.357 Mag. Velocities

Cheapo · April 21, 1999, 09:37 PM

As my search for a substitute powder for WW296 in the .357 Mag has degressed (sideways version of progressed...), I'm wondering what speeds our members are getting with various powders.

Published vs. actual experience is what I'm after.

My focus is on the 125-gr JHP, especially Hornady XTPs. 6" S&W large-frame, Max load of 296 yields @1450 fps for me.

So, what are we getting with other powders? 4-inch and 6-inch data is of the greatest interest.

TIA,
Cheapo

JA · April 24, 1999, 07:39 AM

rem.125 hp max ww-296 S&W 28 6" 1630fps
same load marlin 1894cs 2460fps

Cheapo · April 26, 1999, 11:20 AM

Thanks!

Just chrono'd two loads in three guns a few days ago. Looks like my M-28 shoots SLOW! One load was @1375 fps, but was @1515 in a newer 686 (which showed hints of pressure). Even a 4" Mod. 19 yielded speeds @25 fps faster than the Mod. 28.

Long ago, with .38 Spl. +P factory, that Mod. 28 was only @ 25 fps slower than the 686.

JA · April 26, 1999, 04:19 PM

Checked model 28 it had .004 cylinder gap.My other model 28 had .006 gap. .004 gap is the one I got readings I posted. I also put a heavy crimp on all mag loads. Check your cylinder gap I bet it is .006 or more.

zot · April 26, 1999, 11:20 PM

I get 1500 average in my Ruger GP-100 6" barrel with 125 gr HP using 14.5 grs Bluedot,
and thats hot and primer is enlarged after
firing, Winchester magnum primers ,this data
is from Speer reloading manual #11, and MAX
load is 16.3 gr Bluedot,now Speers #13 manual
lists MAX as 13 grains of Bluedot!!!

Cheapo · April 27, 1999, 04:11 PM

Zot:

Whoa!!! Looks like maybe I need to get that Speer #13. What do they list as max these days for 296, in 125-gr & 146-gr .357s?

I've used 20.5/125-gr only with Win cases because the Rem's showed flat primers, and 18.5 with the Speer 146-gr SWC-JHP. Should I be glad they've all been shot only in a large-frame gun?

What's that manual running these days? Gotta save my pennies...

They wouldn't happen to have Alliant Power Pistol in their .357 section, would they?

Thanks!

ClydeVA · May 17, 1999, 08:50 PM

BlueDot 14.5 out of a 2.5" 686 (1325-1350)Love it. I use this load for IDPA. If you use this load you will remember it.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/

I use the catalog provided by the company who makes the powder.

[This message has been edited by ClydeVA (edited May 17, 1999).]

NJW · May 18, 1999, 10:22 AM

Cheapo,
I am curious why you are looking to find a substitute for Win 296? Is there something wrong with 296 for magnum pistol rounds?

Just Wondering

NJW in AZ

Cheapo · May 18, 1999, 03:34 PM

Two problems:

1. The muzzle flash is enormous. I am confident enough in the .357 and my ability to place its shots that I wish to be able to use it for defense. I wish to preserve nighttime visual acuity if I need to launch one under the streetlights.

2. It takes a LOT of the stuff to get the velocities I like. In many guns, it gives more speed than I want... But anyway, I can cut my powder costs by about 40% on my reloads, just by charge weight alone. Olin powders tend to run $3 more per pound here, too.

So, I'm after less flash and lower charge weights. Just might go to Unique if this Power Pistol thing doesn't work out. Just about the only data out there is from Alliant, and I have reason to believe that either their velocity claims are over-stated, or their test piece produces abnormally high pressures.

Realistic velocity expectations is why I originally posted. As Alliant's data shows very similar velocities with Unique, I hoped to find out what people were actually getting. Then I could have a better idea of what to expect from PP.

Had hoped that Hornady had done their own load development with XTPs--different bullets sometimes allow somewhat heavier charges than the bullets the powder maker tested with(*). But alas, Hornady just forwarded me the Alliant loading guide.

(*)Witness Olin/Winchester, which lists 18.5 gr. 296 under a 125-gr pill in .357 Magnum, with firm instructions to use exactly, with no reduction. Other books show between 19.5 and 20.5 of 296 for their max loads. Since the Olin guide also shows a pretty mild pressure for their "take it or leave it" load, I believe the other books' loads are safe *-*for the bullets/cases/primers used.*-* The 20.5 max, I've heard, has been scaled back to 20.0 in a later edition...

April 21, 1999, 09:37 PM	#1
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	As my search for a substitute powder for WW296 in the .357 Mag has degressed (sideways version of progressed...), I'm wondering what speeds our members are getting with various powders. Published vs. actual experience is what I'm after. My focus is on the 125-gr JHP, especially Hornady XTPs. 6" S&W large-frame, Max load of 296 yields @1450 fps for me. So, what are we getting with other powders? 4-inch and 6-inch data is of the greatest interest. TIA, Cheapo

April 24, 1999, 07:39 AM	#2
JA Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: JACKSONVILLE,AR,USA Posts: 68	rem.125 hp max ww-296 S&W 28 6" 1630fps same load marlin 1894cs 2460fps

April 26, 1999, 11:20 AM	#3
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Thanks! Just chrono'd two loads in three guns a few days ago. Looks like my M-28 shoots SLOW! One load was @1375 fps, but was @1515 in a newer 686 (which showed hints of pressure). Even a 4" Mod. 19 yielded speeds @25 fps faster than the Mod. 28. Long ago, with .38 Spl. +P factory, that Mod. 28 was only @ 25 fps slower than the 686.

April 26, 1999, 04:19 PM	#4
JA Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: JACKSONVILLE,AR,USA Posts: 68	Checked model 28 it had .004 cylinder gap.My other model 28 had .006 gap. .004 gap is the one I got readings I posted. I also put a heavy crimp on all mag loads. Check your cylinder gap I bet it is .006 or more.

April 26, 1999, 11:20 PM	#5
zot Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 1999 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 566	I get 1500 average in my Ruger GP-100 6" barrel with 125 gr HP using 14.5 grs Bluedot, and thats hot and primer is enlarged after firing, Winchester magnum primers ,this data is from Speer reloading manual #11, and MAX load is 16.3 gr Bluedot,now Speers #13 manual lists MAX as 13 grains of Bluedot!!!

April 27, 1999, 04:11 PM	#6
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Zot: Whoa!!! Looks like maybe I need to get that Speer #13. What do they list as max these days for 296, in 125-gr & 146-gr .357s? I've used 20.5/125-gr only with Win cases because the Rem's showed flat primers, and 18.5 with the Speer 146-gr SWC-JHP. Should I be glad they've all been shot only in a large-frame gun? What's that manual running these days? Gotta save my pennies... They wouldn't happen to have Alliant Power Pistol in their .357 section, would they? Thanks!

May 17, 1999, 08:50 PM	#7
ClydeVA Member Join Date: February 24, 1999 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 48	BlueDot 14.5 out of a 2.5" 686 (1325-1350)Love it. I use this load for IDPA. If you use this load you will remember it. http://www.alliantpowder.com/ I use the catalog provided by the company who makes the powder. [This message has been edited by ClydeVA (edited May 17, 1999).]

May 18, 1999, 10:22 AM	#8
NJW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 1998 Location: SouthWest Posts: 204	Cheapo, I am curious why you are looking to find a substitute for Win 296? Is there something wrong with 296 for magnum pistol rounds? Just Wondering NJW in AZ

May 18, 1999, 03:34 PM	#9
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Two problems: 1. The muzzle flash is enormous. I am confident enough in the .357 and my ability to place its shots that I wish to be able to use it for defense. I wish to preserve nighttime visual acuity if I need to launch one under the streetlights. 2. It takes a LOT of the stuff to get the velocities I like. In many guns, it gives more speed than I want... But anyway, I can cut my powder costs by about 40% on my reloads, just by charge weight alone. Olin powders tend to run $3 more per pound here, too. So, I'm after less flash and lower charge weights. Just might go to Unique if this Power Pistol thing doesn't work out. Just about the only data out there is from Alliant, and I have reason to believe that either their velocity claims are over-stated, or their test piece produces abnormally high pressures. Realistic velocity expectations is why I originally posted. As Alliant's data shows very similar velocities with Unique, I hoped to find out what people were actually getting. Then I could have a better idea of what to expect from PP. Had hoped that Hornady had done their own load development with XTPs--different bullets sometimes allow somewhat heavier charges than the bullets the powder maker tested with(). But alas, Hornady just forwarded me the Alliant loading guide. ()Witness Olin/Winchester, which lists 18.5 gr. 296 under a 125-gr pill in .357 Magnum, with firm instructions to use exactly, with no reduction. Other books show between 19.5 and 20.5 of 296 for their max loads. Since the Olin guide also shows a pretty mild pressure for their "take it or leave it" load, I believe the other books' loads are safe -for the bullets/cases/primers used.- The 20.5 max, I've heard, has been scaled back to 20.0 in a later edition...