection of coin and gold bars. Would you say nephew 1 is dancing with the devil? At the funeral they looked like trailer trash. Who goes to a funeral in blue jeans and a T-shirt?