Ever seen this phenomenon with deer guts?

FirstFreedom · November 21, 2006, 03:13 PM

When I gutted this doe this weekend, after all guts removed, I'm sitting there staring at the gut pile, and as sure as I'm writing this, the small intestines are moving and writhing all over as if it were a pile of living worms. The deer seemed completely dead. I waited a few seconds to make sure it wasn't just gravity causing the intestines to shift, but it was something else - it kept up for over a minute before I went ahead and got up to start dragging. But it was very creepy - moving like snakes or worms. Ever seen this? This did not happen with this weekend's buck or other deer I've gotten.

P.S. Can anyone tell me, among the deer internal organs, what in the heck is this organ which I have been calling (made up by me) the "second liver". It's not part of the liver, but it is exactly like it, only quite a bit smaller - it's separate from the liver itself, but the same color and texture - looks just like a single lobe off of the liver which has been separated. Should I start taking that too, at the very least for dog food making?

Micnima · November 21, 2006, 04:49 PM

Ya I'm a very new hunter and I noticed that with my first harvest. I thought it was gravity as well because I was standing on the side of a small hill, but they were doing exactly as you described.

If anyone knows it would sure be interesting.

Csspecs · November 21, 2006, 09:07 PM

My guess would be the guts reacting to the cold. The intestines do push the crap out right? If so I would say that is what they were doing.

Trip20 · November 21, 2006, 09:26 PM

Is it possible the gases are the cause of writhing guts?

I don't know for sure, just guessing myself. I've never had this happen.

I think the "second liver" is the spleen.

M14fan · November 21, 2006, 09:49 PM

How soon after the shot did you gut your deer. It may have been nerves still firing and causing the intestines to do what they do, Peristalsis. Many body systems do not stop functioning immediately upon death. Humans will often evacuate their bowels some time after actual death. No reason a deer will not do the same.

harleybabe69 · November 21, 2006, 11:34 PM

its the nerves in the intestinal walls dying - or could be gas vapors being released out of the body - the second liver that you are talking about, I believe is the spleen

rem33 · November 22, 2006, 12:44 AM

Zombie deer?

New one on me First. Kinda interesting.

FrontSight · November 22, 2006, 10:21 AM

I've seen that on every single rabbit my uncle would slaughter on his rabbit farm, even in the high heat of southern Italian summers. A very natural thing to occur, although I'm not sure of the scientific reason for it, but I bet it's a very basic explanation - muscles of the intestines still alive or just nervous system still going, something like that.

ENC · November 22, 2006, 03:34 PM

With any living multicellular being all parts "die" at different speeds. Just because the brain or heart is dead does not mean other organs are.

i.e. running like a chicken with its head cut off.

mrawesome22 · November 26, 2006, 01:47 AM

LOL This is not a joke. A guy I knew and another guy I knew bought two fighting cocks. This guy was absolutely crazy. Anyway, they tried to get them to fight and they wouldn't. So (I [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] you not) this guy picked this rooster up and tore his head off with his bare teeth. For about 2 weeks we would be over there drinking beer, and you would see this headless chicken run by. LOL I felt so bad for it and had no part in it, but it reminded me of making turtle soup. You can cut the heads off those turtles and they will move around for days. I don't know why, but they do.

Double Naught Spy · November 26, 2006, 07:34 AM

They don't know why either!

deerslayer79 · November 26, 2006, 03:48 PM

ha,zombie deer

,don't forget to shoot it in the head to really kill it.

castnblast · November 28, 2006, 11:16 AM

Those organs you are refering to...Are there two of them? If so, It's the kidneys. Same color, same texture. Like the liver, they make great catfish bait, or shark chum...

gak1 · November 28, 2006, 03:42 PM

9mm or .45 for zombie deer ?

FirstFreedom · November 28, 2006, 04:24 PM

I should've brought my silver bullets and heart stake. Ok, it's just a chicken-w/head-off, living-tissue type thing - makes sense. I don't think that the "second liver" are the kidneys, because there's only one. Shoulda harvested it, though, because even if it's not suitable for dog food, it'd make great catfish bait, as you say!

springmom · November 28, 2006, 04:54 PM

Do deer have gallbladders? In a human, the gallbladder is right next to the liver....

Springmom, who really DID pass zoology....

T. O'Heir · December 5, 2006, 10:50 PM

Took part in the summary execution of a chicken one time. Had two separated and not fed over night. One escaped when we opened the cage. They're fast those chickens. Took four of us to execute the remaining feathered dinner. Four city bozos. Me pulling the comb to stretch it's neck, two holding it still and the headsman. Anyway, after the head was off, I held it up to have a look. The chicken head blinked a couple of times then opened its mouth like it was screaming and was still.
Tasted like rattlesna....I'm kidding.
"...Do deer have gallbladders?..." No.

CobrayCommando · December 5, 2006, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Tasted like rattlesna....I'm kidding.

Haha!

Scorch · December 6, 2006, 12:46 PM

OK, here comes Biology 101.

* The movement of the guts is called peristalsis, and it will continue until the cells run out of energy. It's what moves stuff through the gut. Small, rhythmic contractions of smooth muscles (not controlled by voluntary nerve impulses). So, even if you shut dow the CNS by killing the deer, it will keep going for a while.

* Yes, deer have gall bladders, but the gall bladder is a small bag of green stuff firmly atached to the liver. The spleen is close to the liver and looks somewhat similar to the liver. It is flat and reddish. Kidneys are in their own little pouches along the spine.

The story of killing the chickens reminds me of watching a couple of city guys trying to kill a goat by stabbing it in the chest with a kitchen knife. Slow, but it eventually died. And it was a good thing because the noise was awful. But the goat did manage to get them pretty good a few times before it died. We tried to tell them to just slit its throat and let it go, but they weren't going to let anybody tell them what to do.

Fremmer · December 6, 2006, 01:19 PM

You know that you've field dressed a deer in a timely manner when the guts are still moving!

cgbills · December 11, 2006, 04:46 PM

Nerves still fire. I work in a lab were we do research in rats. I have pulled out a rat’s heart and watched it beat for a good 30 min after its death. My dad, who I work with, has had a dog heart that was frozen beat a few days after the dog’s death when he touched metal to it. The nerves fired again.

November 21, 2006, 03:13 PM	#1
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	Ever seen this phenomenon with deer guts? When I gutted this doe this weekend, after all guts removed, I'm sitting there staring at the gut pile, and as sure as I'm writing this, the small intestines are moving and writhing all over as if it were a pile of living worms. The deer seemed completely dead. I waited a few seconds to make sure it wasn't just gravity causing the intestines to shift, but it was something else - it kept up for over a minute before I went ahead and got up to start dragging. But it was very creepy - moving like snakes or worms. Ever seen this? This did not happen with this weekend's buck or other deer I've gotten. P.S. Can anyone tell me, among the deer internal organs, what in the heck is this organ which I have been calling (made up by me) the "second liver". It's not part of the liver, but it is exactly like it, only quite a bit smaller - it's separate from the liver itself, but the same color and texture - looks just like a single lobe off of the liver which has been separated. Should I start taking that too, at the very least for dog food making?

November 21, 2006, 09:49 PM	#5
M14fan Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 777	How soon after the shot did you gut your deer. It may have been nerves still firing and causing the intestines to do what they do, Peristalsis. Many body systems do not stop functioning immediately upon death. Humans will often evacuate their bowels some time after actual death. No reason a deer will not do the same. __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --George Washington

November 21, 2006, 11:34 PM	#6
harleybabe69 Member Join Date: November 21, 2006 Location: Nebraska Posts: 29	Ever seen this phenomenon with deer guts its the nerves in the intestinal walls dying - or could be gas vapors being released out of the body - the second liver that you are talking about, I believe is the spleen

November 26, 2006, 03:48 PM	#12
deerslayer79 Member Join Date: August 30, 2006 Location: Delmar,Maryland Posts: 87	ha,zombie deer ,don't forget to shoot it in the head to really kill it. __________________ beer,check ammo,check gun,Dammit I knew I forgot somethin !!!

November 28, 2006, 11:16 AM	#13
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	Those organs you are refering to...Are there two of them? If so, It's the kidneys. Same color, same texture. Like the liver, they make great catfish bait, or shark chum... __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

November 21, 2006, 04:49 PM	#2
Micnima Junior Member Join Date: October 31, 2006 Posts: 1	Ya I'm a very new hunter and I noticed that with my first harvest. I thought it was gravity as well because I was standing on the side of a small hill, but they were doing exactly as you described. If anyone knows it would sure be interesting.

November 21, 2006, 09:07 PM	#3
Csspecs Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Posts: 1,111	My guess would be the guts reacting to the cold. The intestines do push the crap out right? If so I would say that is what they were doing.

November 21, 2006, 09:26 PM	#4
Trip20 Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Posts: 2,181	Is it possible the gases are the cause of writhing guts? I don't know for sure, just guessing myself. I've never had this happen. I think the "second liver" is the spleen.

November 22, 2006, 12:44 AM	#7
rem33 Junior member Join Date: March 31, 2006 Posts: 1,528	Zombie deer? New one on me First. Kinda interesting.

November 22, 2006, 10:21 AM	#8
FrontSight Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2005 Posts: 1,712	I've seen that on every single rabbit my uncle would slaughter on his rabbit farm, even in the high heat of southern Italian summers. A very natural thing to occur, although I'm not sure of the scientific reason for it, but I bet it's a very basic explanation - muscles of the intestines still alive or just nervous system still going, something like that.

November 22, 2006, 03:34 PM	#9
ENC Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Location: Grand Lake, OK Posts: 658	With any living multicellular being all parts "die" at different speeds. Just because the brain or heart is dead does not mean other organs are. i.e. running like a chicken with its head cut off.

November 26, 2006, 01:47 AM	#10
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	LOL This is not a joke. A guy I knew and another guy I knew bought two fighting cocks. This guy was absolutely crazy. Anyway, they tried to get them to fight and they wouldn't. So (I [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] you not) this guy picked this rooster up and tore his head off with his bare teeth. For about 2 weeks we would be over there drinking beer, and you would see this headless chicken run by. LOL I felt so bad for it and had no part in it, but it reminded me of making turtle soup. You can cut the heads off those turtles and they will move around for days. I don't know why, but they do.

November 26, 2006, 07:34 AM	#11
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,716	They don't know why either!

November 28, 2006, 03:42 PM	#14
gak1 Member Join Date: July 19, 2006 Posts: 52	9mm or .45 for zombie deer ?

November 28, 2006, 04:24 PM	#15
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	I should've brought my silver bullets and heart stake. Ok, it's just a chicken-w/head-off, living-tissue type thing - makes sense. I don't think that the "second liver" are the kidneys, because there's only one. Shoulda harvested it, though, because even if it's not suitable for dog food, it'd make great catfish bait, as you say!

November 28, 2006, 04:54 PM	#16
springmom Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2005 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,823	Do deer have gallbladders? In a human, the gallbladder is right next to the liver.... Springmom, who really DID pass zoology.... __________________ I will not be a victim home on the web: www.panagia-icons.net (my webpage) www.nousfromspring.blogspot.com (Orthodoxy) "I couldn't hear you. Stop firing the gun while you're talking!" Frank Drebin, The Naked Gun

December 5, 2006, 10:50 PM	#17
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Took part in the summary execution of a chicken one time. Had two separated and not fed over night. One escaped when we opened the cage. They're fast those chickens. Took four of us to execute the remaining feathered dinner. Four city bozos. Me pulling the comb to stretch it's neck, two holding it still and the headsman. Anyway, after the head was off, I held it up to have a look. The chicken head blinked a couple of times then opened its mouth like it was screaming and was still. Tasted like rattlesna....I'm kidding. "...Do deer have gallbladders?..." No.

December 6, 2006, 12:46 PM	#19
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	OK, here comes Biology 101. * The movement of the guts is called peristalsis, and it will continue until the cells run out of energy. It's what moves stuff through the gut. Small, rhythmic contractions of smooth muscles (not controlled by voluntary nerve impulses). So, even if you shut dow the CNS by killing the deer, it will keep going for a while. * Yes, deer have gall bladders, but the gall bladder is a small bag of green stuff firmly atached to the liver. The spleen is close to the liver and looks somewhat similar to the liver. It is flat and reddish. Kidneys are in their own little pouches along the spine. The story of killing the chickens reminds me of watching a couple of city guys trying to kill a goat by stabbing it in the chest with a kitchen knife. Slow, but it eventually died. And it was a good thing because the noise was awful. But the goat did manage to get them pretty good a few times before it died. We tried to tell them to just slit its throat and let it go, but they weren't going to let anybody tell them what to do. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

December 6, 2006, 01:19 PM	#20
Fremmer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 3,482	You know that you've field dressed a deer in a timely manner when the guts are still moving!

December 11, 2006, 04:46 PM	#21
cgbills Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2006 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 274	Nerves still fire. I work in a lab were we do research in rats. I have pulled out a rat’s heart and watched it beat for a good 30 min after its death. My dad, who I work with, has had a dog heart that was frozen beat a few days after the dog’s death when he touched metal to it. The nerves fired again.

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