Can anyone give me parkerization tips?

Daren Thompson · March 18, 2002, 07:52 PM

I have just assembled a Browning M1919 semiauto and I need to parkerize it. I have purchased an Amer-Lene Gray solution. I plan on trying this on a propane BBQ grill . My question is does the pan have to be stainless steele? I don't care if it riuns the pan for cooking I just don't want it to mess up the gun. Is it really important to treat the gun within 1-2 hours of glass beading like the instructions say? I say this because I will probably have to glass bead the gun on day and soak another. What will happen if the parts happen to rub together during the process? Any more tips will be much appreciated.

Thanks
Daren

George Stringer · March 19, 2002, 06:47 AM

The pan doesn't have to be stainless. The reason folks use stainless is so that the tank itself won't parkerize. I've never used the Amerlene so I don't know how it acts but in standard parkerizing the steel fizzes while it's parking. If the whole tank was fizzing it might make it difficult to see what the gun parts are doing. I don't know why you would have to park it that quickly after blasting. Maybe there's a concern that the steel will begin to rust. You need room between the parts. If they're touching they may not park in those spots. George

stuckatwork · March 19, 2002, 09:36 AM

While we are on the subject, how does one get that grey-green color from parkerizing? The color I'm refering to is the greenish-grey you see on Garands.

I read somewhere that after the piece is pulled from the tanks and still hot, you smear cosmoline all over it. Any truth to this?

Badger Arms · March 19, 2002, 10:48 AM

From what my father told me, I assumed they dunked the parts in a melted cosmoline tank while still hot. Might be just what he heard too. Either way, the final step in parkerizing any part is to imerse it in some sort of preservant to fill the pores on the finish. Wonder if some teflon-based synthetic would work? If you are going to paint the part, it should be handled very little after parkerizing and then painted dry. The paint penetrates the pores for better adhesion.

4 Eyed Six Shooter · March 22, 2002, 01:36 AM

Use a stainless tank if you have one. I belive the type of solution you use dictates the color. You must parkerize soon after blasting or else surface rust will form. Do not touch the metal after blasting. The part goes into the solution and will start fizzing, when the fizzing stops you are done. Rinse in water and dry the part, then coat the entire part with Rig . Wipe the Rig off in about one hour and your ready to re assemble. Be sure to plug the bore before putting it into the solution. It really is a simple process. Be sure to keep the solution at the temp the instructions say to use. Putting a heavy sheet of metal under the tank helps to keep the temp consistent. Hope this helps-John K

Riss · March 23, 2002, 11:15 AM

From my experience a part should be absolutely clean. Scrub with a mild soap -water mix and wash. Then hold the parts in a container of cheap coleman fuel (white gas) to displace water and keep it from rusting until you can put them all into the Parker bath. I use Brownells original solution from the 'Parker"company. Supposedly the guy that invented it. Thew hard part is washing it off in water and getting it into the coleman fuel without rust showing up immediately. And I do mean immediately. Other hard part is transferring the parts from the gasoline tank to the Parker bath without blowing up. Turn out allfire and then remove and blow off any coleman fuel. Compressed air works great then get it all into the tank. Use cheap wooden food tongs to grab the parts and move them around. They won't scratch the surfaces. And good stainless pots wont get ruined. As long as you dont boil the solution too long with the crud that settles in the bottom. Actually the Parker stuff should never boil. Keep just shyof boiling. A $15 candy thermometer can keep you in range. As far as I know the oxidation of the cosmoline is what imparts some of the green cast seen on some older military guns. That and mony years of handling.

Contender · March 23, 2002, 09:25 PM

Hello All,

Very good info here. How does one remove Parkerizing? Is there a type of solvent that will do it or are we talking about sand/bead blasting the surface for removal?

Regards

Riss · March 25, 2002, 05:23 AM

Blasting works with a light coating. Or sandpaper (cringe). I don't know of any chemical that will remove it since it actually bonds to the steel at the molecular level.

Daren Thompson · March 25, 2002, 08:05 PM

Thanks all!! Where do you find a pan to do this? I do not really want to pay Brownells prices and my wife has lookd at Wallmart. Who would make a pan about 2.5 ft long, 1ft wide and 8" deep? If I do use steel with this affect the solution the first time it is used? In other words can I expect good results the first time?

Later
Daren

Romulus · March 30, 2002, 02:52 PM

Daren, just a few thoughts...I contacted the Parker Rust-Proof company in Cleveland a few months ago...they do produce the original zinc phosphate product (the original gray Parkerizing solution), as well as the newer manganese phosphate (the newer black phosphate coating.) They do not sell to the public. These chemical compositions are not covered by patent, so a number of outfits produce both zinc and manganese phosphate solutions. Brownells sells all of them. I'd be cautious about the Amerlene, as I was told by Brownell's own tech staff a few years ago that it will remove base metal and could affect tighter toleranced parts. Go with the original pure zinc phosphate. You can easily remove old parkerizing with naval jelly or Brownells "Steel White." Naval Jelly or any similar phosphoric acid-based cleaner would require the extra step of embrittlement relief, I think like baking the parts in a clean oven at about 200 degrees for about two hours - but please verify that with an archive search, keyword "hydrogen embrittlement relief."

I did a cosmoline bake on a parkerized shotgun, but did not get the anticipated results. I did get them though by leaving parts in cold cosmo for several months - not quite as green as I would have liked, but closer than the "clean" gray of the original finish. Hope you have a few months to spare

scottyo102 · January 26, 2009, 12:52 PM

New member here. Just wanted to give a little information on parkerizing. The process is very simple, and can be done with very little cost by pretty much anyone who can heat water ( pretty simple, right! ). A lot of the information in the thread is correct, but I can give a little more insight on the process because I use the chemicals for parkerizing. All you need is either the zinc or manganese concentrate. Palmetto Enterprises sells the concentrate that I have found to be some of the best around. No pretreatment or post treatment needed. Just mix the concentrate using the prescribed amount after the water temperature is up to 190 degrees F. You will need a stainless steel tank, porcelain pot, and pyrex glass container ( it needs to be big enough to completely submerse your parts- ie barrel, trigger housing, receiver, butt plate, etc. ). The trick is the removal of the prior finish. Glass beading works best because it gives a smoother finish, but bead blasting, sand blasting, or acid etching works good too. You need to re-parkerize within two hours after removal of the old finish, or oxidation will set in and you will have spotting or streaking in the parts, and the brown rust will return. After the parts are submerged in the solution/water mix, take them out and spary them with WD-40 and your done. To get the gray green look, you can coat the part with cosmoline or vaseline for 48 hours to achieve this olive green look. It's that simple.

glockster157 · January 26, 2009, 09:42 PM

I used to work at Ramo Manufacturng in Nashville and we built a lot of 50 cal machine gun barrels and parts. What they had me do is sand blast the parts, then take them straight to the tanks and use hangars to dip them into the solution. It was a large tank and they kept it at around 190-195 F during the day. The parts would fizz like crazy, when they stopped, I would take them out and blow them off with a air gun. Then I would dip them in a dark black mil spec oil and lay them on a drip pan to drain. Worked like a charm. I re-parkerized my Garand, several pistols, my old timer, couple hammers, whatever I could think of. I need to build a tank and buy a sandblaster....it is really easy.

Slopemeno · January 26, 2009, 11:23 PM

I've done a ton of parts in Amerline. It works fine- but be sure to use the Amerline seal when youre done.

We would bead-blast the parts with fine beads before we'd put them in the boil-out tank. The action while in the parkerizing solution was limited to a minor bubbling, but nothing serious. You could stand over the tank and watch the parts slowly "turn".

We would bead blast while the tanks were warming up, so the wait would be minimal. Usually, one the part was in the tank you'd find a fingerprint you didn't realize you'd left, so BACK to the bead blaster....You don't want the parts to touch anything, so a large supply of hemostats helps. Try to grab parts in less-than-obvious places.

Different metallurgy will sometimes give different results- so beware that things like a welded area, or the spot-heat treating on a 1911's slide-stop notch will sometimes show darker or lighter than the surrounding metal.

To remove parkerizing, bead blast, or polish the metal. Either will work, but yes, you're removing small amounts of base metal in either case.

For pans, Lab Safety Supply, Thermo-Fisher, and VWR all have stuff like that, but check out baking pans at the store.

FALPhil · January 27, 2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Palmetto Enterprises sells the concentrate that I have found to be some of the best around.

+1 on Palmetto Enterprises. I cannot tell you how many FALs I have parkerized with Palmetto's solutions that came out looking great.

Thoroughly degrease before blasting. I blast with aluminum oxide. I rinse with boiling water before I put the part in the tank. Keep the temperature in the tank up. Use a candy thermometer to monitor the temperature.

OUTDOORDAVE · January 29, 2009, 10:01 AM

I recently bought a Valkyrie Arms M3A1 and can tell you the workmanship on it is very good. Other than the issue with the dust cover not staying down it functions flawlessly (stays open fine when shooting - just looks like the spring below needs a bit more tension to keep it closed when you want it to). The entire lower is machined from a solid piece of metal (aluminum I believe but I don't have it here to check) and it's probably a lot heavier than the original. I ran 3 30 round mags through it in late December in 15 degree weather and it operated perfectly. The bolt, barrel and trigger assembly are very different from the original as it is a closed bolt - outside from the dust cover I don't believe there are any interchangable parts with a real grease gun. I've never seen a real one but am guessing it is built far better than the original stamped FA and expect it to outlive me.

VA isn't making any more of them so whatever's out there is it. One thing I can say is that it is an EXTREMELY fun and controllable gun to shoot!

Anyone got a line on some cheap 230 gr military ball 45 acp?

March 18, 2002, 07:52 PM	#1
Daren Thompson Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1998 Location: Elizabethtown,KY,USA Posts: 459	Can anyone give me parkerization tips? I have just assembled a Browning M1919 semiauto and I need to parkerize it. I have purchased an Amer-Lene Gray solution. I plan on trying this on a propane BBQ grill . My question is does the pan have to be stainless steele? I don't care if it riuns the pan for cooking I just don't want it to mess up the gun. Is it really important to treat the gun within 1-2 hours of glass beading like the instructions say? I say this because I will probably have to glass bead the gun on day and soak another. What will happen if the parts happen to rub together during the process? Any more tips will be much appreciated. Thanks Daren

March 19, 2002, 09:36 AM	#3
stuckatwork Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2000 Posts: 217	While we are on the subject, how does one get that grey-green color from parkerizing? The color I'm refering to is the greenish-grey you see on Garands. I read somewhere that after the piece is pulled from the tanks and still hot, you smear cosmoline all over it. Any truth to this? __________________ These are the words of Stuckatwork. They don't represent the views or opinions of my employers. They aren't that clever.

March 19, 2002, 10:48 AM	#4
Badger Arms Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2000 Location: Harnett County, NC Posts: 1,700	From what my father told me, I assumed they dunked the parts in a melted cosmoline tank while still hot. Might be just what he heard too. Either way, the final step in parkerizing any part is to imerse it in some sort of preservant to fill the pores on the finish. Wonder if some teflon-based synthetic would work? If you are going to paint the part, it should be handled very little after parkerizing and then painted dry. The paint penetrates the pores for better adhesion. __________________ We may or may not worship God, but John Moses Browning made sure we can choose.

March 22, 2002, 01:36 AM	#5
4 Eyed Six Shooter Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2001 Location: Idaho Posts: 105	Use a stainless tank if you have one. I belive the type of solution you use dictates the color. You must parkerize soon after blasting or else surface rust will form. Do not touch the metal after blasting. The part goes into the solution and will start fizzing, when the fizzing stops you are done. Rinse in water and dry the part, then coat the entire part with Rig . Wipe the Rig off in about one hour and your ready to re assemble. Be sure to plug the bore before putting it into the solution. It really is a simple process. Be sure to keep the solution at the temp the instructions say to use. Putting a heavy sheet of metal under the tank helps to keep the temp consistent. Hope this helps-John K __________________ www.savagegunsmithing.com Fight Crime-Shoot Back!!!! Anyone worth shooting is worth shooting more than once!!!

March 23, 2002, 11:15 AM	#6
Riss Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Eastern, PA, USA Posts: 147	parkerizing tips From my experience a part should be absolutely clean. Scrub with a mild soap -water mix and wash. Then hold the parts in a container of cheap coleman fuel (white gas) to displace water and keep it from rusting until you can put them all into the Parker bath. I use Brownells original solution from the 'Parker"company. Supposedly the guy that invented it. Thew hard part is washing it off in water and getting it into the coleman fuel without rust showing up immediately. And I do mean immediately. Other hard part is transferring the parts from the gasoline tank to the Parker bath without blowing up. Turn out allfire and then remove and blow off any coleman fuel. Compressed air works great then get it all into the tank. Use cheap wooden food tongs to grab the parts and move them around. They won't scratch the surfaces. And good stainless pots wont get ruined. As long as you dont boil the solution too long with the crud that settles in the bottom. Actually the Parker stuff should never boil. Keep just shyof boiling. A $15 candy thermometer can keep you in range. As far as I know the oxidation of the cosmoline is what imparts some of the green cast seen on some older military guns. That and mony years of handling. __________________ An X is still an X with a Quarter Inch group at 100 yards With a Quarter Inch Group on the keyboard an X could be - Z,S,D, or C. I am a quarter inch typist - Please excuse the errors!

March 19, 2002, 06:47 AM	#2
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	The pan doesn't have to be stainless. The reason folks use stainless is so that the tank itself won't parkerize. I've never used the Amerlene so I don't know how it acts but in standard parkerizing the steel fizzes while it's parking. If the whole tank was fizzing it might make it difficult to see what the gun parts are doing. I don't know why you would have to park it that quickly after blasting. Maybe there's a concern that the steel will begin to rust. You need room between the parts. If they're touching they may not park in those spots. George

March 23, 2002, 09:25 PM	#7
Contender Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1998 Location: NY Posts: 680	Hello All, Very good info here. How does one remove Parkerizing? Is there a type of solvent that will do it or are we talking about sand/bead blasting the surface for removal? Regards

March 25, 2002, 05:23 AM	#8
Riss Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Eastern, PA, USA Posts: 147	Blasting works with a light coating. Or sandpaper (cringe). I don't know of any chemical that will remove it since it actually bonds to the steel at the molecular level. __________________ An X is still an X with a Quarter Inch group at 100 yards With a Quarter Inch Group on the keyboard an X could be - Z,S,D, or C. I am a quarter inch typist - Please excuse the errors!

March 25, 2002, 08:05 PM	#9
Daren Thompson Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1998 Location: Elizabethtown,KY,USA Posts: 459	Thanks all!! Where do you find a pan to do this? I do not really want to pay Brownells prices and my wife has lookd at Wallmart. Who would make a pan about 2.5 ft long, 1ft wide and 8" deep? If I do use steel with this affect the solution the first time it is used? In other words can I expect good results the first time? Later Daren

March 30, 2002, 02:52 PM	#10
Romulus Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2001 Location: Kettle Moraine country Posts: 897	Daren, just a few thoughts...I contacted the Parker Rust-Proof company in Cleveland a few months ago...they do produce the original zinc phosphate product (the original gray Parkerizing solution), as well as the newer manganese phosphate (the newer black phosphate coating.) They do not sell to the public. These chemical compositions are not covered by patent, so a number of outfits produce both zinc and manganese phosphate solutions. Brownells sells all of them. I'd be cautious about the Amerlene, as I was told by Brownell's own tech staff a few years ago that it will remove base metal and could affect tighter toleranced parts. Go with the original pure zinc phosphate. You can easily remove old parkerizing with naval jelly or Brownells "Steel White." Naval Jelly or any similar phosphoric acid-based cleaner would require the extra step of embrittlement relief, I think like baking the parts in a clean oven at about 200 degrees for about two hours - but please verify that with an archive search, keyword "hydrogen embrittlement relief." I did a cosmoline bake on a parkerized shotgun, but did not get the anticipated results. I did get them though by leaving parts in cold cosmo for several months - not quite as green as I would have liked, but closer than the "clean" gray of the original finish. Hope you have a few months to spare __________________ I knew Thomas Jefferson, he was a friend of mine...Governor Clinton, you're no Thomas Jefferson Ti faccio vedere come muore un italiano

January 26, 2009, 12:52 PM	#11
scottyo102 Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 1	Parkerizing New member here. Just wanted to give a little information on parkerizing. The process is very simple, and can be done with very little cost by pretty much anyone who can heat water ( pretty simple, right! ). A lot of the information in the thread is correct, but I can give a little more insight on the process because I use the chemicals for parkerizing. All you need is either the zinc or manganese concentrate. Palmetto Enterprises sells the concentrate that I have found to be some of the best around. No pretreatment or post treatment needed. Just mix the concentrate using the prescribed amount after the water temperature is up to 190 degrees F. You will need a stainless steel tank, porcelain pot, and pyrex glass container ( it needs to be big enough to completely submerse your parts- ie barrel, trigger housing, receiver, butt plate, etc. ). The trick is the removal of the prior finish. Glass beading works best because it gives a smoother finish, but bead blasting, sand blasting, or acid etching works good too. You need to re-parkerize within two hours after removal of the old finish, or oxidation will set in and you will have spotting or streaking in the parts, and the brown rust will return. After the parts are submerged in the solution/water mix, take them out and spary them with WD-40 and your done. To get the gray green look, you can coat the part with cosmoline or vaseline for 48 hours to achieve this olive green look. It's that simple.

January 26, 2009, 09:42 PM	#12
glockster157 Member Join Date: January 31, 2007 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 37	I used to work at Ramo Manufacturng in Nashville and we built a lot of 50 cal machine gun barrels and parts. What they had me do is sand blast the parts, then take them straight to the tanks and use hangars to dip them into the solution. It was a large tank and they kept it at around 190-195 F during the day. The parts would fizz like crazy, when they stopped, I would take them out and blow them off with a air gun. Then I would dip them in a dark black mil spec oil and lay them on a drip pan to drain. Worked like a charm. I re-parkerized my Garand, several pistols, my old timer, couple hammers, whatever I could think of. I need to build a tank and buy a sandblaster....it is really easy. __________________ . . For the law was given through Moses but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:17

January 26, 2009, 11:23 PM	#13
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	I've done a ton of parts in Amerline. It works fine- but be sure to use the Amerline seal when youre done. We would bead-blast the parts with fine beads before we'd put them in the boil-out tank. The action while in the parkerizing solution was limited to a minor bubbling, but nothing serious. You could stand over the tank and watch the parts slowly "turn". We would bead blast while the tanks were warming up, so the wait would be minimal. Usually, one the part was in the tank you'd find a fingerprint you didn't realize you'd left, so BACK to the bead blaster....You don't want the parts to touch anything, so a large supply of hemostats helps. Try to grab parts in less-than-obvious places. Different metallurgy will sometimes give different results- so beware that things like a welded area, or the spot-heat treating on a 1911's slide-stop notch will sometimes show darker or lighter than the surrounding metal. To remove parkerizing, bead blast, or polish the metal. Either will work, but yes, you're removing small amounts of base metal in either case. For pans, Lab Safety Supply, Thermo-Fisher, and VWR all have stuff like that, but check out baking pans at the store.

January 29, 2009, 10:01 AM	#15
OUTDOORDAVE Junior Member Join Date: January 29, 2009 Posts: 2	Valkyrie Arms M3A1 I recently bought a Valkyrie Arms M3A1 and can tell you the workmanship on it is very good. Other than the issue with the dust cover not staying down it functions flawlessly (stays open fine when shooting - just looks like the spring below needs a bit more tension to keep it closed when you want it to). The entire lower is machined from a solid piece of metal (aluminum I believe but I don't have it here to check) and it's probably a lot heavier than the original. I ran 3 30 round mags through it in late December in 15 degree weather and it operated perfectly. The bolt, barrel and trigger assembly are very different from the original as it is a closed bolt - outside from the dust cover I don't believe there are any interchangable parts with a real grease gun. I've never seen a real one but am guessing it is built far better than the original stamped FA and expect it to outlive me. VA isn't making any more of them so whatever's out there is it. One thing I can say is that it is an EXTREMELY fun and controllable gun to shoot! Anyone got a line on some cheap 230 gr military ball 45 acp?