An antique "HandMade/HomeMade" gun?

Buckaretta · September 6, 2012, 02:22 AM

Came across a shotgun tonight that I'm itching to buy. Antique shotgun with a blonde stock. Seller says its a hunting gun from the late 1700 or 1800s (I forget exactly which. I'll have all the information about said gun soon. Now, it is handmade/homemade. No manufacturers mark except for some marks in the stock. How would I go about finding a value on a firearm like this? This is one of those guns that I would love to keep for myself, but am anxious to find the value on.

PetahW · September 6, 2012, 07:46 AM

It's exact value is whatever somebody will actually pay, and not a penny more.

.

noelf2 · September 6, 2012, 08:01 AM

IMHO, the only real value would be in the history of the gun. Without that, it's a mystery wall hanger. Should be easy to tell if it's late 1700's or late 1800's. If it's flintlock, it's probably the former but without the history, that's just a guess. Most likely it's a parts gun. Post some pictures when you can.

Winchester_73 · September 6, 2012, 08:41 AM

Quote:

It's exact value is whatever somebody will actually pay, and not a penny more.

Doesn't that go without saying? Is that not true for every single anything that has any monetary value?

Nothing personal petah, as everyone says it but I never understood why people say it. Whether you ask $700 for a $500 gun and hope to find the one guy who doesn't know prices who will buy, or whether you ask $250 for a $500 gun which many will people buy, the item is always worth what someone is willing to pay. Its a circular statement of sorts.

To me its akin to saying "you might have trouble shooting an unloaded firearm" - something thats true on the suface, but also doesn't help anyone with anything. The statement is considered insightful, but its not, IMO.

Rifleman1776 · September 6, 2012, 09:11 AM

Calling it a "hunting gun" only means the seller doesn't know what it is.
A picture and more info would be helpful.

James K · September 6, 2012, 02:42 PM

It is probably not "home made" if by that is meant made by someone in his own home for his own use. It probably was made, or partially made, by a gunsmith who made his living making guns. Depending on the era, it could have been mostly made by that smith or merely fitted and assembled from factory made parts in the same way custom gun makers do today.

Jim

RJay · September 6, 2012, 05:19 PM

And with out pictures, it may turn out to be a fence post.

PetahW · September 6, 2012, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Doesn't that go without saying? Is that not true for every single anything that has any monetary value?

Nothing personal petah, as everyone says it but I never understood why people say it. Whether you ask $700 for a $500 gun and hope to find the one guy who doesn't know prices who will buy, or whether you ask $250 for a $500 gun which many will people buy, the item is always worth what someone is willing to pay. Its a circular statement of sorts.

To me its akin to saying "you might have trouble shooting an unloaded firearm" - something thats true on the suface, but also doesn't help anyone with anything. The statement is considered insightful, but its not, IMO.

YMMV, I guess - IMO, it was a polite way to avoid putting a low/insulting value on an undetermined "something", vaguely described for a value.

Of course, my opinion's also worth exactly what's paid for it.

.

.

James K · September 6, 2012, 07:36 PM

I threw away an old gun the other day, what a fake! Everyone with any gun smarts knows Colt is in Hartford, CT, not Paterson, NJ. Geeze, the junk some people have laying around that they think is valuable.

Jim

noelf2 · September 7, 2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

I threw away an old gun the other day, what a fake! Everyone with any gun smarts knows Colt is in Hartford, CT, not Paterson, NJ. Geeze, the junk some people have laying around that they think is valuable.

LOL

bedbugbilly · September 7, 2012, 01:30 PM

Flintlock or percussion . . . or converted to percussion from flint?

Single barrel or double barrel . . octagon or round or octagon to round?

Wood that stock is made from . . . walnut, cherry, maple or what?

Actually a smoothbore or a rifle?

Type of furniture . . . i.e. brass or steel?

Fullstock or halfstock?

Original or repairs . . . cleaned or in original state?

Before shelling out $$$ on any antique weapon you need to educate yourself on these types of things . . . . I'm not being critical in that remark, I'm being realistic. It can save you from making some very serious mistakes and overpaying for something that is not worth a whole lot. From your description and what the seller says, it doesn't appear as if he is very knowledgeable about it either. What is believed to be an "antique" could end up being nothing more than a cobbled up gun made out of old parts that are "married" or a reproduction that has been "aged" and represented to be an "original antique".
Oftentimes, someone will find an old gun and try to make it look nice by "cleaning it up". In essence, they are ruining the value in removing the old patina and many times, removing markings by getting carried away with emery cloth. All of these things will affect the value.

If you can post some photos, it will make it easier to determine just what it is. No photos . . . it's anyone's guess.

chiefr · September 7, 2012, 02:17 PM

" A picture is worth a thousand words"

TX Hunter · September 8, 2012, 11:15 AM

I really hope you are kidding, the first Colt Manufacturing facility was in Patterson NJ. Throwing one of those guns away would be like throwing away a Winning Lottery Ticket.:

Winchester_73 · September 8, 2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

I really hope you are kidding, the first Colt Manufacturing facility was in Patterson NJ. Throwing one of those guns away would be like throwing away a Winning Lottery Ticket.

One thing you learn after reading a lot of James K's posts: Don't put anything past him!

I'm in the process of going through his garbage now.

James K · September 8, 2012, 07:20 PM

Yep, I was kidding. BTW, Paterson, NJ, is spelled with one "t".

There was a cartoon in one of the collector magazines years ago showing a man looking at a revolver at a gun show table. "Of course it's genuine," the dealer is saying, pointing at the gun. "Right here on the barrel it says, 'Patent Arms M'g Co. Paterson, N.J. 07501'."

Jim

**4V50 Gary** · September 9, 2012, 09:56 AM

James K - that was funny.

m.p.driver · September 9, 2012, 10:07 AM

Friend owns a bar,that over the downstairs bar there hung an old percussion rifle.Swore it was a genuine Kentucky and he was going to retire on the proceeds of it's sale.After hearing this several times i jumped up and took it down.After a glance i put it back in place and told my friend don't quit his day job.Real 1840's Kentucky's weren't marked Spain-Jukar and I'd give him $50 for it.

Buckaretta · September 26, 2012, 12:04 AM

noelf2 · September 26, 2012, 08:56 AM

Buck your pic ain't working.

James K · September 26, 2012, 11:05 AM

I doubt even a genuine "Kentucky" would bring anywhere near enough to retire. Most run around $5000 even in very good condition. Not pocket change, but not retirement money, either.

Jim

saltydog452 · September 26, 2012, 12:57 PM

History has value.

sd.

September 6, 2012, 02:22 AM	#1
Buckaretta Junior Member Join Date: September 6, 2012 Location: Santa Clarita, CA Posts: 2	An antique "HandMade/HomeMade" gun? Came across a shotgun tonight that I'm itching to buy. Antique shotgun with a blonde stock. Seller says its a hunting gun from the late 1700 or 1800s (I forget exactly which. I'll have all the information about said gun soon. Now, it is handmade/homemade. No manufacturers mark except for some marks in the stock. How would I go about finding a value on a firearm like this? This is one of those guns that I would love to keep for myself, but am anxious to find the value on.

September 6, 2012, 08:01 AM	#3
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	IMHO, the only real value would be in the history of the gun. Without that, it's a mystery wall hanger. Should be easy to tell if it's late 1700's or late 1800's. If it's flintlock, it's probably the former but without the history, that's just a guess. Most likely it's a parts gun. Post some pictures when you can. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

September 6, 2012, 05:19 PM	#7
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	And with out pictures, it may turn out to be a fence post. __________________ Ron James

September 7, 2012, 01:30 PM	#11
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Flintlock or percussion . . . or converted to percussion from flint? Single barrel or double barrel . . octagon or round or octagon to round? Wood that stock is made from . . . walnut, cherry, maple or what? Actually a smoothbore or a rifle? Type of furniture . . . i.e. brass or steel? Fullstock or halfstock? Original or repairs . . . cleaned or in original state? Before shelling out $$$ on any antique weapon you need to educate yourself on these types of things . . . . I'm not being critical in that remark, I'm being realistic. It can save you from making some very serious mistakes and overpaying for something that is not worth a whole lot. From your description and what the seller says, it doesn't appear as if he is very knowledgeable about it either. What is believed to be an "antique" could end up being nothing more than a cobbled up gun made out of old parts that are "married" or a reproduction that has been "aged" and represented to be an "original antique". Oftentimes, someone will find an old gun and try to make it look nice by "cleaning it up". In essence, they are ruining the value in removing the old patina and many times, removing markings by getting carried away with emery cloth. All of these things will affect the value. If you can post some photos, it will make it easier to determine just what it is. No photos . . . it's anyone's guess. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

September 8, 2012, 11:15 AM	#13
TX Hunter Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2010 Location: East Texas USA Posts: 1,805	James K I really hope you are kidding, the first Colt Manufacturing facility was in Patterson NJ. Throwing one of those guns away would be like throwing away a Winning Lottery Ticket.:

September 6, 2012, 07:46 AM	#2
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	It's exact value is whatever somebody will actually pay, and not a penny more. .

September 6, 2012, 09:11 AM	#5
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	Calling it a "hunting gun" only means the seller doesn't know what it is. A picture and more info would be helpful.

September 6, 2012, 02:42 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It is probably not "home made" if by that is meant made by someone in his own home for his own use. It probably was made, or partially made, by a gunsmith who made his living making guns. Depending on the era, it could have been mostly made by that smith or merely fitted and assembled from factory made parts in the same way custom gun makers do today. Jim

September 6, 2012, 07:36 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I threw away an old gun the other day, what a fake! Everyone with any gun smarts knows Colt is in Hartford, CT, not Paterson, NJ. Geeze, the junk some people have laying around that they think is valuable. Jim

September 7, 2012, 02:17 PM	#12
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	" A picture is worth a thousand words"

September 8, 2012, 07:20 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Yep, I was kidding. BTW, Paterson, NJ, is spelled with one "t". There was a cartoon in one of the collector magazines years ago showing a man looking at a revolver at a gun show table. "Of course it's genuine," the dealer is saying, pointing at the gun. "Right here on the barrel it says, 'Patent Arms M'g Co. Paterson, N.J. 07501'." Jim

September 9, 2012, 09:56 AM	#16
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	James K - that was funny. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 9, 2012, 10:07 AM	#17
m.p.driver Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 552	Friend owns a bar,that over the downstairs bar there hung an old percussion rifle.Swore it was a genuine Kentucky and he was going to retire on the proceeds of it's sale.After hearing this several times i jumped up and took it down.After a glance i put it back in place and told my friend don't quit his day job.Real 1840's Kentucky's weren't marked Spain-Jukar and I'd give him $50 for it.

September 26, 2012, 12:04 AM	#18
Buckaretta Junior Member Join Date: September 6, 2012 Location: Santa Clarita, CA Posts: 2

September 26, 2012, 08:56 AM	#19
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Buck your pic ain't working. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

September 26, 2012, 11:05 AM	#20
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I doubt even a genuine "Kentucky" would bring anywhere near enough to retire. Most run around $5000 even in very good condition. Not pocket change, but not retirement money, either. Jim

September 26, 2012, 12:57 PM	#21
saltydog452 Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2004 Posts: 516	History has value. sd.

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