What type of Mauser's did I get?

bassfishindoc · April 3, 2011, 05:26 PM

Hey everybody. Just got back from a local gun show. I went to poke around and had a vague idea that I would like to find an old beat up bubbafied Mauser I could buy to try my hand at making a rifle for myself (I needed it pre-bubbafied because I am of the mind that a milsurp still in original condition needs to stay that way). I found a guy with two for $175 a piece. After much debate I finally walked away with both of them for $225. I now need you all's expertise to help me identify exactly what type of Mauser's I have purchased. Attached to this post is the pics of rifle number 1. It is an 8MM Mauser. If you cannot read the writing, on the side of the action it says "Gew. 98." and there is some sort of proof mark in front of the serial number (9442) with "ll" (two lower case L) written in cursive under the serial number both on the action and the barrel. On the top of the action under the crest (a crown) it reads "DANZIG 1916"

bassfishindoc · April 3, 2011, 05:28 PM

Some more pics of rifle number 1.

bassfishindoc · April 3, 2011, 05:35 PM

And here are pictures of rifle number 2. It is a 7x57 Mauser. If the pics are fuzzy the side of the action reads "DEUTSCHE WAFFEN - UND MUNITIONSFABRIKEN. BERLIN." There is also a tiny crest with a circle around it in front of the serial number (A7429). Also of note, the bolt on this rifle cocks when it is brought forward to chamber another round.

bassfishindoc · April 3, 2011, 05:37 PM

Here are the last of the pics for rifle number 2. Thanks for the help!

Goatwhiskers · April 3, 2011, 05:45 PM

Not an expert on all varieties, but rifle #1 is a model 98, presumably 8x57mm. Rifle #2 is either M93, M95, or M96, people more expert can probably tell better from your photos. Both appear to be in very good condition, I'd say you got a pretty good deal. Goatwhiskers

cracked butt · April 3, 2011, 06:57 PM

1st one is a GEW 98- which was the standard issue rifle of the Germans in WWI, its a model 98 action. Thew Danzig arsenal made more GEW-98s han any other German arsenal.

From the looks of the stock on the second rifle, I'm pretty sure its a Mauser model 95. It could be a Mauser Model 93, the beset way to tell the difference is to pull the bolt and look at its bottom- a M93 will have a flat bottom and a M95 will have a round profile to the bolt. My bets are on the Model 95 though.

bassfishindoc · April 3, 2011, 07:13 PM

The bolt on the second rifle has a round profile so I guess that makes it a model 95. Were the model 93 and 95 just precursors to the Model 98? Were they used in WWI along with the 98, or in any other conflicts? Thanks for the info, keep it coming!

cracked butt · April 3, 2011, 07:47 PM

Quote:

The bolt on the second rifle has a round profile so I guess that makes it a model 95. Were the model 93 and 95 just precursors to the Model 98?

The 93,94,95, and 96s are pretty similar to eachother with slight differences in the safety, bolt shrouds, and gas handling capabilities. The all cocked on closing, as you have discovered. The 98s are a very big upgrade from the earlier models- they cock on opening, have much better gas handling capabilities, and haove a few more safety measures built in that aren't so obvious- such as the internal machining of the bolt with corresponding shoulders on the firing pin to prevent it from firing out of battery. The bolt on standard model 98s is about 1/4" longer and they have a large ring receiver vs the 'small ring reciever' found on earlier models. (There are some small ring 98s, notably Some Turk M38s and a few rare Czech models). The Model 98 is a lot stronger than any earlier model.
The jump from the model 91 to the 93/94/95/96 models is just as big.

bassfishindoc · April 3, 2011, 08:30 PM

Thanks for the info cracked. With the differences in the design between the model 95 and 98, is the 95 a good candidate for building a hunting rifle? I have never built a rifle before and am really interested in the undertaking and having a long term project. I am not sure what modifications would need to be made to the bolt face, but is the 95 a good candidate for conversion to say, a 22-250, 243, or maybe something a bit more exotic? Are their any problems with the model 95 receivers similar to those of the low numbers Springfield 1903 receivers?

James K · April 4, 2011, 02:29 PM

I would not recommend a Model 93 or 95 Mauser for high intensity cartridges like the .243 or .22-250. Those old rifles were designed around cartridges with pressures in the 40-45000 psi range. They won't "blow up" with hotter rounds, but they may not hold up as well as a Model 98 action, which also has a cock on opening bolt, usually preferred by Americans.

I believe that is a Spanish rifle, but it is German made, which means it will not be questionable on hardness, a problem with Spanish-made rifles.

Could you show a better picture of the top of the receiver ring? I can see something there but can't tell what it is.

Jim

bassfishindoc · April 4, 2011, 05:03 PM

Hey Jim, there is nothing on the top of the receiver ring. I know my pictures are poor, what you are seeing in the pictures are a few slight gashes that are due to some rough handling in the past. I am ignorant to pre-WWII rifles. Was it customary for Germany to manufacture Mausers for other countries without any sort of crest, coat of arms, etc. on the top of the front ring? There is a small symbol on top of the barrel in front of the receiver ring. I cannot tell what it is and I cannot get a clear picture with my camera. It appears to be the same as the symbol preceding the serial number on the receiver. There is a flaming bomb on the bolt handle, but this may not help ID the rifle as the serial number on the bolt handle does not match the receiver or the barrel.

mapsjanhere · April 4, 2011, 05:46 PM

Your Nr. 2 looks like a twin to a 1895 Chile sporter in my safe. The big issue with the pre-1898 versions is the lack of the third lug. This lug, back at the handle, is not used for regular locking purposes but sole in case of catastrophic failure when it prevents the bolt from flying out of the receiver.
Now, it's unlikely that it will ever happen, but I decided that it's just not worth the risk to take that obsolete design and make it my first choice of hunting weapon, despite my love for the 7x57 round.

cracked butt · April 4, 2011, 07:02 PM

Kimber built their reputation on sporterizing M96s and converting them to calibers that go well beyond the pressures of the original chambering, such as .308. I wouldn't do that with a 95 or earlier- all of the m96s were made with Swedish steel which was stronger and more consistant than anything else available at the time.

I would shoot the 95 to see how it shoots- the 7x57 is a great cartridge within its limitations.

cracked butt · April 4, 2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

This lug, back at the handle, is not used for regular locking purposes but sole in case of catastrophic failure when it prevents the bolt from flying out of the receiver.
Now, it's unlikely that it will ever happen, but I decided that it's just not worth the risk to take that obsolete design and make it my first choice of hunting weapon, despite my love for the 7x57 round.

That 3rd lug is overrated.If you shoot something with enough energy to shear off the locking lugs, I don't think the 3rd lug is going to help you much either.

I shoot the heck out of my swedish mausers and never worry.
I've seen photos of a destroyed M96 once- some reloader who had no idea of what he was doing thought that if bullseye was 'safe' for pistols, stands to reason it that it should be safe to fill a rifle case with the stuff as well. The end result was that the lugs did shear, but the front of the bolt was blown upward, halting its rearward progress. The receiver ring was expanded and split, and most of the excess gas was vented down the magazine well and through the left side of the stock surrounding the magazine. The lucky so-and-so was only injured by powder burns and big wood splinters to his left arm.

Jim Watson · April 4, 2011, 07:25 PM

If you just must have something "modern" in that '95, the .257 Roberts is a well regarded cartridge that won't overstress a 7mm's action.
You should either be a handloader or have a large ammunition budget to depart very far from currently popular caliber.

bassfishindoc · April 4, 2011, 08:26 PM

Thanks for all the great replies. I have received several warning against .243 or 22-250 on the model 95 action so it is pretty clear to me that I will save those as possibilities for the model 98 action. I was looking at Shilen barrels at Midway and the only calibers they carry for the small ring Mauser Models 93, 94, 95, 96 are: 35 Remington, 300 Savage, 7x57mm Mauser, 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser, and 250 Savage. I would assume these calibers are safe for the action as they are the only ones they sell for it. If I am wrong in my assumption please let me know. Also, comments about the cartridges listed would be greatly appreciated. I have handloaded for about a year and a half so ammo availability is not an issue. I was wanting to turn the model 95 into a hunting rifle for deer or possibly varmints for my dad and was thinking the 250 Savage would do the job, but all of the cartridges listed are out of my area of expertise so any info on them would be great!

Jim Watson · April 4, 2011, 10:07 PM

It is ALREADY a 7x57, which is hard to beat. Is the bore good?

bassfishindoc · April 4, 2011, 10:28 PM

No the bore is not very good. It has some pitting and the rifling is a bit worn. Also, the crown is pretty beat up. I definitely want to re-barrel as I do not like the look of the military barrel in a sporter configuration and I really want to learn how to re-barrel a rifle myself. Military barrels are great in stock military rifles, but as I wish to build a hunting rifle, I want the sleek lines of sporter barrel.

Jim Watson · April 4, 2011, 10:42 PM

I think there is a Kuhnhausen book on Mausers.
Rebarrelling a bolt action rifle other than a Savage takes a good deal of tooling and knowhow. But then a Spanish Mauser is cheap enough to learn on.

PetahW · April 5, 2011, 06:58 PM

For the M95, I would rebarrel it either to the original 7x57, or the .250 Savage, and throw a full-length mannlicher-type stock on it.

The M98 can pretty much be rebarreled/chambered to whatever standard-length (.30-06/.270/.35Whelan) you desire, as there would be just about zero feeding/magazine, or pressure, issues.
There's also more variety in aftermarket triggers available for the M98 than the M95.

.

April 3, 2011, 07:13 PM	#7
bassfishindoc Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2010 Posts: 166	The bolt on the second rifle has a round profile so I guess that makes it a model 95. Were the model 93 and 95 just precursors to the Model 98? Were they used in WWI along with the 98, or in any other conflicts? Thanks for the info, keep it coming! __________________ 2LT United States Army NRA Life Member GOA Life Member East Tennessee State University Quillen College of Medicine

April 3, 2011, 08:30 PM	#9
bassfishindoc Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2010 Posts: 166	Thanks for the info cracked. With the differences in the design between the model 95 and 98, is the 95 a good candidate for building a hunting rifle? I have never built a rifle before and am really interested in the undertaking and having a long term project. I am not sure what modifications would need to be made to the bolt face, but is the 95 a good candidate for conversion to say, a 22-250, 243, or maybe something a bit more exotic? Are their any problems with the model 95 receivers similar to those of the low numbers Springfield 1903 receivers? __________________ 2LT United States Army NRA Life Member GOA Life Member East Tennessee State University Quillen College of Medicine

April 4, 2011, 05:03 PM	#11
bassfishindoc Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2010 Posts: 166	Hey Jim, there is nothing on the top of the receiver ring. I know my pictures are poor, what you are seeing in the pictures are a few slight gashes that are due to some rough handling in the past. I am ignorant to pre-WWII rifles. Was it customary for Germany to manufacture Mausers for other countries without any sort of crest, coat of arms, etc. on the top of the front ring? There is a small symbol on top of the barrel in front of the receiver ring. I cannot tell what it is and I cannot get a clear picture with my camera. It appears to be the same as the symbol preceding the serial number on the receiver. There is a flaming bomb on the bolt handle, but this may not help ID the rifle as the serial number on the bolt handle does not match the receiver or the barrel. __________________ 2LT United States Army NRA Life Member GOA Life Member East Tennessee State University Quillen College of Medicine

April 4, 2011, 05:46 PM	#12
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Your Nr. 2 looks like a twin to a 1895 Chile sporter in my safe. The big issue with the pre-1898 versions is the lack of the third lug. This lug, back at the handle, is not used for regular locking purposes but sole in case of catastrophic failure when it prevents the bolt from flying out of the receiver. Now, it's unlikely that it will ever happen, but I decided that it's just not worth the risk to take that obsolete design and make it my first choice of hunting weapon, despite my love for the 7x57 round. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

April 4, 2011, 08:26 PM	#16
bassfishindoc Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2010 Posts: 166	Thanks for all the great replies. I have received several warning against .243 or 22-250 on the model 95 action so it is pretty clear to me that I will save those as possibilities for the model 98 action. I was looking at Shilen barrels at Midway and the only calibers they carry for the small ring Mauser Models 93, 94, 95, 96 are: 35 Remington, 300 Savage, 7x57mm Mauser, 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser, and 250 Savage. I would assume these calibers are safe for the action as they are the only ones they sell for it. If I am wrong in my assumption please let me know. Also, comments about the cartridges listed would be greatly appreciated. I have handloaded for about a year and a half so ammo availability is not an issue. I was wanting to turn the model 95 into a hunting rifle for deer or possibly varmints for my dad and was thinking the 250 Savage would do the job, but all of the cartridges listed are out of my area of expertise so any info on them would be great! __________________ 2LT United States Army NRA Life Member GOA Life Member East Tennessee State University Quillen College of Medicine

April 3, 2011, 05:45 PM	#5
Goatwhiskers Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2009 Location: Batchelor, La. Posts: 579	Not an expert on all varieties, but rifle #1 is a model 98, presumably 8x57mm. Rifle #2 is either M93, M95, or M96, people more expert can probably tell better from your photos. Both appear to be in very good condition, I'd say you got a pretty good deal. Goatwhiskers

April 3, 2011, 06:57 PM	#6
cracked butt Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2001 Location: southeastern wisconsin Posts: 537	1st one is a GEW 98- which was the standard issue rifle of the Germans in WWI, its a model 98 action. Thew Danzig arsenal made more GEW-98s han any other German arsenal. From the looks of the stock on the second rifle, I'm pretty sure its a Mauser model 95. It could be a Mauser Model 93, the beset way to tell the difference is to pull the bolt and look at its bottom- a M93 will have a flat bottom and a M95 will have a round profile to the bolt. My bets are on the Model 95 though.

April 4, 2011, 02:29 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I would not recommend a Model 93 or 95 Mauser for high intensity cartridges like the .243 or .22-250. Those old rifles were designed around cartridges with pressures in the 40-45000 psi range. They won't "blow up" with hotter rounds, but they may not hold up as well as a Model 98 action, which also has a cock on opening bolt, usually preferred by Americans. I believe that is a Spanish rifle, but it is German made, which means it will not be questionable on hardness, a problem with Spanish-made rifles. Could you show a better picture of the top of the receiver ring? I can see something there but can't tell what it is. Jim

April 4, 2011, 07:02 PM	#13
cracked butt Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2001 Location: southeastern wisconsin Posts: 537	Kimber built their reputation on sporterizing M96s and converting them to calibers that go well beyond the pressures of the original chambering, such as .308. I wouldn't do that with a 95 or earlier- all of the m96s were made with Swedish steel which was stronger and more consistant than anything else available at the time. I would shoot the 95 to see how it shoots- the 7x57 is a great cartridge within its limitations.

April 4, 2011, 07:25 PM	#15
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	If you just must have something "modern" in that '95, the .257 Roberts is a well regarded cartridge that won't overstress a 7mm's action. You should either be a handloader or have a large ammunition budget to depart very far from currently popular caliber.

April 4, 2011, 10:07 PM	#17
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	It is ALREADY a 7x57, which is hard to beat. Is the bore good?

April 4, 2011, 10:28 PM	#18
bassfishindoc Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2010 Posts: 166	No the bore is not very good. It has some pitting and the rifling is a bit worn. Also, the crown is pretty beat up. I definitely want to re-barrel as I do not like the look of the military barrel in a sporter configuration and I really want to learn how to re-barrel a rifle myself. Military barrels are great in stock military rifles, but as I wish to build a hunting rifle, I want the sleek lines of sporter barrel. __________________ 2LT United States Army NRA Life Member GOA Life Member East Tennessee State University Quillen College of Medicine

April 4, 2011, 10:42 PM	#19
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	I think there is a Kuhnhausen book on Mausers. Rebarrelling a bolt action rifle other than a Savage takes a good deal of tooling and knowhow. But then a Spanish Mauser is cheap enough to learn on.

April 5, 2011, 06:58 PM	#20
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	For the M95, I would rebarrel it either to the original 7x57, or the .250 Savage, and throw a full-length mannlicher-type stock on it. The M98 can pretty much be rebarreled/chambered to whatever standard-length (.30-06/.270/.35Whelan) you desire, as there would be just about zero feeding/magazine, or pressure, issues. There's also more variety in aftermarket triggers available for the M98 than the M95. .