HAP 45 auto 185 grain OAL problem

TheFineLine · December 29, 2014, 02:56 PM

I'm setting up my dies for the first time. I have some new starline brass and Hornady HAP 185 grain bullets. The Hornady manual lists the OAL at 1.130. Problem is if I set it at that limit the top of the shoulder is just below the case mouth and when I go to crimp it just pushes the bullet even deeper. What am I missing/doing wrong?

9miller · December 29, 2014, 05:00 PM

The OAL listed in reloading manuals is a suggested minimum. I, and am sure others as well, always try to seat the bullet as long as possible while still being able to load into a magazine and feed reliably. If you change your seating depth, pressure WILL change. Seating deeper tends to increase pressure and seating longer tends to decrease pressure, with all else being equal.
My suggestion is for you to make a dummy round, no primer or powder, and seat the bullet as long as possible. See if it fits in the magazine, if not, keep seating deeper until it does. Then check to see if it chambers into your gun, if it does, you have your seating depth, if not, seat deeper until it does so. You now have the seating depth of YOUR gun with that bullet. Now you may work out loads to test within published data.

rg1 · December 29, 2014, 05:01 PM

I think you either have a typo or your seating your 185 hap bullets too deep. They are basically the same bullet as the 185 XTP-HP without the cuts to make it expand. Most data I see for 185 XTP's list the overall length from 1.200" to 1.210". Load data for the XTP-HP should work with your HAP bullets. I recommend seating and crimping in separate steps. Not required but does a better job. Back your seating die out so that the case won't be crimped and screw the seater stem in to where it seats bullets to 1.210". Seat all bullets. Then back the seater stem several turns out away from the bullet. Adjust the seating die in to where it taper crimps the case just enough to take the belling out of the case neck. The "shoulder" you mention on the bullet where the taper stops, should be outside the case neck a little.

Wreck-n-Crew · December 29, 2014, 06:48 PM

If you set the seating depth then adjusted your crimp on a lee 3 die set without holding the seating die knob to keep it from moving then the bullet will seat deeper. If crimp is fine just readjust seating die to desired depth.

TheFineLine · December 29, 2014, 08:44 PM

RG1 you are correct, I was mistaken this morning. The manual and my notes have it at 1.214. It is still too deep. 9Miller, I'm going to try that test tonight. Crew, I was working on it the other way around following the Hornady video. It makes sense to adjust the crimp then the seating depth. I will try that as well.

higgite · December 30, 2014, 01:14 AM

1. Check your case length; max .898"; trim length .893"
2. Make sure your primers aren't standing "proud". If not seated to at least even with case head, they will add false length to the OAL measurement.
3. My Hornady 9th Ed. manual says OAL of 1.213" for XTP. The HAP is the same bullet without the folds and cannelure of the XTP, so same OAL is appropriate.

December 29, 2014, 02:56 PM	#1
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	HAP 45 auto 185 grain OAL problem I'm setting up my dies for the first time. I have some new starline brass and Hornady HAP 185 grain bullets. The Hornady manual lists the OAL at 1.130. Problem is if I set it at that limit the top of the shoulder is just below the case mouth and when I go to crimp it just pushes the bullet even deeper. What am I missing/doing wrong?

December 29, 2014, 05:01 PM	#3
rg1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 1,125	I think you either have a typo or your seating your 185 hap bullets too deep. They are basically the same bullet as the 185 XTP-HP without the cuts to make it expand. Most data I see for 185 XTP's list the overall length from 1.200" to 1.210". Load data for the XTP-HP should work with your HAP bullets. I recommend seating and crimping in separate steps. Not required but does a better job. Back your seating die out so that the case won't be crimped and screw the seater stem in to where it seats bullets to 1.210". Seat all bullets. Then back the seater stem several turns out away from the bullet. Adjust the seating die in to where it taper crimps the case just enough to take the belling out of the case neck. The "shoulder" you mention on the bullet where the taper stops, should be outside the case neck a little. Last edited by rg1; December 29, 2014 at 05:11 PM.

December 29, 2014, 06:48 PM	#4
Wreck-n-Crew Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,820	If you set the seating depth then adjusted your crimp on a lee 3 die set without holding the seating die knob to keep it from moving then the bullet will seat deeper. If crimp is fine just readjust seating die to desired depth. __________________ If you ever have to use a firearm, *you don't get to pick the scenario!*

December 29, 2014, 05:00 PM	#2
9miller Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 169	The OAL listed in reloading manuals is a suggested minimum. I, and am sure others as well, always try to seat the bullet as long as possible while still being able to load into a magazine and feed reliably. If you change your seating depth, pressure WILL change. Seating deeper tends to increase pressure and seating longer tends to decrease pressure, with all else being equal. My suggestion is for you to make a dummy round, no primer or powder, and seat the bullet as long as possible. See if it fits in the magazine, if not, keep seating deeper until it does. Then check to see if it chambers into your gun, if it does, you have your seating depth, if not, seat deeper until it does so. You now have the seating depth of YOUR gun with that bullet. Now you may work out loads to test within published data.

December 29, 2014, 08:44 PM	#5
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	RG1 you are correct, I was mistaken this morning. The manual and my notes have it at 1.214. It is still too deep. 9Miller, I'm going to try that test tonight. Crew, I was working on it the other way around following the Hornady video. It makes sense to adjust the crimp then the seating depth. I will try that as well.

December 30, 2014, 01:14 AM	#6
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	1. Check your case length; max .898"; trim length .893" 2. Make sure your primers aren't standing "proud". If not seated to at least even with case head, they will add false length to the OAL measurement. 3. My Hornady 9th Ed. manual says OAL of 1.213" for XTP. The HAP is the same bullet without the folds and cannelure of the XTP, so same OAL is appropriate.