Hawken Cal .45

[SixGunRookie]

I am completely new to this forum and would like to say 'Hi!' to you all.
The reason why I am here ist that a couple of days ago a was lucky to buy a replica of a BP rifle 'Hawken Cal 45'. It came from a liquidation of a collection and spent its 20 years of existance put up on a wall and was never fired (so they say). Indeed I couldn't find any traces of BP discharges on the rifle, it's lock and the barrel. Besides some minor rusty spots at and around the trigger, it is in a pretty great shape. Only the nipple is mushroomed, presumably from one too many 'trigger-actions' without a cap on the nipple.
The brass parts of the gun where all greenish brown from oxidation and the wooden parts a bit dirty from all the years without proper cleaning. Nothing serious that couldn't be fixed with a good wash and oiling of the wooden and metal parts and some good brass polish.
Initially I have only bought it to put it up again on display on my studywall, but as I really got close with it cleaning, dis- and reassembling the parts, a desire grew to put this nice gun to real action after all.
Since I haven't been in guns business since my service with the army a couple of years ago and never having fired a single shot from a BP muzzleloader before, I get more and more exited to change this situation.
Here in Germany it is a bit awkward to get into the gun sports and especially BP shooting because one has to be active member in an approved gun club for some time before one can buy guns and ammunition only to be used at a shooting clubs compound. Single shot muzzleloaders are free to be bought by any adult older than 18ys, but to obtain BP again one has to be member of a gunclub for a length of time and have successfully passed an instruction course of handling BP and alike. So this will be my next challenge for the new year.

Following I will post the links to some photographs I took, that shows how the gun looks at the moment, unfinished as it is.
Concerning the gun I have some questions for you, the experts.
The barrel shows a couple of markings I have no idea, what the mean and the engraved name of the gunsmith 'Ranson Italia spa' I have never heared of and could not even find any information on the internet. It would be great if you could give me some advice concerning this and also your judgment about the gun and if it is worth to be made working. Thanks a lot for your help!

[Hardcase]

Welcome aboard, SixGunRookie!

Ranson Italia went out of business about 30 years ago. They were one of the manufacturers in the Brescia region of Italy. I hear that they were pretty big in the reproduction Zouave rifle business back in the '70s. Here in the US, Navy Arms used to import them. The various barrel markings are the proof stamps that show that the gun was tested to Italian proof standards. The "CA" in the square is the date code that shows that the gun was made in 1977.

It looks very nice, especially for a 34 year old black powder rifle! Best of luck in your quest to shoot it. It's a shame that our sport is so restricted in your neck of the woods.

[Hawg]

It's an Italian "Hawken" made by Ranson in 1977. Should be a fairly decent shooter. Value will be in the 150.00-200.00 range.

Looks like Hardcase beat me to the punch.

[SixGunRookie]

Thanks a lot for this great information!
So, my gun is definitely much older than presumed.
I was told, it was about 20 years old. But, 34 years....! Hmm! Pretty good in shape for her age this lady.
I will report here when she is a virgin no more .
This will take some time. Maybe sometime next spring.

The money I payed for the gun was € 150,-- which is about $ 200,--
So she better does something more for her price than just hanging around on a wall.

[Pahoo]

Very nice "Sidlock" just waiting to be shot and a .45 at that !!. ....


Be Safe !!!

[arcticap]

The marking that's similar to the letters "FWW" may be the German importer's stamp.
The rifle looks very similar to an Investarms Hawken, especially the patchbox.
Depending on the location, some Germans hunt roe deer using muzzle loaders.

[SixGunRookie]

At the moment I'm wondering about the correct charge to be applied with this gun.
From what I've picked up in various threads I should use 2Fg BP. Somtimes ppl said they would use 3Fg, others said this is too fine and only good for handguns.
Taking all into account I would go for 2Fg BP. Is hat correct? Any objections?
Using the rule of 1gr of BP per unit of caliber would mean in this case 45gr of BP. Mostly ppl tend to add up a bit. So, what do you think how much would be too much for my gun and how many gr would just be right to do the most accurate shooting?
Thanks for your advice!

[wogpotter]

From the manual for my CVA imported Spanish built Hawken:
"45 calibre: 0.440" round ball, 0.015" lubed patch, 50~80 Gr FFg." I can't see your rifle differing massively from that, but always start low & work up.

.45 seems to be right on the dividing line between FFg & FFFg so you could probably use either, but if you switch from one to the other work up from the bottom again as it might have a different spot where the charge weight is most accurate.

[Gbro]

I also shoot a .45 cal muzzle loader. I use a .437 dia round ball and a .015 patch. a .440 round ball is to big for my rifle and the .015 patch, SPIT-Patch if just plinking and a lubed patch for hunting.
I can shoot all day without cleaning or swabbing the bore using a spit-patch.
I shoot 60 grs of FFFg but I am shooting a flintlock.
40 grains in a flintlock = 40 yards and the bullet hits the ground
This pic is a Grandson at 8 years old shooting 55 Grains of FFg.

[mykeal]

I'm wondering about the correct charge to be applied with this gun

There is no 'correct' load, at least, not one that applies to all .45 cal guns. You need to develop the 'correct' load for your gun by testing. Shoot 3 to 5 shot groups with loads increasing in 5 grain increments from 45 to a point where the groups start opening back up (probably around 90 or even higher). The 'correct' load is the one that shoots the smallest 3 to 5 shot group.

[zullo74]

Start your load search with 45 grains of 3F or 2F and work up until you get the best accuracy. At some point (usually over 60 grains for .45 caliber) accuracy will start to drop off.

[Pahoo]

The general rule of thumb for a rifle, Caliber for min load and Caliber x2, for the max load. In your case, that would be 45grns. and 90grns. Now then, somewhere in between you will find you optimum target and hunting load. Personally, I would go with FFFG but this too is your call. I seldom if ever, use pellets but then again, that is my call, for me. ....

Just curious but have you identified your twist? This might be stamped somewhere on your barrel. .....

Be Safe !!!

[B.L.E.]

You can also measure the twist by putting a tight cleaning patch on a jag and seeing how far you have to pull out the ramrod before it makes a complete turn. If the rifling makes about a half of a turn or less in the length of the barrel, it's pretty much optimum for patched round ball shooting. If it makes a complete turn in the barrel, it's for bullets. A lot of replica muzzleloaders from that era had a "compromise" 1 in 48" twist which was supposed to be slow enough for round balls yet fast enough for lighter bullets such as the TC MaxiBall.
FFFg or FFg, it's not just the caliber, it's also the load. FFg for the heaviest charges and FFFg for the lighter target loads.

[Hawg]

Put a tight fitting patch on your ramrod and run it down the bore. Mark it at the muzzle in line with the front sight with a sharpie or tape. Pull it out until it makes a half turn and mark it again. Measure between the marks and multiply X two. If it won't make a half turn do a quarter turn and multiply X 4.

[Gehrhard]

Pahoo +1

Sehr schoen! Ich habe ein T/C .50.

And, please buy a non-breakable ramrod and use that -- save the wooden one for when you retire and do just hang that on a wall!

Be safe and enjoy.

[B.L.E.]

If the rifling makes one turn in 150 to 180 centimeters, it's strickly a patched round ball barrel.
A 30 yr old muzzleloader probably has that or the compromise 120 cm twist. Fast bullet twists were not common until the modern inlines took over.

[Hawg]

There were a lot of 1:48's back in the day.

[SixGunRookie]

Thank you very much for all the hints and good advice.

@Gerhard
Of course I have aleady bought a sturdy ramrod. In fact it is a combination of a ramrod and cleaning-/maintenance utility made of brass with a wooden knob.

[SixGunRookie]

Today was THE day! What shall I say...but WOW!!!

After I have joined a local gun club last week, I found there a compassionate soul of an old muzzle loader who was willing to spend an afternoon with me to try out my Hawken and also donate some of his precious BP. Remember, over here you only can buy that stuff after you've successfully completed a BP-course which I haven't done by now.
After some adjustments were done, we tried the first couple of shots on 30 yards, just to see how it works out. Well....awesome!
That deep and somehow smooth sound was really great! It wasn't far as loud as I had expected it and also the recoil was almost gentle compared to what I have experienced with modern rifles, but there was plenty of smoke.
After some more adjustments to the sights we set the target to 50 and later 75 yards and I was really impressed how the gun worked. Although there will have to be more training to hit the center regulary, almost all of the hits were placed within a fairly small circle on the target which shows that thze gun works quite steady when fired with identical loads . Today we started of with loads of 40 grains FFG and later went to 45 grains, which is also the unit of the caliber of the gun. Altogether we fired about 40 shots until it got dark. Next week we will do some more testing with variable loads and target distances. - I really can't wait for next saturday!

[Gehrhard]

Good for you! Huzzah!!!