Primer questions?

[smitty77]

I am sure that this has been asked a hundred times, but I can't find the info. Some reloading guides use CCI primers some use Winchester and some use Federal. And to confuse me even more some are match primers. Other than magnum and none magnum, are primers of different brands interchangeable?

[zxcvbob]

Other than magnum and none marnum, are primers of different brands interchangeable?

Yes, until you get to the extreme top end (or sometimes the low end) of the reloading data.

I've also heard accounts (from people who would have no reason to lie) that some rifles shoot much more accurately with one brand of primer over another. You just have to find out what you and your guns like. That's part of the fun of reloading.

[Loader9]

Not really interchangable. Primers are rated by their brisance or power, if you will. Here's a chart of a non-scientific nature that shows there are differences between primers intended for the same cartridge.
http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_t..._reference.htm

When a magnum primer is recommended, I suggest using one. But if it is different than the one listed in the manual, I don't worry about it unless I'm at the top of the loading data. Then I watch for signs of pressure. Once the load has been worked up and I'm happy with it, all components/data stay the same and in some cases, I put back components of the same lot number for specific guns. But to change a primer after working up a max load is a recipe for disaster. There's not much tellin' what will happen. It may be fine and then again, you might end up wearing the action. When shooting for accuracy, the name of the game is the same- meaning doing the identical same thing over and over. You want to load IDENTICAL ammo, under IDENTICAL conditions, and pull the trigger at the IDENTICAL same time with the IDENTICAL sight picture.

[ShootingNut]

In my opinion and experience, Primers are the least of my concern when it comes to pistol loads. Simple, I choose to use Winchester WSP, WLP, WSPM, and that covers me 9mm up to my .45 ACP loading including the .357 Magnum.
So, keeping my powder loads within the presribed start/max range, no problem.
Regards,
SN

[steve4102]

Published load data is not a recipe and should not be treated as such. It is only a set of guidelines. It is not possible to follow load data to the letter. It simply cannot be done. To many variables involved. The number one variable being the firearm itself.

Like I said load data is not a recipe. Therefore, you are free to use a different brand of primer or a different headstamp brass and even a different bullet of the same weight when working up a load. You must however always, always start low and work up looking for signs of high pressure along the way. Also any time you change a component be it brand, lot number or type you should back your charge down and work back up looking for signs of pressure.

[rn22723]

I am sure that this has been asked a hundred times, but I can't find the info. Some reloading guides use CCI primers some use Winchester and some use Federal. And to confuse me even more some are match primers. Other than magnum and none magnum, are primers of different brands interchangeable?

In simple terms no you can not swap primers indiscriminately. You have to rework up the load, because you change one of the paraters. There are many more qualifications one could make. But, the best advice is for you follow the loading data to the minute detail This is really important when you load rifle rounds. Especially larger cased cartridges. The internal volumes and case wt can vary enough to cause issues!

There are reasons for swapping out primers, in some handguns ie SW revolvers a lighten trigger pull will almost mean you are married to using Federal primers, as they are easiet to light off.

[Shoney]

smitty77: It's your first post and noone has said
WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!!!!!

There are a lot of conflicting statements above. Here is what my 48 years reloading have taught me.

Yes! You can switch from one primer brand to another as long as you use the same size, i.e. Large Rifle for Large Rifle; Small Pistol for Small Pistol; and so on, DO NOT SUBSTITUTE A MAGNUM FOR A STANDARD. If the load you are switching primers on is at/near the max, you may want to back down a few grains and work up to max again.

I have often worked up an accuracy load using one brand of primer, then switched brands to see what happens. Sometimes, by only changing the primer, group sizes may increase, decrease or remain the same.

Here are a couple of sites where you can cross reference and read up on primers.
http://www.handloads.com/misc/primers.asp
http://www.lasc.us/primerchart.htm

Good Shooting!

[ShootingNut]

+1 Shoney
By using the correct primer as you say, you won't get into any "trouble".
Some like you, have choosen to "tweak" around primer brands still using the correct primer, to study accuracy influences.
Regards,
SN

[Gun 4 Fun]

+2 Shoney- I will just add that alot of people use magnum primers in ALL magnum handgun loads, and it's not always advisable. For instance, Alliant 2400 is used in magnum loads a lot. Alliant recommends only using standard primers for this powder. Using magnum primers can cause excessive pressures with this powder. Stick to what the manufacturer says. Welcome to the forum smitty77.

[Shoney]

Another question that some of the above posters discussed was the use of Magnum Primers to replace Standard Primers. I have done a bit of experimentation on using Magnum where Standard was called for.

CAUTION: The following loading data may produce pressures beyond currently published maximums for any given cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Pistol
I have substituted Mag Primers for Standard in a lot of pistols, with the result that I now follow the recipes recommended primer size. I could not tell any difference in accuracy by switching between Mag and Standard, while in some applications, pressure was way up.

Rifle
Changing Magnums for Standard in rifle cartridges seems to work best when using ball powders, and had questionable or dangerous results with extruded powders in some cartridges.

In all cases of substitution I always start at the lower minimum charge and work up, carefully watching velocity and pressure changes. Generally, repeat generally, I get more accurate loads with ball powders when using Mag Primers instead of Standard primers.

In some cartridges, when using the slower extruded powders with Mag Primers, I have achieved the more accurate loads than with Standard primers.

If you plan to substitute, be aware that pressures could spike at any given time. I have always increased charges by very small amounts when experimenting.

Good Shooting!

[Chief-7700]

Winchester large pistol primers state on the box for use for both standard and mag loads.
Chief

[amamnn]

Using a Federal small rifle match primer rather than say, a CCI standard primer in a load that's to be shot in a factory rifle will most likely not make any discernible difference to the shooter. If you shoot a lot of brand A or brand B you get an idea about how good their QC is. Match primers will be more consistent, as a rule. If you are going to be shooting a rifle that is built to very high quality and tight tolerances, primer quality, selection, and seating become much more important, but not in themselves a make or break item. Working with primers to uniform that part of the cartridge is one part among the dozens of things precision shooters do to increase accuracy.

On one hand it makes sense when people say primer ignition is the first part of the chain of events leading to the bullet striking the target and therefore extra special care should be taken in working with it. On the other hand a gentleman by the name of Cody Finch holds (still, I believe) the world's record 1000 yard BR group. He shot it using CCI standard primers, which are the only primers I've ever had proven to fail to fire and/or have insufficient stryphate in them to ignite a powder charge completely. Go figure..

[pwr314]

Here's some additional information:

The Lee hand priming tool recommends you only use the following with it:

These sizes may be used with 100 primers in the tray:
All CCI brand primers
Winchester small pistol
Remington small pistol
Remington large pistol

Limit to only 20 primers in the tray of theses types:
Winchester large pistol
Winchester Magnum pistol
Winchester magnum rifle

Only 10 primers should be loaded in the tray of:
Winchester large rifle

Do not use federal primers in Lee Auto-Prime!

In the second edition of Modern Reloading by Richard Lee he explains that there are 2 types of priming coumpound. One is called "basic" and the other "normal". He claims an accidental discharge of those which use basic is much more violent (implying that they are less safe).

[Hawg]

I never saw the need to use magnum primers in anything. Federals are the softest and easiest to set off. CCI's are hardest followed by Winchester and Remington. I use CCI's and Winchesters when CCI's aren't available.

[wpcexpert]

Here is a thread that I learned from...Similar questions...


http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=310070

[wncchester]

It's true that changing brands of primers (not types) can be done safely. If such a change results in a KABOOM, the load was FAR too hot to begin with!

[smitty77]

First I would like to say thank you for all the responses to my question. Maybe a little more info will help everyone answer the question. I am shooting a .300 Weatherby and the cost of ammo has brought on the interest in the hobby. The main reason for reloading is to save money, accuracy is important but the vitals on an elk are large enough for me to hit.(When I can find one to shoot at) So the main aspect of the question is whether a primer of one brand is safe to use in place of another.i.e. WLRM in place of Fed 215

[steve4102]

YES, as long as you work up. If you change brands in midsteam back down and work back up.

[Alaska-Bush-Man]

Primers The .223 Remington uses a Small Rifle primer. In a bolt gun you'll get good results from all the major brands: CCI, Federal, Remington, Winchester. The Rem 7 1/2s work very well with both stick and ball powders. Benchresters have shown a bias towards the Federal 205M (match), but in our informal testing, the CCI BR4s shot just as well as the Federals, while the CCIs delivered lower ES/SD with some powders. In fact, we've found that the "plain Jane" CCI 400s were closely matched with the much more expensive BR4s. Both can deliver good accuracy with low ES and SD. (Currently, at Powder Valley, CCI 400s cost $19.00 per thousand, while CCI BR4s cost $29.50 per thousand.) Some primers do seem to work better with particular powder/bullet combinations, so it's wise to do your own testing, and you may want to test CCI 400s vs. CCI BR4s head to head. You may find that the cheaper CCI 400s work just as well as the pricey BR4s in your gun.

For use in semi-automatics and AR15s, we advise that you stick to CCI and Remington primers. These brands have harder cups and are much less likely to pierce primers. Also, the AR15 has a free-floating firing pin that dents the primer on loading. This creates a risk of slam fires. So you want hard primer cups. The latest generation of Winchester primers, with brass-colored cups, should be avoided for AR15 use. The old silver Winchester primers worked fine, but the current WSRs are soft and can be pierced more easily than CCI or Rem primers. A poll of Highpower competitors (mostly shooting ARs) showed that Rem 7 1/2 primers are the most popular (33.23%), followed by CCIs (25.78%). The majority of CCI users favored the CCI BR4s, but both CCI 400s (small rifle standard) and CCI 450s (small rifle magnum) were also popular. Only 10.25% of Highpower shooters polled used Federal primers (either 205M or 205). At the time of the poll, many shooters reported using WSRs, but this was the older version with silver cups. See NationalMatch.us website for complete poll results.

Different Primers manufactures make primers different so the flash will be hotter or cooler, this will effect the rate of burn on the powder charge. The main thing consistant with reloading. If you are using a 30-06 then use one primer type for large rifle and stick with it. Some primers will provide better accuarcy with the same load.....you will have to sample. If you change primers don't expect the same vel or maybe accuracy.

[micali]

wheres a good place to buy the primers?

[Shoney]

micali
Unless you are buying 5000 or more primers at a time, mail order gets a $20 HazMat fee tacked on. edit ERROR see expanation in post 23 below.

So if you are not going to buy in 5k lots, you are better off buying locally.

Powder Valley usually has the better prices but others may have great prices on specials.

http://powdervalleyinc.com/
http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html
http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.htm

[HisSoldier]

Shoney,
I looked at all of the sites you gave and can't see where 5K primers are hazmat $$ free. Where does it say that? I especially want to buy from Powder Valley as they have ultra cheap Wolf primers. Thanks

[Shoney]

HisSoldier
Sorry~ I didn't mean to say they were free of Hazmat charge. I meant that you have to buy in 5K lots in order to even out the additional charge of the Hazmat fee.

A thousand primers plus $20 Hazmat plus shipping charges will average more than you can buy locally, usually.

Hope that clears that up.

[HisSoldier]

Thanks Shoney.